Expiration date on PDF password.

[Joe_Caldwell]

Hello, everyone.

I would like to set-up an expiration date and/or time on a password assigned to a document to limit access to it.

Is there a way (simple, hopefully) to do this ?

Thanks in advance.

[try67]

This can be done with either a very expensive DRM solution, or with a very insecure script.

[Joe_Caldwell]

Hi, try67.

Thanks again for your reply.

I thought that perhaps Acrobat would offer this option to limit access to PDF files. This would be a nice feature.

Aside from the two options you offer, can you think of any other way to do this ? How about third party applications ? Does Acrobat allow the use of third party plug-ins ? In this case, is there any that could do this ?

Thanks again.

[try67]

This is technically very complicated to achieve. What if the user changes

the date on their computer? The date will need to be verified from an

external source, and what if that's not available? And so forth...

Adobe does offer this service, but in the form a DRM server, costing (tens

of) thousands of dollars.

Yes, it's possible to install third-party plugins in Acrobat, but I don't

know of any such tool that applies expiration dates to PDFs. You could ask

the good folks over at the Acrobat SDK forum, though.

[VL Branko]

What about limiting the number of times that the document is opened. Is that possible?

[try67]

The same answer applies.

[adaptable_Eclipse15A8]

For other options, check out:

http://www.fileopen.com/products/fileopen_pdf_control/

http://www.locklizard.com/

[Joe_Caldwell]

George and try67,

Thank you for your replies. I am surprised to see that this is not an option offered by Acrobat. Considering how universal PDF files have become and the need most users have to secure their documents when sharing them online, I think it is quite surprising Adobe hasn't yet provided an easy and simple way for users to restrict access to documents they create. Hopefully this forum is reviewed by the company for user suggestions and its engineers will use suggestions discussed here to improve products.

Thanks again.

[Dave Merchant]

They do, it's called LiveCycle.

What you're trying to do is impossible without a DRM system to verify the real date, and Adobe's DRM system is fully-integrated into Acrobat, once you've bought a LiveCycle licence you simply add the server details and click on the policy of your choice - it's as simple as applying any other type of protection to a PDF file. It may not be cheap, but DRM never is.

Thank you for your replies. I am surprised to see that this is not an option offered by Acrobat. Considering how universal PDF files have become and the need most users have to secure their documents when sharing them online, I think it is quite surprising Adobe hasn't yet provided an easy and simple way for users to restrict access to documents they create.

[Phillip_M_Jones]

Dave Merchant wrote:

They do, it's called LiveCycle.

What you're trying to do is impossible without a DRM system to verify the real date, and Adobe's DRM system is fully-integrated into Acrobat, once you've bought a LiveCycle licence you simply add the server details and click on the policy of your choice - it's as simple as applying any other type of protection to a PDF file. It may not be cheap, but DRM never is.

Thank you for your replies. I am surprised to see that this is not an option offered by Acrobat. Considering how universal PDF files have become and the need most users have to secure their documents when sharing them online, I think it is quite surprising Adobe hasn't yet provided an easy and simple way for users to restrict access to documents they create.

Ahh but there is a Fly in the oniment.  Actually two:

1. it's not available for Mac users.
2. You have to be a fortune 50 Business owner just to afford it.

Please, don't  suggest items unavailable to Mac owner please. Live Cycle is a PC application, this a Mac Foum. And, most people that post here don't have deep pockets. All it does is set up the OP for disappointment. And also conveys an air of superiorty from PC users over Mac Users. Neither System is superior, Its just Adobe choose to provide the software and service only for PC users. (Their loss.)

[Steve Werner]

I totally agree, Phillip.

The Adobe Acrobat team continues to live in the 1990s where virtually every business person uses Windows, and they only had to develop for one platform.

I've been complaining about this since Acrobat 3 when I started using it.

[Phillip_M_Jones]

I may not have complaining as Long as you Steve Perhaps Acrobat 4 or 5  when ever I first learned about. Just goes to show how much Adobe cares about the Mac Plaform.

I find that ironic. Had not Apple supported Adobe in their endeavor to break out of the mold as being a Font House only. And Mac User actually acted as testers for such products as:

Adobe Type manager, Acrobat, Photoshop, Illustrator (compteted with FreeHand by Aldus). They would not exist. It wasn't until 3 years after their release on the Mac, did Bill Gates allowed development of those products on PC.  When they caught on on PC, Adobe abandoned us.

As for the reason why Apple and Adobe don't get along in modern times is Flash. Adobe just barely makes it compatible with the Mac. While the PC version is finely tuned for PC. Flash is the number one crasher on the Mac Platform it cause more web browsers to Crash than anything else, on a Mac. IF Adobe would allow Apple to work with them on getting the bugs out of the Mac Version of Flash, would go a long ways toward mending fences with Apple. Jobs might even allow support of Flash on iPhone, and iPad.

However, since we have been complaining for ages, we will have deal with Adobe giving us the middle finger, and go on.

[Dave Merchant]

Seriously, you need to read what I posted before taking me to task. I said Adobe's DRM solution is called LiveCycle. LiveCycle is a server-based solution that runs on multiple architectures, it is not a desktop application. LiveCycle Designer is a desktop application for the Windows platform, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with DRM, it's merely a tool to design forms; and so nothing do do with this thread.

If you just want to stop someone reading your grocery list, there are thousands of cheap and simple ways to do it, but they're not DRM. Put it in a zip file and password-protect it. Email it using PGP. What DRM does is guarantee the protection is secure by forcing the document to "phone home" - not only revealing who is using it, but allowing the owner to remotely-revoke access. It's designed for documents which are distributed via unsecure methods but which in and of themselves must remain 100% secure, in the face of concerted and expert attack.

DRM via a SAAS model is expensive, period. It has to be, as whomever is  running it must keep servers online 24/7 to authenticate every document  action, and those servers have to be extremely well protected given  their databases carry the access keys to some of the most valuable  documents on the planet. Adobe invests millions of dollars in their  hardware infrastructure, so you're not going to get a server for a  buck a week. The value in a DRM solution is not in the cost of the  software itself - you're not paying per-line for the assembly code,  you're paying for protection against the loss of documents, and for many  LiveCycle users the release of even a couple of those documents beyond  the authorized group could cost them tens of thousands of dollars in  legal costs and lost revenue. Publishers use it to circulate manuscripts  for new books, one stolen copy of which could lose them millions.  Governments and courts use it to protect the identity of people whose  lives would be put at risk if the DRM was ever broken, and Adobe LiveCycle DRM never has been.

Please, don't  suggest items unavailable to Mac owner please. Live Cycle is a PC application, this a Mac Foum. And, most people that post here don't have deep pockets. All it does is set up the OP for disappointment. And also conveys an air of superiorty from PC users over Mac Users. Neither System is superior, Its just Adobe choose to provide the software and service only for PC users. (Their loss.)

[Phillip_M_Jones]

You did notice comment about the deep pockets That refers to the LiveCycle Server.

and so far as I know the features in Live Cycle the software are unavailable on the Mac and never have been.

While the Server may be available to Mac Userss. it will do little good since there is no way to set up the DRM from a Mac, That requires Live Cycle the software.

[Joe_Caldwell]

First I wish to thank all of you for your answers and help.

It is sad to see that Adobe still seems to distance itself from the needs of its customers. A company in tune with its customers would have made many of these changes a while ago but Adobe, for one reason or another, doesn't seem able to do it.

Acrobat and its PDF files are a great solution for sharing documents in a digital world. Up to this point the lack of a proper platform to allow users to read PDF files and experience nearly the same as they would when reading a book or other printed document was the major factor preventing Acrobat from becoming the ubiquous solution it could become. Now that the iPad and all of its clones have provided a solution to that problem, it seems Adobe seems to be its own biggest obstacle.

It is my opinion that PDF files won't become the universal solution they have the potential to become until many of the issues discussed here have been resolved. Adobe has suffered for many years with piracy issues and it could have prevented it, at least in part, by providing its applications at a lower, more realistic price. It has instead chosen to price its applications at a price point that makes it unreachable to most users. The same seems to be happening here with Acrobat's LiveCycle solution.

Acrobat will not become a universal solution until many of the issues that have been discussed here have been resolved. Most of us need to share documents that we wish to maintain as confidential. Fax tachnology can be considered to be on its way to obsolescence and many newer offices aren't even equipped with one. E-mail, on the other hand, is everything but a secure way to exchange information. Acrobat could allow individuals and businesses to share documents and information they want to maintain confidential and do so by e-mail through the use of security features. But these security features must be (1) improved and (2) made accessible to the average user with a price policy that is reasonable.

Acrobat could very easily do the following (in my humble opinion and without too much work on Adobe's part):

1. Allow creator to set-up number of computers authorized to access document (once document is opened by one computer Acrobat could keep track of this computer's ID and only allow it to open the document from that point forward. Document creator could specify that 2 or 3 or any number of computers could access document).

2. Allow creator to set-up time limit for access to document. Time could either be checked with computer's internal clock or document would only be accessed when computer had Internet connection so that it would check time via Internet with some kind of "Atomic Clock" or another server at Adobe's site.

3. Allow creator's Acrobat to communicate remotely with document via Internet. The reader's computer would communicate remotely with the creator's computer so that both Acrobat applications would exchange information. Why is there a need for an expensive server-dependent solution ? Many e-mail clients offer the users the option to request a delivery and read receipts for the e-mails they send. I can't imagine why, with all the technology we have available today, the same or similar couldn't be developed for individual computers to implement these solutions for Acrobat.

These are just some of many suggestions. I am sure all of you would be able to add even better ideas to the list above. Hopefully Adobe is reading these forums and will take some of the positive criticism and suggestions here as incentive to improve its products.

Thank you again for your helpful replies.

[Dave Merchant]

It is sad to see that Adobe still seems to distance itself from the needs of its customers. A company in tune with its customers would have made many of these changes a while ago but Adobe, for one reason or another, doesn't seem able to do it.

Sorry you feel that way, but Adobe are very much "in tune" with customers - however the customers for DRM are enterprises, and enterprises can afford to pay the market price for enterprise-class software. LiveCycle may be expensive compared to consumer desktop applications, but paying 5 or 6 figures for apps is commonplace in enterprise when they provide that much value to the business.

PDF already is a universal solution. Adobe Reader has close to a 100% reach on all desktop and laptop hardware, tens of billions of PDF files are shared every day, and it's an ISO standard - making it the only format accepted by many governments, courts and archival services. The entire print industry relies on it, and it's used for everything from shipping labels to eBooks. Despite improvements in HTML5 no other file format can do what PDF can, period.

Acrobat could allow individuals and businesses to share documents and information they want to maintain confidential and do so by e-mail through the use of security features.

It does - via password and certificate encryption. What you're asking for is remote control over access to a document, which is NOT the same thing.

Acrobat could very easily do the following (in my humble opinion and without too much work on Adobe's part):

Sorry but no. All those features are encompassed by DRM, and cannot be achieved by any other method. It's both technically and practically unrealistic for desktop software to act as a DRM coordinator, as not only are most desktop machines firewalled, but they are rarely online 24/7/365. Servers are, hence LiveCycle is a server application.

You're talking about "activating" a document on certain combinations of hardware, which you will have done for software such as Windows, Acrobat, Creative Suite, etc. - all of which must connect to a remote server to verify the license is valid (or by telephone to someone using the remote server on your behalf). That's DRM. It's not cheap, it's not easy, but it's worth the expense if the item being protected has sufficient value. If not, software vendors just use serial numbers and forget about tracking how many times the thing's been installed - and in PDF that means password or certificate encryption.