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Participant
December 1, 2023
Answered

Low Quality Export and desaturated from color grading

  • December 1, 2023
  • 2 replies
  • 830 views

Hey there, I'm editing my first short together and ran into some issues. The export looks absolutely different in color grading than it did in premiere, and the export also has random bits of quality drop. Anything helps, thank you. 

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Correct answer cartermiller

I'd be able to say more looking at the scopes ... but ... without that, just from looking at the images ... there's not enough light in the shadows to make this "clean", there's going to be noise and probably blocking artifacts with any attempt to get lighter dark areas.

 

In grading, to make 'dark' scenes, most movie and TV productions don't start dark. They start closer to normal in lighting and exposure, and then grade the shadows down to make it look 'dark'. As then you can hold any shadow details you want, and don't have nearly the noise and artifacts to deal with.

 

I've made grading tutorials for a subscription Colorist site, to show Resolve colorists how to work in Premiere when they need to do so. My "suite" is properly dark, not 'black', but pretty dark, with a proper bias light behind the reference monitor to the rear wall for visual standards.

 

But I can't record talking to the camera with it that dark! So ... lights, camera, action, right? And I can then grade that to look like a proper colorist suite in operation.


I figured it out! I wasn't exporting at CBR.

2 replies

R Neil Haugen
Legend
December 1, 2023

You have a color management mis-match between Premiere and your Mac ... which I'll get to down below. But we have to get your CM settings setup first, then ... some questions and options follow.

 

First, setting up CM ... it's now all in the Color Workspace, Lumetri panel, Settings tab, where ALL CM controls are visible in one place. Thankfully!

 

So ... Project settings, make sure that auto detect log is on.

 

In Sequence settings, auto-tonemapping should be on. This will combine with the above to 'normalize' most log encoded clips without needing a LUT, and ... will transform most HDR media to Rec.709 safely, especially from say iPhones and whatnot. IF your sequence is Rec.709.

 

But now ... a bit of information. Mac's that are set to Rec.709 in the OS monitor settings, will use the weird display gamma of 1.96 for Rec.709 video. The entire rest of the world, using the full standards of Rec.709 including the Bt.1886 update, uses gamma 2.4 for Rec.709/SDR video display. Although gamma 2.2 is allowable for web use.

 

But ... Macs with the new option of HDTV, when set to that, will also use display gamma of 2.4.

 

As noted, PCs, TVs, and most Android devices, all of broadcast, use 2.4. Premiere used to be totally  hardwired to work on systems assuming a correct Rec.709 video monitoring setup. Including 100 nits brightness, sRGB primaries, and ... display gamma of 2.4. Now you can actually change the gamma, but first ...

 

Who are you most worried about?

 

There is no way to create a video that looks the same when displayed with gamma 1.96 as with gamma 2.4. So you need to pick your market.

 

Is the main thing you're worried about those on Macs using gamma 1.96?

 

If so, in the Display settings in the Settings tab, set the viewer gamma to 1.96 (QuickTime). That way the Program monitor in Premiere will use the same display gamma as the ColorSync utility in Macs when set to the weird Apple implementation of Rec.709.

 

But understand ... those on Macs using the HDTV setting, and any full-on broadcast compliant setup, and most of us PC users, will see a very dark version of your video.

 

If you worry most about the 'general' viewers, including those with more correct Rec.709 gamma ... then, you can use either the Web (2.2 gamma) option or the Broadcast (2.4 gamma) option.

 

With the unfortunate thing that most Mac users running "Rec.709" settings will see a lighter, less saturated view.

 

I work for/with/teach pro colorists and have been around "this" discussion since Apple came out with that odd Rec.709 setting, and totally ticked off the colorist crowd ... most of whom are Mac based, and work pro Rec.709. With gamma 2.4.

 

One thing colorists are taught off the bat ... "you can't fix gramma's green TV" ... meaning no matter what you do, the file will be displayed on all sorts of screens, with all kinds of problems, and you have no control what so freaking ever. If gramma's old TV is all greeenish, well ... everything on that TV will be greenish.

 

Even on the same screen, say an iPhone ... watch a vid out on a park bench in mid-day sun, then again in a dark bedroom at night. Different 'view' because the surrounding environment is so different.

 

Plus ... no two devices, even "identical" monitors, running side-by-side off the same feed, calibrated by the same devices, will be an exact match. It's just not physically possible.

 

Colorists are taught that no one, ever! ... no matter whether it's theatrical release, broadcast/streaming TV, or DVD/Web use ... not one person will ever see exactly what the colorist saw on their reference monitor. So  you  setup your system and calibrate it, with gear costing more than you and I have in out total computer setups ... to get as close to whichever standard your deliverable needs.

 

And ... let it go. Because out in the Wild, you have no control.

 

However ... if you have your setup tight to the standards ... then ... on any screen out there, your media will look relatively like all other professionally produced media on that screen.

 

Which is the best anyone can do.

Everyone's mileage always varies ...
Participant
December 1, 2023

Amazing help! Thank you so much! Any tips on the quality issues?

R Neil Haugen
Legend
December 1, 2023

I'd be able to say more looking at the scopes ... but ... without that, just from looking at the images ... there's not enough light in the shadows to make this "clean", there's going to be noise and probably blocking artifacts with any attempt to get lighter dark areas.

 

In grading, to make 'dark' scenes, most movie and TV productions don't start dark. They start closer to normal in lighting and exposure, and then grade the shadows down to make it look 'dark'. As then you can hold any shadow details you want, and don't have nearly the noise and artifacts to deal with.

 

I've made grading tutorials for a subscription Colorist site, to show Resolve colorists how to work in Premiere when they need to do so. My "suite" is properly dark, not 'black', but pretty dark, with a proper bias light behind the reference monitor to the rear wall for visual standards.

 

But I can't record talking to the camera with it that dark! So ... lights, camera, action, right? And I can then grade that to look like a proper colorist suite in operation.

Everyone's mileage always varies ...
Kevin-Monahan
Community Manager
Community Manager
December 1, 2023

Hi @cartermiller,

Thanks for the screenshots. Did you shoot in HDR? Can you try evaluating color using VLC instead of QuickTime? How does the footage look when uploaded? QuickTime is not an app to evaluate color with, especially with certain models of Macs that have P3 screens. You can also try adjusting the gamma setting in Lumetri Color panel > Settings in 24.0. Let the community know if this info helps. Sorry for the hassle.

 

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin Monahan - Sr. Community & Engagement Strategist – Pro Video and Audio
Participant
December 1, 2023

Yes I shot in VLOG FHD 30Fps on my GH6. And I uploaded it to YouTube and it has the exact same issues.