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CS6 Pantone Plus Library Issues

Forum|Forum|13 years ago
September 11, 2012
9 replies
94601 views

We are having problems maintaining color consistency for digital output (as well as color shifts on proofs) due to the recent CS6 Pantone Plus color library update.
We have had to remove the updated libraries and replace them with the previous versions due to the unexpected color differences on output.

Has anyone else been having problems with the Plus update?
Is there a good explanation of why it was changed in the first place? We want to make sure we're not missing a good reason for the revised color libraries.
Chuck

This topic has been closed for replies.

D

ddrtatsujin

Participant

I'm having trouble getting the numbers in: type 540 into pantone+ and it produces 5405.

This is consistently happening with nearly all the 540-550 numbers, why would the programming dictate the number that I input? Why would a thousand number come up before a hundred number? why wouldn't I just get a null answer instead? Why is the search window so small and why am I unable to re-size it? Why, why, why? Use the product then release it to the public. This is such a lack of vision.

J

JuanaIsaac

Participant

Hi Chuck,

We are facing some of the same issues now and honestly we might go back to the old libraries especially if a client approved color is completely different than what we had before.

Here are some of the differences that I know of...

The features of the “Pantone Plus or Pantone +” library":

Old library had 1,114 colors
- Pantone + library started with 1,341 and added 336 colors later now totally to 1,677
- Colors are now arranged chromatically instead of numerically but if you need to search the number, you can follow the numerical index in the back to locate the new colors
- Printed on thinner stock since most folks print on text stock also FSC certified
Includes:
- Formula Guide – with printer formula guides
- Pantone Plus Premium Metallics uses a fine grain silver that allows for varnish application, without sling the lustre like the old metallics
- Pantone Plus new Pastels and Neons

Current Issues:

The math build to the colors have changed from the old library to the new library
- Adobe apps used a profile of CMYK Values supplied by Pantone, however those values are no longer working
- Pantone Plus colors are now described by Lab values, which is not specific to any device or limited to CMYK values,
  so you will notice that if you are reprinting a job, colors will not match the old job
- So if you pick a PMS, it is based on a lab color so when you convert to CMYK it will not match the CMYK formula
Differences in ColorBridge
- New version will have different CMYK recipes
- Reflects improvement in pigments and the computerized press controls so completely different values

P

paul_tech

Participating Frequently

Wow this still isn’t resolved???

This is one of the main reasons our studio has been dragging its heels upgrading to CS6, CC CC2014.

We have licenses for all but can’t use it in a production environment!

Yes, Pantone has tweaked some colours CMYK values to better represent todays technology...we can live with that.

We cannot live with the fact that if we open up old legacy artwork that Pantone colors are shifting due to the LAB interpretations and restrictions in Adobe!

There used to be the option to keep values in CMYK in a spot color. This is handy to have in cases where the color has to be converted to process from spot. A simple cut and paste destroys CMYK!

The values for LAB are all out of sync depending on how a users monitor/color profile is set. We get decimal tints looking like .38% 5.24% 99.36% !!!!! WTF?

The color bridge CMYK Fan books have more realistic tints. And another thing....some of the new color bridge books arent searchable when you type in a pantone number in photoshop!

This has to be affecting other studios and film shops out there?!?! Not sure how we move forward with Adobe.

A

Anonymous

The way that i create new files in CS6 using old swatches is by template. I have an Illustrator template set up with old Pantone coated swatches. When I: Go to file - open from template - choose file - then i can create a new file using the old swatches that can also convert to the old CMYK no problem. I can open a new CS6 file containing Pantone plus swatches and copy paste the artwork into the new file (from template file) and it will auto convert to old pantone swatches. It does not recognise all the extra new Pantone PLUS swatches though and they will remain LAB.

I work with old illustrator legend artwork and new illustrator artwork so this works great for me. If you would like a copy of the template file to try - download from here: http://www.filedropper.com/tommyrossswatchcoatedwithfoil

cheers

Tommy

S

SteveVidsxh588

Participant

The problem with the Lab conversion to CMYK is that when you get a darker colour it will not use Key until it hits over 50% of Cyan. So the end result for the poor printers is 4 colours flooding onto a sheet that could theoretically be on Cyan and Key. Take PMS 431 on the CMYK conversion in the old Indesign it was 11C, 1M, 64K. In the CC version, it's 63.28C, 47.01M, 40.04Y, 27.69K. The second breakdown in values will lead to paper stretch on the press if you have an overall background. The other thing is that it don't actually specify what profile setting is being converted through. Is it on perceptual or absolute?

Not good really.

B

Brettannica

Participant

Guys we have had the same problem (colour shifting) with our large format printer.

However, Adobe has addressed the issue by changing the Colour books as follows. It does not change spot to LAB, it keeps it as CMYK value as it was in CS5.

http://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/kb/pantone-plus.html

Hope this helps. Let me know how you go.

Cheers.

A

ajarmedia

Participant

Here's the workaround I used from http://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/kb/pantone-plus.html

Workaround 1: Replace Pantone Plus with older Pantone color books
Adobe InDesign CS6:
+ Quit the application
+ From the folder Adobe InDesign CS6/Presets/Swatch Libraries/, remove all the libraries that have names starting with Pantone+
+ From any older version of Adobe InDesign (CS2 - CS5) copy all the Pantone libraries with extension .acb and place into: Adobe InDesign CS6/Presets/Swatch Libraries/
+ Similarly, copy all Pantone libraries with extension .acbl and place into: Adobe InDesign CS6/Presets/Swatch Libraries/Legacy/
+ Restart your application

My original, desired color libraries have returned, but now I have two new problems:

1. The colors, while displaying in InDesign the way I want them to, are now inexplicably exporting improperly (see Fig.1: InDesign layout on top, PDF export below -- even the letters set to Paper [white] are incorrect).

Fig.1

2. Also, the swatch libraries are now duplicating every time I launch InDesign (Fig.2), even though there are only two main swatch libraries (Fig.3), plus the legacy folder.

Fig.2
Fig.3

I don't know how to resolve either of these problems, which are road blocks to all of my current projects.

A

ajarmedia

Participant

I've figured out the solution to problem No. 1:

Launch InDesign CS4 (if you still have it, like I do) and Save the Color Settings (Edit menu). Load those settings in InDesign CS6 and your ability to export should be corrected and operate as it used to. (This is what worked for me.)

However, I still have no idea how to stop the color swatch libraries from duplicating every time I create a New Color Swatch. I am up to eight copies appearing in the list now, even though there are still only two libraries in the CS6 folder.

D

d588ga2

Participant

I've read through this entire post and if anyone has to go through this much effort to maintain color consistancy after an application upgrade then it's pretty pretentious for Adobe or Pantone to want us to use their products. It is a matter of opinion as to whether LAB manages colors better than SPOT or CMYK, that is up to the user workflow and the options should have been left open, OR (and maybe I missed it) Adobe could have announced Pantone was changing its library color build. Either way it is a huge burden on the users that support these products. At any rate...

I immedietely noticed the change in the CMYK build in the Pantone libraries from CS5 to CS6, and even though my RIP is set up to manage the final output for select spot colors my print operators noticed the color variation on their screen and began QC'ing all the art. The only way I've found to fix it is to go into the swatch library and manually change the SPOT colors back to the original build. This will default an error on Pre-Flight but as long as you know you've creating the error you can just ignore it. Sure your RIP can catch the color and convert it to the correct usable workspace. But anyone in this business knows how much time it take to color calibrate these machines and expecting anyone has the time to do this in the middle of running a print business hasn't spent enough time on the ground to understand that's just stupid. I don't want to have to set up a BETA workstation to test Adobe products for potential workflow errors on future version releases, but thats better than shutting down a print facility and wasting material trying to catch up to something that probably didn't need changed...just saying.

B

bullet_proof_

Participant

Check out this page on Adobe help site:

http://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/kb/pantone-plus.html#main-pars_text_11

You'll see that with the release of Pantone+ series, Pantone switched to L*a*b color model definitions, and no longer defined pantone swatches in CMYK, so you can't place all blame on Adobe. Pantone seems to switch CMYK builds even within their own swatches, compare previous Pantone builds with what they released in Pantone Color Bridge builds, they don't match.

However I would like an EASIER option to continue to use the CMYK definitions - the current workaround is cumbersome and still doesn't address all issues with handlinig files coming from external clients who may use the new Pantone+ series definitions.

C

CirenaFay

Participant

I jumped to get AI CS6 as soon as it came out- and now, honestly, I'm regretting it.

We do large digital output, and PMS spot colors are critical. I'm finding that anything I copy into a new doc, converts to lab- and I have to manually plug in the CMYK mixes for the spot colors. It's taking a ton of time that I wouldnt otherwise have;

If you find the magic bullet, please share it with the class.

L

Louis_Dery

Participating Frequently

Hello CirenaFay,

I dont’t understand the issue… what do you mean by "anything i copy into new document" ?

And why do you have to manually change the CMYK value?

You say that you do large format printing. Do you have a RIP? Which one? Compatible with pantone libraries?

Please tell me more so that I could help you .

Regards,

Louis

L

Louis_Dery

Participating Frequently

Hello Chuck,

Pantone Plus (Solid) color libraries are now based on Lab value compared to previous one using CMYK as default in Illustrator And InDesign.

Lab values help to keep consistency between Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign when you want to convert to CMYK.

Each application are doing a color transform like this: Source (Lab) -> Destination (CMYK or RGB) using the related working color space defined in the color setings preferences.

This make sure that when you convert to CMYK for example, the best match will be made for the current CMYK working space you are using.

If you set all your color setings the same within each application, you will get the same CMYK values.

Can you tel me more about the problem you have with the new Pantone Plus libraries?

Louis

C

ChuckCordesAuthor

Participating Frequently

Thanks Louis,

The problem is during digital color output.

Not only do the PMS colors appear differently on the screen, but they also print differently as well (washed out usually.)
I'm willing to change my color settings in InDesign and Illustrator, but I have to maintain consistency for our customers.
Can you give me a simple explanation of how to do this without effecting colors on my previous color jobs (digital color output) which I may have to print again in the future?
Thanks,

Chuck

A

Anonymous

It shouldn't matter if the "source" is LAB or not, color conversion is done in the Print driver or, in a more color matched, color calibrated environment, a RIP. If someone like Chuch has to manually insert the numbers he wants, it defearts the p[urpose of creating a LAB workflow. I wonder if Louis can direct us toward some type of White paper released by Pantone that explains all this ssshhhiiiituff. From what I understand, Pantone Spot Colors are converted in a RIP which has been created to convert to LAB in order to match the Spot Color as close as the output device can. But, all this trouble with display inaccuracies and errors, as well as output diffusion of color sounds like a nightmare. I am having trouble with the color consistency theory using LAB source color, when previous color libraries worked fine. I guess I'm missing something.

A

Anonymous

I've read people posting they have no problems with CS6 and the Plus Series. I've also seen posts of people having problems, like you. It's unfortunate for anyone to experience such a mess and have to revert back to a system that works the way it should. Sounds a bit backwards, doesn't it?

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