AE 23.1.0 Poor Performance. Timeline/Keyframe lag.

[Nick2049]

I recently updated to 23.1.0 and just thought that the awful performance was because my project was getting pretty heavy with a few hundred layers (which AE has always suffered from, because pre-comping everything is not the solution and we still don't have layer groups/folders..)

But.. I've just cleared my cache, created a new project and already I can see there is an issue, I don't even have any layers in this new comp and the timeline indicator lags behind my mouse pointer when I move it.

If I create a simple new layer (white solid) and set a couple of keyframes, when I drag one of the keyframes left or right it massively lags behind my pointer, and is very steppy.

Moving a layers position along the timeline or adjusting its start/end position is also the same, in fact it's so delayed that things get 'stuck' to my pointer and behave as though I have not released left mouse button, and thus end up where I dont want them.

I have cleared my cache, updated windows, tried the latest NVIDIA drivers (standard and studio), tried switching between CUDA and software.. all to no avail.

OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2

BOARD: ASUS X299-E
CPU: i9-7940X
RAM: Corsair 64GB (4x16) DDR4

OS DISK: Samsung 970 PRO 1TB

SCRATCH DISK: Samsung 970 PRO 2TB

GPU: ASUS GTX 1080Ti (Driver: 528.02)

DISPLAYS: 2 x 27" 4K @ 150% Scaling

[Lyc]

Correction: I think this is a result of the workspace being reset, not due to language settings.

[Dana5C25]

Thank you for sharing your unique perspective, that's really interesting... Elsewhere I was reading that for some people having the Character panel open was causing After Effects to slow down somehow. Closing the Character panel didn't fix it for me, but I wonder if it's somehow related to that. I hope Adobe can figure out a fix soon, I really like some of the new features in 23.1

[JBrown321]

Even after today's Feb release, STILL!! Why in God's name is the timeline navigation so slow now? I have attached a link to a video of my issue below. I mean the simplest of task such as dragging a layer forward or backward in time, dragging keyframes or footage. Keyframes and rolling type adustments to footage will just react and snap to wild points in time after the mouse is released at times too ( that specifically not shown in video example below).  It's like trying to push a car underwater moving around at 3fps. I have friends on the same AE version( Windows & OS 23.0.1 build 83, Now 23.2) that have the same exact responsivenes. This isn't an issue with specs as I've not changed a thing and yet the new releases are just so sluggish now. For the sake of providing the info I will still include my system specs. I have messed with prefs, I always clear my cache constantly, have it set to a fast NVMe drive and enable Mercury GPU Acceleration (which btw never ever seems to stay on with each AE release, and I'm constantly enableling it). I'm not sure if anyone from Adobe will see this, but please for the love of your users do something about this. I feel like I'm working on a 15 year old version of AE when I navigate things in the timeline. 

my issue here 

Win 11 (10.0.22621 build 22621

Core i9-12900K

Asus Pro Art Z690 Creator 

Nvidia 3080 ti (528.02 driver)

128 GB Ram

Samsung NVMe drives (one for OS, one set for cache, one for media)

[JBrown321]

 JohnColombo Downgrading Nvidia driver did nothing for me. The lag is still absolutely horrible and it's been like this for months. See the video link of my issue. This was the last release, but it's still just as bad. Please get the team on this, this is horrible and Fusion is looking mighty tempting right now.

[Nick2049]

This is exactly how mine is @JBrown321 

I've updated to the latest release and it's still terrible. Even in an empty project.

I wonder if this issue is limited to Windows? Are there any Mac users in here facing the same poor performance? I'm guessing not as there would be a lot more comments. I assume current gen Mac is the priority when it comes to adobe's app development resources anyway..

Any updates on this @JohnColombo ?

[ivan.markelov]

@Nick2049 , @JohnColombo   i have both mac and windows and i barely touch my 4k euro windows machine because my m1 max macbook with 32gb is faster then my windows machine, to be fair my m1 max  mac has 15% better single score raw performance but its still doesnt explain why dragging layers and changing keyframes is such a pain

22.4 is best 22.6.4 slower 23.1 and 23.2 ( i even tried beta but its not usable and i would not touch it in professional workflow) are trash and not usable on my windows, but mac is buttery smooth on all version and even haviest projects are gr8. i would love to see if people with crazy SC performance such as 7950x or 13900k have same issues and if intel vs AMD has any difference at all, i want to upgrade to 13900k but dont know if it will worth it because i do most of heavy rendering on farms anyway.

@JohnColombo  please guys fix your software and get it resolved together with graphics and cpu partners, i bet most people dont even suspect they have a problem on windows becasue they never tried adobe on mac, my camera raw is faster, bridge is faster, ,AI is faster, lightroom is faster and AE is faster by a mile....  how my laptop can be better then a dedicated workstation...

[JohnColombo]

Hi all,

Thank you for your patience and for all the information you've submitted here. We are currently investigating this issue, but we have not yet been able to reproduce it in-house in order to diagnose the cause. The bug appears to be limited to Windows machines with NVidia hardware, but please let us know if you experience the Timeline lag with other hardware.

As many of you already have, please continue to let us know if any environment changes affect the performance issue, e.g. driver updates/downgrades, closing panels, certain numbers of layers, etc.

There is a new feature in Beta that allows After Effects to start in Safe Mode with default prefs and no third-party plug-ins. If you are able, please try out the Beta builds with Safe Mode enabled and let us know if the lag continues. More details on the Beta are available here.

Thanks again for your patience as we work to get this issue fixed,

- John, After Effects Engineering Team 

[Nick2049]

Hi @JohnColombo 

I just tested the latest beta build (and also re-launched in safe mode with plugins disabled)

It is plagued by the same issues I'm afraid.

[JBrown321]

JohnColombo  Does your team not have access to a windows machine with Nvidia GPUs? Just make a timeline full of layers and expand the timeline so the panel is large vertically, then move the layers about. When the timeline panel is very small, the lag isn't as bad (still not great though), but once it's expanded, it's very bad, just like in the video example I shared. 

[JBrown321]

JohnColombo update* I just tried the beta in safe mode with no luck. I really now think the problem may be from the caching while idle. I can see the green caching on the timeline flashing in sync with the lag when I move something. I think it's trying to cache while things are being moved. Can you please explore the cache when idle and see if you can disable it? I really suspect there may be something there possibly. 

[JohnColombo]

@Nick2049 Thank you for trying that out!

@JBrown321 Thank you as well! Yes, I'm personally testing on two machines with NVidia GPUs: one older with dual GTX 1070s and one with an RTX 3070 Ti, both running driver 516.94. I've got a project with 150+ layers on a 4K monitor, lots of keyframes, and I'm able to drag layers and keyframes around smoothly. I don't say this to say that there is no issue—there clearly is—but only that some difference between our systems is preventing me from running into the bug. That difference is what we need to figure out so we can address it.

You can disable idle caching in the Composition menu under Preview > Cache Frames When Idle. I've tried with it both enabled and disabled and did not see any increased lag, but perhaps it will be different on your system.

[JBrown321]

JohnColombo  Thanks for the response! Tried to disable idle caching and still no affect. hmm maybe I will try the older driver. I never went back farther than the 517... maybe I will try the same 516 driver just for the heck of it. Thanks so much for looking into this and getting back 🙂  

[JBrown321]

JohnColombo Tried 516.94 and still same lag with no improvement on my end. Just letting you know

[Nick2049]

Thanks for keeping us updated @JohnColombo 

It is odd that you cannot reproduce the issue, are those two workstations you mentioned also running Win 10 Pro 64? Also what platform are they, intel/amd? I wonder if those of us who have the issue can find some other similiarities with our workstations. @JBrown321 and @ivan.markelov would you be so kind as to list your hardware specs and OS, maybe we can spot something we have in common?

I can also confirm that my cache bar is behaving the same as @JBrown321 described. I can start with a new blank project, create a solid, add a couple of keyframes (but no value changes) and in addition to being incredibly laggy when dragging the keyframes around it also appears as though it is being constantly re-cached.

My scratch disk is a dedicated M.2 nvme SSD, I did try switching over to my OS SSD but this seemingly made no difference.

[Dana5C25]

It seems to occur onn Windows 11 as well, that's what I am running. Can confirm I have the same cache bar behaviour.

I also have a M.2 SSD as my install drive, and a second M.2 SSD as my scratch disk. I didn't have the lag problem before I upgraded my hardware, though note I didn't upgrade to AE version 23 until after I upgraded my hardware either... But in case it's relevant, when I upgraded and started experiencing this problem I changed the following things:

- Went from a GTX 1080 to an RTX 3080

- Replaced install drive from M.2 Samsung 970 EVO to M.2 Samsung 980 EVO. The 970 got bumped to serve as scratch disk.

- Upgraded to Windows 11

Comparing my hardware to other people's hardware it seems to be a) Windows only and b) Nvidia only.

[JBrown321]

Win 11 (10.0.22621 build 22621

Core i9-12900K

Asus Pro Art Z690 Creator 

Nvidia 3080 ti (528.02 driver)

128 GB Ram

Samsung NVMe drives (one for OS, one set for cache, one for media)

[Nick2049]

So it looks like we're all using Samsung NVME SSD's...

Any thoughts on this @JohnColombo ? What storage are you using in those test workstations?

[ivan.markelov]

@Nick2049  3900x+ asus strix b550e rtx 4090 w11 pro ( tohugh problems were the same with w10), 528.49 drivers ( i tried a lot of them but with 4090 i dont have much margin back) samsung 970 1tb both program and scratch but i have another 1tb ssd and it does not make any difference. but it hardly ever used, 64gb crucial lpx 3600 cl18, 

ps deleting plugins folder did not make any difference.

[Nick2049]

What brand is your other SSD just out of interest @ivan.markelov 

Are you running Crucial memory too @JBrown321 

So far it looks like these are the only two similarities between our workstations.

[ivan.markelov]

@Nick2049 Kingston A2000 , and my main is samsung 980 not 970

[JBrown321]

yep crucial ram here

[Nick2049]

Sorry I mis-typed, I'm running Corsair memory.

So I guess the only common part is Samsung SSD's.

Even though the other drive you tested is Kingston @ivan.markelov I guess it could still technically be Samsung memory?

[thebigwick]

I have the same issue - a laggy response in the Timeline panel when moving layers around.

First noticed when just editing multiple layers that are .MP4 video files.

Tried on two different workstations with same results. (v23.1 & v23.2)

Both workstations have Nvidia drivers

Windows 10

Bug does NOT occur in CC 2022.

[JohnColombo]

@JBrown321 Sorry to hear the driver downgrade didn't help. There must be another factor at work.
@Nick2049 Both systems are running Win 10—one is Pro and one is Enterprise. The older one, with the dual 1070s, is running an Intel 7700K with 64GB of RAM and the other has an AMD Ryzen 9 5950X with 128GB of RAM.

My older system uses Samsung EVO SSDs for the OS and the newer system uses separate Samsung 980s for OS and cache.

Thank you all very much for being willing to share information to help us get this fixed.

- John, After Effects Engineering Team

[Nick2049]

Thanks for the info @JohnColombo 

I guess that rules out the Samsung SSD's then. 
Do you need any more info from us at all?