Prevent Maxon Cinema 4D Force Install

[omidsolo]

Why Adobe is force installing it with no option to prevent the installation at first place?

Each platform has standards, Microsoft has some guidelines!

Adobe should provide an option during setup, instead they just fill up our PCs with bloatware!

Don't believe me? Check after Adobe products' install how many services and processes are always running!

Solution is simple: Place a CheckBox on initial setup window: "Install C4D"!

Uninstall PS/AE/PR/ME and you'll see many of app files/folders/registry entries are not removed afterwards!

I'm truely appalled...

[ben_worldcoppersmith]

Only industry casuals have time for the BS that are the adobe forums..We come here for answers and we get evangelists

[Guest]

Adobe has dropped the ball, not just by the lack of clear communication but also by employing shills like Warren who post nonsense instead of addressing legitimate concerns.

[Guest]

Hey, so this just installed itself today out of nowhere along with some other dodgy looking lårt I've never heard off. I have the Adobe CC student edition for classes, but never ever installed this or even heard of it. I exclusively do video editing and graphics design, never any 3D design, ever. Why did it randomly install itself today? How do I uninstall it? Is it safe to be here? I have a lot of questions about this dodgy fårking practice. Is it even legal? I know that TOS/EULA is not a legal contract in the eyes of the law.

Nevermind, this wont go anywhere. Seeing as I don't plan on ever coming back to this forum anyway I'll do you a favour and tell you that you, Warren, are out of touch with reality. Your arrogance (stupidity? Hanlon's Razor here) is laughable and disgusting.

[TrendyWhistle]

Yeah, Warren, you're insane, please just get out of this discussion.

Yeap, TOS and EULA are not enforceable and are totally pointless, but unless someone can cough up the money and time to sue them we're out of luck.

To add to this, I am not opposed to C4D integration, but I am opposed to the standalone software being installed (which apparently is not required for the C4D integration to even work in the first place, so why is it even there?

Even though I know that C4D is, having it randomly appear in my computer is still worrying because I don't even know who installed it - I had to google this to find out adobe was installing it on my computer. This is an insane practice that can't be justified at all, if they decided to install other things, how will we be informed? What are our options?

I went to vote for the linked topic up top, but I'd be surprised if that goes anywhere anyway. This isn't about just C4D but adobe's practice as a whole. I don't trust them anymore. I used to just have problems with specific updates but this is a much bigger problem that I really struggle to ignore. My career is built on AE animation and premiere, but this is getting me to consider completely dropping the software and trying to figure something else out of nowhere now, even though there aren't any proper alternatives either.

[Warren Heaton]

Not requried?  How would you open C4D project files without at least Cinema 4D Lite?

[Warren Heaton]

There's Blackmagic Devinci Resolve (edit/color) and Fusion (effects/motion).  The non-studio versions are free.  You just install Resolve and you get Fusion and Farlight with it (sound familiar?).

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products#davinci-resolve-and-fusion-software

[Guest]

Warren, that's not an apt comparison by a stretch. They are all Davinci products! And Fusion is literally integrated INTO Resolve, you don't get a separate install of Fusion clipped into your Davinci install without a mention and FURTHERMORE, the thing you continually omit in your asinine replies-  Fusion is HEAVILY FEATURED ON THE RESOLVE LANDING PAGE! You constantly try to put this into terms as though the community is insane for even wondering that a product from a completely different company is suddenly installed on their machines without their permission or mention. If C4D, why not Rhino? Why not Microsoft Word? Why not VLC? You're absolutely off the mark there and I agree with others on doubting your sanity, and it's absolutely ridiculous you keep pushing this and normalizing Adobe betraying their customers' trust by installing software without their permission. It doesn't matter how you spin it, nobody is going to be looking up support articles because they can't possibly expect this absolutely unfathomable thing to happen. Are you going to just keep posting nonsense here that prompts others to doubt your ability to do basic arithmetic? I'm absolutely disgusted with your nonsensical and insulting assertions that the comparisons you draw are apt and relatable to our situation. The thing at hand here is, if Adobe doesn't even so much as bother to tell us this software is being installed IMAGINE what else Adobe installs without your permission? Shame on you Warren.

[Warren Heaton]

If you feel that having Rhino, Microsoft Word, or VLC Player integrated into After Effects is of some value to creating motion graphics and special effects, by all means, request it.  (Personally, I'd love some type of text file based notes integration directly into AE.  You may be onto something with support for opening and editing .doc and .docx files directly in AE.  I'd vote for that on the User-Voice pages.)

Integrating Cinema 4D was a response to bringing real 3D to After Effects after the AE team's Ray-Traced 3D approach was abandoned.  It was a long-standing user request ever since the 3D Layer Switch was introduced a very long time ago.

If Adobe had not included Cinema 4D Lite, there would very likely be users requesting it in some form or another.

Cinema 4D integration, including Cinema 4D Lite, was heavingly featured when it was new to After Effects.  I assume you read the New Features section of Adobe's web site?  Now it is simply found in the User Manual.  While Adobe even offers some free tutorials on Adobe.com, some of the better training for Cinema 4D Lite with After Effects is available through LinkedIn Learning.  Also, I'm sure that you've noticed that there's no shortage of YouTube videos on the topic.

I'm not sure why you're insulted by someone who finds the integration of Cinema 4D to be a _really_ good thing.  That is something that I can only leave you to reflect upon.

You may also notice that I'm the one being directly attacked in this thread.  How is that remotely appropriate in a user forum?  The footprint one leaves on social media follows one everywhere.

[Guest]

You dodge the point yet again with trumpian precision, and you’re right that your interactions online are perpetual. That goes for us both, with me invalidating your ability to understand basic user concerns, and your flippant troll responses to replies on this thread. Lots of folks have automatic updates turned on, meaning that change logs may not be seen until after the install. It’s absolutely inexcusable that third party software is installed without explicit user consent. By that I don’t mean “it’s mentioned in the change logs” or “it can be dug up somewhere in the manual through search”. It’s a scummy thing to do. It’s
scummy when software installs unwanted browser extensions, it’s scummy when Microsoft does it on a fresh OS install, and it’s scummy when anyone else does it, and it erodes trust in company that’s already worn most of its trust away by this point by consistently disregarding user control. Again, just to reiterate, because I’m sure you’ll sidestep it, this conversation is about user control, not C4D integration. You don’t strike me as someone who would value consent or retention thereof.
I look forward to the day when non-Adobe solutions meet my requirements so I can switch away and never look back.

[ben_worldcoppersmith]

I wholeheartedly agree, this is rediculous...get C4D out of this package unless you are going to include it in my subscription. 

[Guest]

Please VOTE! Here: https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911311-after-effects/suggestions/40537858-opt-out-of-the-in...

[Warren Heaton]

Cinema 4D Lite is included in your Creative Cloud subscription.

It would be _amazing_ if Adobe could work out an agreement with Maxon that allows us to include Cinema 4D Broadcast or Cinema 4D Studio in our subscription so we do not have to purcahse and install those separately.

[rtijn]

Hi Warren Heaton clone with a different profile pic. If you read Ben's comment properly, he said he does not want C4D. Stop trying to sell this.

Yes, it would be great if a full version of C4D would be included in the Creative Cloud. But with a separate installer, as it should be. Not this bloatware stuff.. Now please get off your Adobe justification horse and try to help and represent us, the community, like you should. We're the customers here. Try to assume that we do know what we're talking about. For a change..

[Warren Heaton]

It is not bloatware.  It is a fully-functional version of Cinema 4D.  Ideally, it would include all of the Mograph features.  Maxon provides three Mograph components if you register it.

I am a customer, too.  Having an application that retails for thousands of collars included is a good thing.

[rtijn]

That something is free and normally costs $100 million, doesn't mean that it's good, nor that I want it. Also, it's a fully functional LITE version. Which is kind of an important detail.

You keep pushing this like it's the best thing that ever happened. But it's not. There are plenty of other 3d applications that are amazing in their own right. It's great to have option to install c4d, but its horrible to have it forced without your knowledge or consent.

Just curious, can you show us some of your amazing work that you, as an 'equal customer like us', have made thanks to this C4D/AFX integration?

[Warren Heaton]

It's not free, it's included.

It would be a mistake to think that Lite means that it's not a fully functional version of Cinema 4D.  It could have just as easily been called "Cinema 4D Base".  It just needs something to distinguish it from Cinema 4D Broadcast and Cinema 4D Studio.  

Having the ability to create 3D text is an amazing feature, especially in how it allows you to leverage the Text Animator in AE with the 3D Text of Cinema 4D.  That's a very, very, very, very good thing. 

"but its horrible to have it forced without your knowledge or consent."  Regarding this, in addition to the user manual, how else would you like users to be informed about the software that they are using?

Also, what's with making this personal?  In addition to being an Adobe Community Professional (top 10 for correct forum answers in 2019 _and_ it's a volunteer position), I'm IATSE 800.   If either of those is on your career path, I genuinely hope you get there.

[jeffarnold27]

This has been a fascinating example of modern communication. Speaking without listening. I can't believe you just asked, "in addition to the user manual, how else would you like users to be informed about the software that they are using?" 

Are you kidding me? Did you forget the rest of the 2 pages of conversation in this thread? The multiple users mentioning that they would like options during the installation process? At the very least notifications of what was being installed, so users who haven't read the user manual (which is essentially all of them) know that the software suddenly installed on their PC is related to After-Effects? I mean, a few posts ago you yourself said "I agree that the installer should provide an option for a custom install." Did you forget that you said that?

This entire conversation has been you ignoring what is being said by everyone else involved, and then talking down to them like children, while highlighting your own accolades. 

It's been downright hysterical, if I'm being honest. /grabs popcorn

[Warren Heaton]

I have always agreed that it would be great if Adobe provided a Custom Install through this entire thread.

I have also pointed out that this forum is not the place to make that happen and have directed participants to where they could get this request in front of the Adobe Team.  So far, only one participant has done so.  It currently has 8 votes as of Thursday, January 18.

[Guest]

It's not about "it would be great", it's "this is absolutely necessary to do so". Your responses were far from universally in support of it, rather sassily downplaying the importance of individual user control by aggrandizing the newly included features.

[Warren Heaton]

I have also said that I would vote for it if someone adds it to the User-Voice page.

What did get posted over there (and has been linked to in this thread) is not something I would support.

I was around when this was added and I've used it more times than I can count.  If for some reason I didn't need it, I'm happy with the option to uninstall it.  Maybe I'm an outlier here, but I read the user manuals.

[Guest]

I think most folks don’t bother with user manuals unless a major new
release is happening and even then this kind of thing is out of left field,
it shouldn’t be hidden in a manual if it installs a 3/4gb package into your
Applications folder.

[omidsolo]

Yeah our stats shows this clearly, most of our customers don't read help files or manuals, instead they send a support request and wait few hours for the response which is just in the front of them! However, in this case, just informing the customer that we're filling your system with bloatware does not make any sense!

[rtijn]

Oh yes, now you're all reasonable and mr helpful. While just moments ago you were trolling about adding MS Word to AE and what you posted (and removed) on the vote page was very inappropriate. Like the majority of your comments here.

It's concering that you let this discussion build up unnecessary to a point of frustration from all sides and only then you decide to respond seriously and ask the right question. This is whole thing is taking up a lot of extra time from all of us which is completely unnecessary. I find hard to believe you can enjoy this unless you either get paid or if you get off on it as a troll feeling high and mighty with your condescending tone and your top10 whatever. I'd prefer it if you were at the bottom of the top 10000 but at least were open to reasoning and could show some empathic capabilities. That would probably get you a lot more appreciation.

On topic (I wish this entire conversation could be): It should not be sneaked onto my system. However you spin it, it's just not right. How often do you think anyone reads the EULA, let alone rereads it on every update? And even if so, what do you suggest? Not install AE and quit my job? Or uninstall C4D after installing AE? It should not have been there in the first place. Having to uninstall it, is a rediculous extra step for wanting to install AE.

The way I would like to be informed about the option to install C4D Lite is via the 'new in AE' panel upon starting the AE. And then have the option to install it from the creative cloud. Like any other software Adobe offers. Alternatively, at a bare minimum, there should be a popup upon installation of AE, asking if you also want C4D lite. With the option to say no.

It doesn't matter how well it's integrated or how nice the 3d letters look, it's a separate program and should be treated as such. Photoshop, Illustrator and Premiere make very important additions to AE. They're not automatically installed either.

Of course I believe that some (or even many) people have great benefits to a collaboration between C4D and AE. But I think Adobe would do a better job of convincing users of the value if they would just inform, try to excite users and offer the option to install it, instead of force-feeding it. Because that makes me doubt things and makes me want to look at alternatives.

You keep saying its a 'very very very very good thing', but that's not really a way to convince anyone (above 4 years old), of anything. So instead of your personal opinion, I was curious about your creative work. Because I think that might speak more for itself and could do a better job at convincing. I work with motion graphic designers from broadcasters and I know some very skilled CGI guys, and they are not all that positive about this whole C4D/AE integration. Most of them call it a joke. It doesn't seem to work that well in the real world and it doesn't give much of an edge over any other 3d software.

Also, I don't understand why you wouldn't vote for the user voice vote here. To me it seems to be literally what you're saying you would support: an option to opt out of installing it. Besides that, the guy already has a license and installation of C4D, which makes it all the more annoying to have the extra instances (yes, plural) that AE brings. Why would you even want to down-vote that as you commented there earlier?

I believe you've done a lot of Adobe homework, read all the EULA's and books. And I'm sure you worked hard to get into the top 10 and into the art directors guild. Both of them do deserve respect. But that also doesn't mean that you're right. Looking at literally all the comments here, could you please consider that maybe you're wrong and maybe it has not been the best way and tone to approach paying customers' concerns?

[Warren Heaton]

I don't need to sell it.  If you've subscribed to After Effects, we already have it.

[Warren Heaton]

I have always agreed that it would be great if Adobe provided a Custom Install through this entire thread.

I have also pointed out that this forum is not the place to make that happen and have directed participants to where they could get this request in front of the Adobe Team.  So far, only one participant has done so.  It currently has 8 votes as of Thursday, January 18.