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Reading order issues for accessibility

Community Beginner ,
Mar 21, 2019 Mar 21, 2019

I am working on converting fillable pdf documents to ADA compliant and the last step is the reading order that I keep getting stuck on.  When I move an item in the reading order it throws all of the other structure off. I cannot get the reading order to stay in place and was wondering if anyone could give me any advice on how to handle this issue.  I will be willing to accept any guidance, please.  I tried contacting someone from Adobe and recommended to entering my concern here.  

Thank you,

Darla

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Standards and accessibility
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Engaged ,
Mar 22, 2019 Mar 22, 2019

Just to help anyone that might be able to assist, can you provide a few more details?

  1. What tool/app are you using to edit read order?
  2. If Acrobat Pro, can you specifically define how you are moving items in the read order? Are you using the Tags View? The Order View? Other?
  3. Elaborate on how the structure is changed. Do you mean the visual layout on your form changes? Like, text disappears? Or do you mean that tags in your Tags View jump to different areas/pages in the Tag structure order?

- noel

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 01, 2019 Apr 01, 2019

Thank you for responding, I appreciate it. I am using Adobe Acrobat Pro and every time I move one thing the order moves and it is hard to get it in the right order. I appreciate any additional information.

[cid:image004.png@01D4E873.98ACEDE0][cid:image001.png@01D4E873.1A2E9310]

Warm regards,

Darla Santillanes

Administrative Assistant

San Juan College- Office of Financial Aid

4601 College Blvd. Farmington, N.M. 87402

(505) 566-3564

Fax: (505) 566-3593

santillanesd@sanjuancollege.edu<mailto:santillanesd@sanjuancollege.edu>

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Engaged ,
Apr 01, 2019 Apr 01, 2019

Acrobat Pro, check!

Can you go into detail on what exactly you are moving and how you are moving it? The reason I ask is to help troubleshoot, we need to understand exactly what you are see and doing. For example, are you literally moving text on a page? Or are you using the Acrobat Pro Tags panel to move tags around? Or are you using some other tool to move things? What order are you seeing change? Tags from the Tags View or content/page order in the Order View?

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Engaged ,
Apr 01, 2019 Apr 01, 2019

You know, I think I may have misread your original comment. I see now you mention the read order is what you are changing. If you are using the Order View to rearrange the stack of things, then that may be hiding other objects on your page. Is that what you're experiencing?

For the items you have found in error, have you tested how it actually reads using a screen reader like JAWS or NVDA (free)? Have you looked at your Tags View list to see what the order there is?

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People's Champ ,
Apr 01, 2019 Apr 01, 2019

Since the original poster said the PDF has form fields, then there are 3 main reading orders she could be referring to:

  • The reading order of the tags tree/Panel
  • The reading order in the Order panel
  • And the reading order (aka tab order) of the form fields themselves.

Generally, if you move items in the Order panel, their corresponding tags in the Tags panel will also change.

But if you move items in the Tags panel, most likely nothing will change in the Order panel.

And the order of the form fields isn't affected by either.

Recommend viewing Adobe's new video recordings on working with accessible PDFs by Rob Haverty (one of Adobe's accessibility experts). They're free and give excellent guidance. https://events-ar.adobeconnect.com/content/connect/c1/881497641/en/events/catalog.html

|    Bevi Chagnon   |  Designer, Trainer, & Technologist for Accessible Documents |
|    PubCom |    Classes & Books for Accessible InDesign, PDFs & MS Office |
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Engaged ,
Apr 09, 2019 Apr 09, 2019

The Order Panel is worse than useless. I always use the Content Panel instead. It gives a greater level of control and doesn't eff up the tag order.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 10, 2019 Apr 10, 2019

Thank you for the feedback, much appreciated

Warm regards,

Darla Santillanes

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 17, 2019 Apr 17, 2019

Thank you for the response, I appreciate it. Could anyone help with the process of clearing a URL link within a document for ADA compliance?

Thank you,

Warm regards,

Darla Santillanes

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People's Champ ,
Apr 17, 2019 Apr 17, 2019

darlasanti81  wrote

Could anyone help with the process of clearing a URL link within a document for ADA compliance? 

Not sure what you mean by "clearing a URL link with a document."  It's not a term or task done for accessibility.

Can you give us more details about what you're trying to do?

  • What's the problem you have in the PDF?
  • What do you think the link and URL should be?

—Bevi

|    Bevi Chagnon   |  Designer, Trainer, & Technologist for Accessible Documents |
|    PubCom |    Classes & Books for Accessible InDesign, PDFs & MS Office |
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Community Beginner ,
Apr 17, 2019 Apr 17, 2019

Sorry, I am trying to make a form ADA compliant and there is an error saying there is a tagged annotation that failed showed below

Then I am getting an appropriate nesting error, not sure how to fix this as shown below.

Warm regards,

Darla Santillanes

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People's Champ ,
Apr 17, 2019 Apr 17, 2019

@darlasanti81

I suggest you create a new question in a new thread. It's not appropriate in the forums to tack on additional issues about forms, untagged annotations, links, etc. when the original question was about reading orders.

From the list of questions you've presented in this thread, it appears that you haven't had much training in making accessible PDFs, let alone the advanced tasks of making accessible forms. Nesting errors (and preventing them to begin with) are topics covered in an introductory class in accessible PDFs.

This is not the place or venue to squeeze 5 days' worth of intensive, upper-level training out of us volunteers. I couldn't answer your last batch of questions without seeing either the PDF or the accessibility checker report. Your questions are too vague.

Try using the search field in the upper right of this webpage to see if you can find answers to your questions. And sign up for a class or 3. I suggest:

  • Making  accessible PDFs from Word and MS Office
  • Making accessible PDFs from Adobe InDesign
  • Making accessible PDF forms
  • Checking, testing, and remediating PDFs

Good luck.

|    Bevi Chagnon   |  Designer, Trainer, & Technologist for Accessible Documents |
|    PubCom |    Classes & Books for Accessible InDesign, PDFs & MS Office |
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Community Beginner ,
Apr 18, 2019 Apr 18, 2019

Thank you Bev.

Warm regards,

Darla Santillanes

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 18, 2019 Apr 18, 2019

Do you know how I could sign up for a class?

Warm regards,

Darla Santillanes

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Engaged ,
Apr 18, 2019 Apr 18, 2019

Click on Bevi's name. There is a URL on her Adobe bio page to her site. There are classes available there. I've participated in two and have gotten quite a bit out of them. They were online, so no need for travel.

As to your nesting problem, take a look at the thread post under yours: Fix Header and Nesting Fails? That might provide some context into what you're experiencing.

My guess is that you have some tags out of order or something. Like the link explains, you gotta follow proper order. Like when you create an outline, you can't really skip around Section 1 followed by Section 3. you need 1, then 2, then 3. Kinda similar for your tags. H1, H2, H3 is cool. H1, H3, H4 is not. Maybe you have a tag that isn't in the right place?

Like Bevi said though, it's kinda vague so it's hard to imagine the many possible causes of what you're seeing. I'm assuming your'e getting these errors from the Acrobat Pro's Accessibility "Full Check?" If so, you should be able to click the error listed to highlight the location of the error within your PDF. Based on what it highlights you should get an idea of what MIGHT be going on. For example, if it highlights what looks like a header line of text, then look at the Tags View and see what's going on around it. Maybe you accidentally tagged something as H3 when it should have been H2.

Screen captures help give context to issues.

So does Google! I can't tell you how much time I've spent just combing through Google search results for the key words from so many errors. While a LOT of the search results are probably old, you can still read through and gain some perspective on how to look at your problems. I could write an essay on all the correct solutions I've found just by patiently clicking around and piecing it all together. I could write two novels on misinformation, obsolete processes, or just my own dumb assumptions. Still though, it all leads down the same path of discovery.

Good luck!

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 18, 2019 Apr 18, 2019

Thank you very much, I appreciate your feedback.

Warm regards,

Darla Santillanes

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People's Champ ,
Apr 18, 2019 Apr 18, 2019

Very nice, "yn"!

Thanks for spreading the knowledge.

|    Bevi Chagnon   |  Designer, Trainer, & Technologist for Accessible Documents |
|    PubCom |    Classes & Books for Accessible InDesign, PDFs & MS Office |
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Engaged ,
Apr 18, 2019 Apr 18, 2019

word, Bevi. ...word.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 18, 2019 Apr 18, 2019
LATEST

All of you are so very nice and I appreciate all the information and advise that you give.

Have a great day!

Warm regards,

Darla Santillanes

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