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Question

Color Management Issue Photoshop

Forum|Forum|2 years ago
January 8, 2024
2 replies
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I have a very peculiar color managment issue I thought might be intersting to discuss, I am thankful for all the intel I may get.

I recently calibrated my monitors, a BenQ SW270C and A BenQ 2700 with my SpyderX5.

Afterwards the display of the same image in different applications was varied.

Whilst my Adobe RGB Masterfiles looked flat in Photoshop their sRGB Files (no color manegment saved) looked as saturated as they where supposed to in PS and Firefox. In Chrome I had to force the monitor profile to make them appear as intended. However I was bummed out by the fact that there was a difference between the master file and the saved sRGB export which never had been distinguishable before I did the monitor calibration.

To wipe the slate clean I simply deleted the monitor profiles. Now the problems have sort of reversed. Without the monitor profile Photoshop seems to oversaturate my sRGB export files whilst the Windows Preview, Firefox and Chrome show the image the same and alike what Photoshop shows my masterfiles to look like. Interestingly enough, when I export one of my masterfiles into sRGB and then open the file in photoshop the colors again look oversatureated. I wonder how to fix this so that at least all the files look the same again for starters.

Slowly, I am starting to confuse what the files are supposed to look like in the first place.

Oh, I use PS 25.0.0 and Win10.

Windows

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c.pfaffenbichler

Community Expert

Just to make sure: What are the Edit > Color Settings?

Nicolas Alexander OttoAuthor

Known Participant

Here you go, I think this is the correct managment for editing in Adobe RGB on Wide Gamut Screen and then export in sRGB later.

davescm

Community Expert

Change RGB to 'Preserve embedded profiles' and check Missing Profiles 'Ask when opening' that way you will get a warning if you download an image from your website with no profile embedded.

That does not change any of the advice given earlier though

Dave

D Fosse

Community Expert

I suspect the Adobe RGB file displayed in Photoshop, which you describe as "flat", is in fact the correct representation.

Everything else can be explained by missing color management on a wide gamut monitor which the SW270 is.

On a wide gamut monitor without color management, sRGB will be oversaturated. That part is normal. It's also normal that the same thing happens if you delete you monitor profile, because it then gets replaced by sRGB. That's the wrong profile for that monitor. Same result.

Never, ever, save a file without an embedded profile. Never.

But that's what you did. In that case Firefox will, at default settings, display without any color management at all - oversaturated.

To sum up: when you have a wide gamut monitor, you must have full color management at all times. You must embed the profile, you must have a valid and correct monitor profile - and you can only use applications that have full color management support. That's the long and short of it.

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(At first I thought this was the usual buggy BenQ software - because it is, and has been for a long time, unless they've fixed it recently. There's been a flood of reports of problems with the BenQ software over many years. I've also noticed that Spyders have a somewhat poor reputation, but I'm not so sure about the validity of that. I take that with a grain of salt. I don't have any direct experience with either.

Anyway, when I read closer, it occurred to me that this all sounds like expected behavior. You just mistakenly assume that the oversaturated version is how it should be. But I don't think so.)

Nicolas Alexander OttoAuthor

Known Participant

"On a wide gamut monitor without color management, sRGB will be oversaturated. That part is normal. It's also normal that the same thing happens if you delete you monitor profile, because it then gets replaced by sRGB. That's the wrong profile for that monitor. Same result."

Well, both monitors are currently set to Adobe RGB. And other than Photoshop the sRGB Files look correct now (or at least like the Adobe RGB Files does in PS), which puzzles me.

"Never, ever, save a file without an embedded profile. Never."

I remeber doing that because if I did not all apps and browsers would display the colors differently compared to my Photoshop Masterfile or the sRGB in PS - my assumption was because they don't have the monitorprofile I used to edit it, so they look different in say Instagram.

"But that's what you did. In that case Firefox will, at default settings, display without any color management at all - oversaturated."

Currently, after deleting the profiles the color display of Firefox does match the Adobe RGB masterfile, which is also something that really puzzles me.

"To sum up: when you have a wide gamut monitor, you must have full color management at all times. You must embed the profile, you must have a valid and correct monitor profile - and you can only use applications that have full color management support. That's the long and short of it."

Well, before I re-calibrated my monitor (I simply let it slide for half a year) everything worked just fine the way I rolled. Meaning using monitor profiles editing in Adobe and outputting in "Internet Strandard sRGB" via "save for web" without color managment - as previously mentioned when compared to my phone or even my latop the colors looked alike without color managment but with the colormanagment selecting "Screen Colors" it looked odd and washed out.

"(At first I thought this was the usual buggy BenQ software - because it is, and has been for a long time, unless they've fixed it recently. There's been a flood of reports of problems with the BenQ software over many years. I've also noticed that Spyders have a somewhat poor reputation, but I'm not so sure about the validity of that. I take that with a grain of salt. I don't have any direct experience with either.

Anyway, when I read closer, it occurred to me that this all sounds like expected behavior. You just mistakenly assume that the oversaturated version is how it should be. But I don't think so.)"

Yeah the problem is that at this point I don't really know what it is supposed to look like. I try to make it look like the files do on my other display devices like my phone essentially because I figured I never complained about colors there so yeah.

Now my question is what to do. I will recalibrate my screens again I guess and see what happenes. Because as it is now it's really weird and I woulnd't know what to rely on.

davescm

Community Expert

@Nicolas Alexander Otto

1. Calibrate and profile your monitor.

2. Then make sure all your images use an embedded colour profile (including those you export).

3. Ensure you only use colour managed applications (this is especially important with a wide gamut monitor).

4. Believe the Photoshop result - do not maladjust your image to match an uncalibrated monitor or a non colour managed application.

Colour Management simple explanation

Digital images are made up of numbers. In RGB mode, each pixel has a number representing Red, a number representing Green and a Number representing Blue. The problem comes in that different devices can be sent those same numbers but will show different colours. To see a demonstration of this, walk into your local T.V. shop and look at the different coloured pictures – all from the same material.

To ensure the output device is showing the correct colours then a colour management system needs to know two things.

1. What colours do the numbers in the document represent?
This is the job of the document profile which describes the exact colour to be shown when Red=255 and what colour of white is meant when Red=255, Green = 255 and Blue =255. It also describes how the intermediate values move from 0 through to 255 – known as the tone response curve (or sometimes “gamma”).
Examples of colour spaces are (Adobe RGB1998, sRGB IEC61966-2.1)
With the information from the document profile, the colour management system knows what colour is actually represented by the pixel values in the document.

What colour will be displayed on the printer/monitor if it is sent certain pixel values?
This is the job of the monitor/printer & paper profile. It should describe exactly what colours the device is capable of showing and, how the device will respond when sent certain values.
So with a monitor profile that is built to represent the specific monitor (or a printer profile built to represent the specific printer, ink and paper combination) then the colour management system can predict exactly what colours will be shown if it sends specific pixel values to that device.

So armed with those two profiles, the colour management system will convert the numbers in the document to the numbers that must be sent to the device in order that the correct colours are displayed.

So what can go wrong :

The colours look different in Photoshop, which is colour managed, to the colours in a different application which is not colour managed.
This is not actually fault, but it is a commonly raised issue. It is the colour managed version which is correct – the none colour managed application is just sending the document RGB numbers to the output device regardless without any conversion regardless of what they represent in the document and the way they will be displayed on the output device.
The colour settings are changed in Photoshop without understanding what they are for.
This results in the wrong profiles being used and therefore the wrong conversions and the wrong colours.
If Photoshop is set to Preserve embedded profiles – it will use the colour profile within the document.
The profile for the output device is incorrect.
The profile should represent the behaviour of the device exactly. If the wrong profile is used it will not. Equally if the settings on the device are changed in comparison to those settings when the profile was made, then the profile can no longer describe the behaviour of the device. Two examples would be using a printer profile designed for one paper, with a different paper. A second example would be using a monitor profile but changing the colour/contrast etc settings on the monitor.
The monitor profile is set in the operating system (in Windows type colour management into the search bar) which leads to a potential further issue. Operating system updates can sometimes load a different monitor profile, or a broken profile, which no longer represents the actual monitor.

Colour management is simple to use provided the document profile is correct, always save or export with an embedded profile, and the monitor/printer profile is correct. All the math is done in the background.

I hope that helps

Dave

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