AIR33 Where is it?

[Leo Kanel]

Is it me or AIR33 Beta is delayed? We are a few days before April and there is no beta version yet. It looks like the 1st quarter release is missed.

[DaveCates]

Totally agree!

We've created our own UI app framework for creating commercial apps, not games - we have several high profile apps published across Android and iOS which use it. It's bit like Feathers but, in my opinion, much easier and flexible to skin for more bespoke looking apps which also combine standard UI components. Maybe though we just never understood the Feathers skinning system though! But, our framework adopts the PureMVC framework as well so has a great basis for significantly complex apps.

Now we have some certainty around Air's future I'm interested in exploring how to open up this framework to the wider community.

I'm all for being optimistic! Going over to Xamarin or persevering with React Native was not a prospect I was looking forward to...

[Frédéric C.]

Thank you Dave for considering releasing your UI system,  it's very interesting!  Is it based on Starling or standard display list? I'd love to have a UI system based on display list, as I don't use Starling. Cheers!

[federicor30206780]

PippoApps  escribió

....

So, let's clear this space from what our "guts" suggest us, and keep this discussion going to give Andrew insights from the developers point of view, without wasting his time with our emotions.

Can't be more agree !

[davidrenelt]

I'm not reading this as a positive development. I've seen similar things in the past were a technology that was failing on the market was handed around a couple of times, but the core problem isn't even the company that drives the thing. Once the community and widespread adoption is gone, there is little chance of even the most outrages business model to work out.

[ASWC]

I agree, at first without much information I said there might still be hope for this technology after all. But after getting more information I really don't see how this is not just the end for AIR and a very quick and fast end on top of it. I thought AIR would likely be dead by 2021, I was wrong it's actually 2019 and I must say I did not see that coming. Adobe gave time for Flash developers to adapt, they gave no time at all for AIR developers. AIR is dead for Adobe in June 2019, done, they give it away and good luck to you all.

As for HARMAN, it's not that difficult to read between the lines, they say they had secret "talks" with Adobe for a LONG time but now, June 2019, they got AIR, have no AIR forums, have no AIR roadmap, have no AIR plans or goal announced anywhere and their communication is about one guy coming to the Adobe forums to post here and there, cos you know, they had such a LONG TIME to prepare. In all likeliness, the business model is cashing out on all developers/companies that still have AIR apps in store and need extra time to switch tech. Then when the income is too low HARMAN will just remove AIR from circulation and that will be it.

HARMAN is also useful for Adobe since they take all AIR responsibilities away from Adobe, it's sort of a mini musical chair system. Adobe is not supposed to pull the plug on AIR dead cold, but by giving it away to another company, they get rid of any AIR responsibility and commitment, HARMAN on the other hand can pull the plug anytime, even tomorrow, and you'll get no one to complain to or blame. It's good for Adobe since they get rid of something they wanted to get rid of for a long time, it's good for HARMAN since they might make a few bucks with very little risks, and of course that's all bad for all AIR developers that didn't want to listen to people like me for years and CHOOSE to NOT use another technology despite having YEARS to do it.

It gives me no pleasure to be right, but I was right about Flash and I was right about AIR and I posted for years on these forums to HELP people make the right decisions. Those who find themselves stuck with this dead technology with no replacement can ONLY blame themselves Today. You had the information, you didn't believe it, it's your OWN fault, all the SIGNS were there and you didn't want to see them.

Special mention to zwetan_uk for being so wrong about so many things .... No, AIR is not "fine", everything is not "normal", Adobe is not still "committed" ....

[ajwfrost75]

To add some more details in case this helps: this had been long in discussions but we didn't know if it was going ahead until very recently. So internally we'd limited our investment to the software engineer efforts involved in the immediate concern of the 64-bit Android platform, and that remains the team's primary focus for the next month or two.

From a business perspective, rather than letting AIR just decline away, we believe it makes more sense to encourage people to stick with the technology and even to try to build this up so that new people come to it. However, I do realise that all you're getting currently is just words from me and we don't yet have the proper structures in place for this (website, marketing, roadmap etc), so I can see where you're coming from. We've got a bit of a slow start currently but are aiming to start getting these up and running shortly!

Thanks

[chaky]

Andrew,

How we will be notified about new Android 64bit SDK you are working on. Should we monitor this forum for notification or some other site.

How much more time is needed until first Android 64bit enabled SDK from you guys is available for download? Any estimation, it does not have to be precise date and time.

Regards,

Caslav

[ajwfrost75]

Hi

We'll notify about the beta via the mailing list of people who have registered their interest via the email address or website contact form, if all goes well then we're aiming for this to be released at the end of next week but it's dependent upon a successful test run! - first time we're doing all of this so there may be sudden issues, but I'm conscious that it may still be better to release a beta with known issues so that the community can start testing too, and updating ANEs etc.

ASWC - I'm not sure what logic is behind your statement, but I would actually like the direction of the AIR runtime to be more dictated by the community, so whilst we have our ideas, it would probably serve everyone better if we took input from apps/games developers before trying to finalise a roadmap. That said, we will try to get something published along with our website/portal, so I would hope it is definitely quicker than you fear 🙂

Keep the feedback coming though everyone, it's good to hear people's concerns as that helps focus our attention on what's important to the community!

thanks

  Andrew

[Frédéric C.]

Andrew,

This may be the paradox here: people want a roadmap, but have a hard time making proposals since the AIR runtime is already very complete. I have a few points to suggest though. Do you know of a place where we could make suggestions and where, ideally, people could vote for them? I think the adobe tracker is not the ideal place for that. Maybe there are ready-to-use solutions that you could consider, to allow for the community to make proposals and vote for them?

Edit: Trello might be a good candidate: create entries, comment and vote for them. Great tool for brainstorming and organizing ideas. An example: Trello

[Flipline]

First of all I wanted to thank Andrew for joining in the discussion here and for keeping everyone in the loop with how things are going on the forum and by email.  This year has been especially stressful with no communication from Adobe, so finally hearing some sort of information is a very nice change.  I understand that Adobe likely couldn't talk about much while the deal with Harman was in the works, but boy was it frustrating when Adobe went months without even acknowledging that Android even HAD a 64-bit requirement coming up!  Glad to hear about the progress towards Android 64-bit, since that's obviously the most pressing, and happy to hear that the team is gearing up for iOS support as well for whatever new requirements iOS 13 and iPadOS throw our way.

It's a shame that AIR was never heavily marketed to gain more traction, since it can pull off some truly impressive results, and it will be interesting to see if some promotion and marketing can lead to more developers checking it out.  For us personally, we started out as a Flash game development studio, and AIR has been instrumental for us getting our games quickly to mobile.  The fantastic part is that with AIR we can start by using most of the same source code from the original games, and then build on top of that with gameplay adjustments for multitouch and platform-specific needs.  Our original Flash games made heavy use of vector graphics for tens of thousands of unique assets, and with GPU Mode on mobile we've been able to use those same graphics with fantastic performance with just a handful of optimizations (GPU Mode performance is great on Android, but truly amazing on iOS with whatever development or fine-tuning was done there).

As far as feature requests or roadmap suggestions, the main thing we're looking for is keeping up with the app stores' changing requirements so we can keep using AIR for our releases and maintaining our existing apps.  Off the top of my head though, a few things that would be nice to have are streamlined support for packaging with Android Adaptive Icons (right now we're fudging it with sticking assets into the AIR SDK app_entry/res folders), supporting display cutouts/notches on Android (some way to retrieve DisplayCutout object info with bounding boxes and insets, since there are so many different types of cutouts on Android devices), and maybe autogenerating Assets.car for iOS if developers don't want to use XCode for that.  On the Starling forums I also saw users trying to get iOS Launch Storyboards to work instead of using the huge list of Launch Images we need to use now, though there were some issues with black screens flickering before startup, so getting that process streamlined or adjusted would be nice to have at some point.  In one of the older Adobe roadmaps there was also talk of adding GPU render mode for AIR Desktop, which in our case would be helpful as well for eventually making desktop releases for Steam/etc.

[Lars Laborious]

I totally agree with Flipline that keeping up with the app store’s changing requirements is the most essential.

We also use Animate for all our apps and games (50 in total on App Store and Google Play), so we were relieved to hear that Harman continues to work with the Animate team. There are essentially no other tools where you can design, animate and code in the same environment, which makes testing simple game ideas really fast for indies like us. And thanks to AIR, exporting to iOS and Android is easy.

[PippoApps]

In terms of marketing, it would be a win to display a regular stramlined workflow using Animate, nothing fancy, i.e.:

- Windows or Mac machine running Animate.

- Several devices attached to the same machine (on my table: iPad 3, iPad Pro, Android phone, Android tablet)

- Editing code in FlashDevelop

- Testing on desktop with CTRL-RETURN (3 seconds export), interacting with touch-screen monitor

- Testing on device, selecting device in AIR export window, choosing profile from Publish Settings, and testing on ipad first, reading ouptut on animate trace window

- Same test on Android

- Export for deploy

Total time: less than 15 minutes.

Another technology capable to offer the same workflow, simply doesn' exist.

We must let businesses know how convenient in terms of time and budget is AIR with Animate.

Plus, a few hello world ready apps.

Some tools to streamline icon creation and splashscreen creation (in Animate, adding all splashscreens is a cumbersome work).

Tutorials like "How to go from tests to App Store on iOS, for all screens and resolutions, with all icons and splashscreens, in 10 minutes using AIR + Animate", with Hello World source attached. (Could be useful to find a solution to give a test cert/provisioning, twisting around Apple policies).

We need to market AIR effectively. We have the undeniable advantages on our side, it can't be too hard.

[Lars Laborious]

Agreed, PippoApps​!

I think we who already develop AIR apps could contribute with tutorials and tips. (For instance we have a fla file where we design app icons and then with the help of AIR export png’s to all required sizes in one go.)

[TeotiGraphix]

I'm inclined to agree,I could keep going for years with AIR's graphics and multi-platform. I don't need to be a part of the vapor framework challenge that has been going on since 2011.

One thing I have yet to find elsewhere is the fact it's so easy to test my audio apps on the desktop(PC), then just go to Android and iOS with the same C++ and graphics framework.

The turn around developing is so fast.

[PippoApps]

With these hopes for the new life of AIR, I am willing to reopen my blog with tutorials, closed in 2010 (was PippoFlash, then I removed the F word).

And maybe publish my application framework with all toolset developed in over 15 years, that allows me and my collegues to create apps at the speed of light.

As I wrote in the earlier post, we have the undeniable advantages of AIR on our side.

Now we have a company to back the technology.

I am really excited.

In order to be less Adobe centered, we could also use more Starling forum and AS3Lang forum maintained by zwetan_uk​. Waiting with anticipation for Harman to provide marketing and community tools.

I feel like I am seeing a light at the end of a tunnel. I am glad I resisted all these years to the temptation of raising cash surrendering to React and Angular (nothing wrong with those, I just dislike them).

[TeotiGraphix]

I think this really comes down to a lot of devs still here know a hammer works awesome for what "we" need. AIR is THE hammer. The hammer is a hammer forever and does it's job to build things.

Well, I won't speak for others but, defending AS3 for as long as I did, maybe there was a reason.

If Harman takes this to where we all think they are aiming at, it's exactly what we thought should happen, just 8 years later, which isn't that long in tech when you are in it every day.

I was a fan boy in the past yes, but that is because I started with Flash 5 and just started creating!

[Frédéric C.]

OK, I just created a new thread dedicated only to new ideas and suggestions for an upcoming roadmap: Ideas and suggestions for new roadmap

PLEASE people, respect that space and use this new thread for ideas and constructive suggestions only. Thank you.

I hope it will be useful to ajwfrost75​ and his team. Let's be creative!

[William Spence]

And remember, guys, the success or failure of this new partnership is as much on our shoulders as it is on Harmans.  If we want to attract more developers to this platform, we have to show a creative and supportive environment.  If Harman makes positive moves forward with the tech, and we help one another on these forums and give Harman good feedback for future development, AIR has a much better chance of remaining around for the long term.  We have to invite people into our community, not scream at them to run for the hills.  We have to stop spouting doomsday scenarios, as they only ensure that everyone leaves out of fear and we cause our own doomsday.  AIR is a fantastic technology that we all agree gives us the most mature platform to deliver on the most devices with one codebase. I'm excited about all that is happening and feel encouraged about the future!

[ASWC]

I don't think those forums here are really what makes people not use AIR anymore or scare them away. As I said many times there are many cross platform dedicated forums and articles out there and AIR is not mentioned in there anymore. This is THE problem and this is what will need to change if AIR is to have any future. We can all spend all day long posting here 20 times a day how amazing AIR is it WILL NOT bring back people to the tech. This is actually the time (if there was ever any) where criticism of AIR on these forums is the most needed. HARMAN is reading those posts and they need to make AIR more relevant so what better way to give them clues than to tell them what's wrong with AIR. Right now if all you want to say is: "AIR is awesome" then you are NOT helping cos HARMAN has no use for it.

[bobbyb28776221]

If I understand this correctly you're suggesting that constructive criticism is useful, and I agree with that. I also agree that just saying "AIR is awesome" is not particularly useful so far as giving Harman ideas about what they might do to improve AIR and how it is perceived by the wider developer community - although you could argue that it may help in a general way to generate enthusiasm and encourage optimism.

However I would also say that purely negative comments like "AIR is dead for Adobe in June 2019, done, they give it away and good luck to you all" and unfounded speculation about what Harman intend to do ("As for HARMAN, it's not that difficult to read between the lines...") are not particularly helpful either. To me they sound like you'd be happy to see AIR fail, and that's not constructive.

[ASWC]

"AIR is dead for Adobe in June 2019" is not a negative comment but a fact. Don't force me to post the OFFICIAL Adobe released statement.

As for "As for HARMAN, it's not that difficult to read between the lines" they responded to it and I assume you did read their post and liked what it said? If so then you are welcome.

[bobbyb28776221]

"Dead" has obvious negative connotations, as does "and good luck to you all" in the context you used it. You might have said "Adobe is ending support for AIR and handing it off to Harman, let's hope they do the right thing and support it" but you chose to say it the way you did and it's very negative. As for reading between the lines, it seems that you like to read lots of negative things without any factual basis, which you're at liberty to do but I maintain is not constructive. Also, things like "Don't force me to post the OFFICIAL Adobe released statement" is a little aggressive and quite unnecessary.

[ZachBJ]

pessimistic people  please go away, and stop bringing toxic in this forum.

Just play with your new toy and shut up

[davidrenelt]

It's all a question of perspective. Saying "Adobe Air is Dead" is only "toxic" if it is not true. Adobe just dropped Air .. this is not a sign of a project thriving. Sure, it is always possible that the tech can have a comeback, but the situation is dire. In your mind, positivity can move mountains, and it's true that no mountain has ever been moved by people saying it can't be moved. But it's also true that only really tiny mountains have been moved overall.

So how big is the mountain? To big i say. It is not a question of who is doing what. There is no widespread adoption of the tech, and hype is something you can only invoke once when entering the market. I'm almost sure that the poor adoption of Air can't be reversed. So in my mind, by saying to you "Air is dead" i'm doing you a favor. The move to Harman gives you time, which is great, but I have no doubt in my mind that you will have to move, because the mountain wont.

[Frédéric C.]

it's true that no mountain has ever been moved by people saying it can't be moved.

I think you said it all: if you think it's lost, then it will be. In that regard, pessimists are almost always "right", because if they give up, nothing will happen, and they'll be able to say later "See? Told you so." But they generally don't take responsibility for the fact they didn't do anything to change things, and that they may have even worsened things by discouraging others.

I think this question is vastly broader than AIR. It is about human behavior. Some people give up. And some people fight for what they love. It doesn't guarantee that they will succeed, but if they're discouraged from the start, it's guaranteed they will fail.

Personally, I love AIR, I put a lot of efforts in my current apps, and I want to do whatever I can to keep working with it. I'm not naive, I don't need to be warned or "protected", and I know it won't be easy. But I also think there is still a chance for success, or at least a positive outcome. So please, don't discourage me and all the other people in my case, as the challenge is already big enough. Thank you.