My graphics work is donated to a local nonprofit agency. They have asked for fillable forms

[Chuck M]

My graphics work is donated to a local nonprofit agency. They have asked for forms that can be filled out online or on computer. The most promising app I've found is Acrobat DC Pro in my student suite. I find lots of short tutorials on how to do fillable fields, etc. But I don't find any overview that addresses the problems I have repeatedly. Brevity says I shouldn't list them but I can if asked. My early bottom line is that it is not a good idea to do fairly complex forms in Acrobat. Because the app will change what I create on the page. Love to be wrong.

[try67]

Adding form fields does not change the underlying content of your file. It can cover it, though.

List your problems and we'll help you tackle them (assuming they are not too complicated, in which case you might need to hire someone to do it for you).

[Chuck M]

Acrobat says Word docs can be a start to a fillable form. That's good because the Word docx can easily produce a non-fillable form (they have a use for them) and taking it into Acrobat yields the fillable. I did a form in Word (using line spacing and space above paragraph) and was fine with the appearance. I didn't know if check boxes and radio buttons should be added in Word and "repeated" in Acrobat, so I'm trying it both ways,.The test form has 2 large text boxes. One called for a signature. And the auto recog added all the text fields. The other had no sig, and fields weren't added. So I added a "bogus" temporary signature, the fields were added, and then edited in Acrobat to remove the text and line for Signature.

About 20 text fields were added with auto recognition. It wasn't hard to size them appropriately, but it was hard to get them aligned properly. Both horizontally and vertically spaced evenly. I suspect Acrobat has line spacing for text, but I haven't found it yet. The most troublesome changes were that sections I had assembled in Word in a single text box were in Acrobat broken up into 6 or more individual random-looking text boxes. They consisted of an intro sentence plus a 2nd line containing text only (no boxes) for the multiple choices.

I took a deep breath and put them back the way they should be. Saved the Acrobat file.Looked at the screen and Acrobat had broken them up again. Including putting words from 2 different items or questions in the same text box.Maybe I angered Acrobat by using too many word spaces. The choices had to be spaced apart to have room for a check box or radio button. And to look right. Tabs were too erratic for spacing. I don't know if Acrobat has fixed spaces. So I used 10 word spaces between choices. Wrong?

When I add a radio button in the middle of a line, the icon and associated text are positioned about 1/2 line space above the rest of the line. In properties or someplace, I could shift it down but then the text would be trimmed at the bottom before it was even vertically with the rest.

That's all for now...

[try67]

What you're describing are not form fields, but static text, which you've attempted to edit in Acrobat. You should not do that.

You need to create all non-interactive elements before creating the PDF, and then add the form fields in Acrobat.

You can use the form detection wizard, but the results are usually far from perfect and require quite a bit of manual changes.

Do not bother adding form fields in Word. They won't be picked up by Acrobat and you'll need to re-create them from scratch.

[Chuck M]

I'm trying to draw bottom lines out of your help. And this may be my last message.

What you're describing are not form fields, but static text, which you've attempted to edit in Acrobat. You should not do that.

One of the mini-tutorials said if I want to edit the text content, choose Tools > Create & Edit > Edit PDF.  If I want to work with the fields, choose Tools > Forms and Signatures > Prepare Form.

Your rec, I think, is simpler and smarter: Don’t edit text in Acrobat. 

You need to create all non-interactive elements before creating the PDF, and then add the form fields in Acrobat.

Got it.

You can use the form detection wizard, but the results are usually far from perfect and require quite a bit of manual changes.

May explain all the erratic results I saw – glitches that forced text editing in Acrobat.

Do not bother adding form fields in Word. They won't be picked up by Acrobat and you'll need to re-create them from scratch.

Got it. If one needs 3 or 4 choices on 1 line, maybe the Word file should only have the initial text beginning the line -- and no text for the choices, which only need fields.

Remaining questions:

1. How should I add white space between choice items? (Presumably in Word, though if that’s off-topic here, I can Google.)
   
   
2. You said: “You need to create all non-interactive elements before creating the PDF, and then add the form fields in Acrobat.”   Does that mean that if the nonprofit client adds or subtracts something (which is a virtual inevitability, often a serial inevitability) this fillable form has to be remade using a revised Word file to which in Acrobat are manually added 22 text fields and about 16 check boxes and radial boxes, all named and grouped? Right?

To me that’s a deal killer. Creating the fillable form, 1^st generation, seems a labor-intensive load for me. OK if the use of it is all downhill. But their modifying it when I’m gone is far beyond the skills & time available to the nonprofit staff.

It’s fun to investigate neat ideas, but it turns into pain if you don't know when to walk away.

Chuck M

[try67]

1. You mean in a drop-down field? You can add empty (well, almost empty. You can use a single space, for example) values, but it's not recommended.

2. No. In that case you open the old file (with the form fields) and use the Replace Pages command to insert the page from the new file over the old ones. That will update the static contents of the file, while keeping all the fields, scripts, bookmarks, links, etc. in tact.

[try67]

Just as a side-note: Adding form fields in a PDF file is not very easy when you start off, and it has a steep learning curve, but once you get the hang of it it's not too bad and the result is a much more useful and clean file than a Word document with form fields in it, and much more powerful. Since you're not getting paid to do this work it's totally understandable if you don't want to spend the time and efforts it takes to create such a form, hence my recommendation to pay (not you, the nonprofit, of course) to do it.

[Chuck M]

1. I've been doing work for the nonprofit (LEAVEN in Appleton, WI, USA) for almost 2 years. They do a remarkable job of getting pro-level work done by volunteers (in fact, many of their legions of volunteers are retired professionals doing whatever job needs doing). They absolutely respect professionals but they find ways to serve their public without using their budget for professional services. If I produce fillable PDFs for LEAVEN, I think I'll ask the local tech college to sign on to agree to carry on the work with a few updates, etc.
   
   
2. Replace Page is brand new to me and it sounds like a big help.
   
   
3. With a twinge of reluctance, a while back, I gave up using tables for web pages. But I'm hoping you'll say it's OK to use a table layout in the first-step version of the form in Word. Seems likely that could eliminate much of my current confusion in getting good horizontal spacing without editing content in Acrobat.
   
   
4. I can't keep asking every new question here. Does anyone know of good detailed training in making fillable PDFs? Same goes for Word forms.

Many thanks. Many hours were wasted before I found my way here...

[try67]

3. You can add tables in Word, but be aware there is no such thing as a table in a PDF file. You can create fields in a grid, but they remain independent of each other.

[Chuck M]

3.  I'm hoping that means the table will be lost -- but the pieces of text content will still be positioned in Acrobat where the cells of the Word table put them. That would seem workable.

This is an Adobe forum. Is there an Adobe place where I can ask my question about training courses and other learning for doing forms in Acrobat? Or a non-Adobe community that covers Acrobat?

Chuck M

[try67]

The table itself and the contents will still be there when you convert the Word file to a PDF, but their table "structure" will be lost.

Here are some resources that will help you get started in the PDF forms world:

General JS tutorial (note that only the core syntax applies to Acrobat): http://www.w3schools.com/js/default.asp

Homepage for Acrobat JavaScript development, including a link to the full API: http://www.adobe.com/devnet/acrobat.html

Free tutorials about Acrobat in general, including many JS related ones: https://acrobatusers.com/tutorials/

A paid-for website with tutorials about Acrobat JavaScript (not related to me): http://www.pdfscripting.com/

My humble web-site with many tools for Acrobat (mostly paid-for, some free): http://try67.blogspot.com

[Chuck M]

The word "JavaScript" scares the hell out of me. For good reason. I do not learn code languages well.

But I will review the resources you provide before initiating the process of deciding if I belong anywhere near doing Acrobat forms.

Appreciate your time and expertise...

[try67]

You don't actually need to know JS to be able to create form fields at the basic level. It's useful once you arrive to a more complex level and want to apply things like calculations, validations, etc.