How to Set Read Order Without Changing Layers

[RageKageRugger]

I am trying to make my PDF both screen-reader accessible and printer-friendly.

In my InDesign file I have layers for text, background, images, and B&W images. I was hoping to be able to make it so the PDF has the proper reading order while maintaining these layers, but when I went through and manually set the reading order in Acrobat, it seemed to have moved what layers items were placed in the PDF file.

I'm using InDesign CS6 and Acrobat DC.

[AccessibleToAll98]

Hi RKR,

I think I'm having this exact same issue, and it's quite frustrating! I really hope Acrobat can fix this bug, because document accessibility is SO important, but not taken seriously or respected within our high-tech world.

I'm required in my workflow to edit both the Tag Tree and Reading Order so that they match. I can't think of any reason why they wouldn't match by default, and other A11y users have this same concern. Acrobat is aware of this--here's a link to a 2019 post begging Acrobat to make the two tabs match, but it doesn't seem to have been prioritized yet because here we are.

Anyways, the Tag Tree is so easy to work with, and allows me to organize my tags without any problems. When I pop into reading order, everything is jumbled up and needs reorganizing. I don't mind putting in the extra time, but I've run into a similar issue which renders the reading order workflow impossible to complete. All images within my PDFs by default sit at the bottom of the reading order, but when I move them to their correct place in the panel, they descended to the bottom layer of the document and become "invisible" to sighted users (i.e. blocked by all the other layers). With some light research, I was able to find a workaround to this problem--a way to manually move the layers around within Acrobat (here is a possible solution for you, hope it helps!).

Crossing my fingers, I followed the suggested steps. I brought that image back to the front of the document, and it worked! The image was visible. Then, I looked back at the good ol' Reading Order panel and, believe it or not, the image had dropped back down to last place within the panel. So, I found myself in a loop: changing the reading order of the image made it disappear, and bringing the image back into view changed the reading order.

I really, really hope Acrobat can take this issue seriously; if not to fix the bug within the Reading Order panel that you and I experience, then to make the Tag Tree and Reading Order tabs ALWAYS match so there would be no reason to edit the Reading Order in the first place. I also hope Acrobat can recognize that, as long as this issue remains, there is NO possible way for me to finish any of the work I'm paid to do. I explained to my manager, in reference to these documents, that it is a matter of us choosing between full accessibility to sighted users, and full accessibility to the visually impaired--and no one working for accessibility should ever be forced to make that dicision.

Best of luck,

AA98

[RageKageRugger]

I ultimately ended up making two documents:

1. A fully stylized layout with correct reading order but that didn't have adjustable layers
2. Another that was unfortunately not screen reader accessible but where the user could tick on and off layers for better printing

[Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com]

...

Acrobat is aware of this--here's a link to a 2019 post begging Acrobat to make the two tabs match, but it doesn't seem to have been prioritized yet because here we are.

...

I really, really hope Acrobat can take this issue seriously; if not to fix the bug within the Reading Order panel that you and I experience, then to make the Tag Tree and Reading Order tabs ALWAYS match so there would be no reason to edit the Reading Order in the first place.

By @AccessibleToAll98

See previous replies to @RageKageRugger for detailed explanation.

It's not likely we'll see this "fixed" in our lifetimes because the 2 orders are based on 2 different parts of a PDF file's encoding.

Adobe has added some AI-related corrections in recent versions of InDesign, but ultimately we designers must learn how to control both the Tag RO and the Architectural RO with InDesign's tools.

As you said, this is a huge time-suck for your workflow. That's why my classes spend a lot of time reviewing different techniques to control both ROs. They are crucial to the PDF file's accessibility.

[AccessibleToAll98]

Hi Bevi,

I knew I recognized your name somewhere--I read your blog about the 4 reading orders during my Reading Order research and found it so informative! Thank you in advance for being open to share your knowledge about accessibility online with others.

I've tried your suggested workflow: editing the Architectural order first and then Tag Tree second. My Tag Tree changes as the Architectural order is manipulated, which is amazing and saves a lot of time. However, I'm still experiencing that same issue regarding images disappearing/reorganizing layers. Your explanation of bottom-up hierarcy makes so much sense, and I wonder if the image is trying to descend to one of those lower layers to preserve this hierarchy, thus disappearing from view. Have you encountered this problem ever in Acrobat, and do you know a workaround to this issue? I.e. how would I keep the figures on the very top layer, but put them in between other invisible text in the reading order? It seems impossible 

Just for some extra context, I work with archival documents from the 1950s (not born-digital). They are scanned, and I OCR these documents through ABBYY Finereader, which I believe is what creates separate layers for text and images. Because I've put an invisible text layer underneath the document via the settings, I think the way ABBYY organizes my document is text layer last, then an image of the document page, then the individual figures at the top. So far, I'm in the middle of ABBYY research, but I can't seem to find a way to edit the way ABBYY formats its layer structure, so I'm thinking this ultimately may have to be worked around through Acrobat, not ABBYY, unfortunately (if there is a workaround).

All the best,

AA98

[Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com]

I am trying to make my PDF both screen-reader accessible and printer-friendly.

...

By @RageKageRugger

Adjust your workflow.

Make ONE InDesign layout, but export 2 PDFs  -- one for print/press, the other for accessibility.

[Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com]

In my InDesign file I have layers for text, background, images, and B&W images.

By @RageKageRugger

Is there a benefit to your design to do this? Why do color images have to be on a separate layer from B&W images?

Best to maintain just one layer in InDesign for everything. InDesign is not Photoshop or Illustrator and doesn't use its layers like those programs do.

The Architectural Reading Order (what you're seeing in the "Order" panel in Acrobat) is built based mainly on your layers in InDesign (which creates the architectural structure of the document).

It's a bottom-up hierarchy in the layers: the bottom-most item is read first, and so on up the layers panel. If you have several layers as in your example, the architecture reads the bottom layer first, completes all of its items, and moves to the next layer to complete its items.

More InDesign layers = More Mess in the PDF's Order panel.

[RageKageRugger]

In my InDesign file I have layers for text, background, images, and B&W images.

By @RageKageRugger

Is there a benefit to your design to do this? Why do color images have to be on a separate layer from B&W images?

By @Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com

The client had both color and B&W maps included in the product. I was hoping to have one PDF output where it would be screen-reader friendly with full color images while also allowing for the user to toggle on and off layers to create a fully B&W file for home printing.

[Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com]

...when I went through and manually set the reading order in Acrobat, it seemed to have moved what layers items were placed in the PDF file.
By @RageKageRugger

Sometimes when an item is moved up/down in the Architectural Order panel, an item will become hidden behind another item. That's the stacking order that's being changed, similar to how you use Send to Front / Send to Back in InDesign.

Workflow for Acrobat:

1. Examine (but don't touch) the Tag Tree and see what needs to be adjusted.
2. Change to the Architectural Order panel and make adjustments there. Most will be adjusted in the Tags tree as well.
3. Return to the Tags tree and finish any other adjustments.

When changes are made in the Architectural Order's reading order, they will change the Tag reading order, too.

But when changes are made in the Tags tree, they generally aren't changed in the Architectural Order panel.

Note: Tags are just labels on different parts of the document, nothing more. You can easily change them and move them around the tag tree.

But the Architectural Order panel is showing the actual architectural construction of the PDF's code. It's the real structure of the PDF file and was the original method of allowing accessibility.

An analogy: In a house, the wall's studs and framing literally create the building's structure. We usually don't see these things, but they hold up the house. The PDF's Architectural Order lets us see the "studs" that create our PDF file.

A PDF's tags, on the other hand, are added to the file, very much like how we add drywall to our studs, paint it, and decorate the room. And it's relatively easy to change the wall pain color or rearrange the pictures on the wall.

See blog about the 4 reading orders in PDF files at: https://www.pubcom.com/blog/2020_08-18_ReadingOrder/reading-orders.shtml

[Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com]

I'm using InDesign CS6 and Acrobat DC.

By @RageKageRugger

Why continue to use an antiquated version of InDesign? It was released 10 years ago in spring of 2012, and before the first release of the PDF/UA ISO accessibility standard for PDF. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDF/UA

So that version of InDesign was created before the world even knew what an accessible PDF should be. Therefore, CS6 creates a horribly flawed PDF that is not accessible.

Upgrade your software, both InDesign and Acrobat DC Pro, to the latest versions to have the right tools to make accessible PDFs. Otherwise you're going to spend a helluva lotta time fixing every PDF you make.

[RageKageRugger]

$$$

[Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com]

Oooo, is that money for me?!

<grin>

[RageKageRugger]

It's money I wish I had to get an Adobe subcription 😂

[Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com]

It IS an expensive piece of software.

But it also has the expert-level tools needed to the job — to make accessible PDFs.

All of us designers have to weigh the cost: do we purchase the software that lets us do the job right and more quickly? Or do we use less-than-ideal tools which cause us to spend time fixing the files. And would we be able to charge clients $60/month more to cover the cost of a subscription? Or complete more work to cover the cost?

Other than academic verisions of software, there are no cheap options. But if you're either staff, faculty or a student at a school (K-12, college, university), you're eligible for academic rates. See https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/buy/students.html to see if you qualify. Last time I checked, you do not need to be a full-time student, so one course would make you eligible.

[RageKageRugger]

Yeah - I used to get this discount but I've switched jobs. It's actually how I got the CS6 copy way back when. 🙂

[JR Boulay]

Please, read this excellent article by Chad Chelius:

Accessibility Features and Limitations in InDesign

https://creativepro.com/accessibility-features-and-limitations-in-indesign/