Termination of financial support starling and feathers

[денисг22484613]

Guys, apparently the AIR is no longer an Adobe priority. Tell the developers when you are planning to end AIR support ?

[castik]

Hi Guys,

Any news from Adobe regarding support for 64 bit on Android? I think this is the most pressing issue at the moment.

There seems to be a tracker (Tracker ) opened on this issue with no response so far.

[ASWC]

That's ridiculous, yes they announced officially in 2017 the end of Flash but anyone that didn't see it coming long before that must have lived under a rock .... End of ASNext, end of Flash Builder, etc ... And I guess if you still don't see the end of AIR as well you must have gone back under your rock ....

[mrfrasier]

@ASWC

You're right in that I probably should not have called him a moron. I let my frustration with his circular and straw-men arguments get the best of me.

You're also right that AIR will one day die. Maybe this year, maybe in 10.

However, I don't feel jumping in to the discussion with "you're all wrong and I'm right that AIR will end one day" is particularly productive. After all, a broken clock is right at least twice a day.

Also, Adobe HAS added features to AIR. Each quarterly release has had something new along with bug fixes. It's not as much as many would like, for sure (and they walked back the Apple TV support), but it's SOMETHING.

I can't speak for others, but I've looked into various other options. For my uses, AIR is best, and as long as it is viable, I will continue to use it. Beyond that, I will likely go back to native on both platforms. Not ideal, but it is what it is.

All that said, I don't see anyone here asking Adobe for clarification on their current plans/vision to be whining or at all inappropriate. Maybe it will get a response, maybe it won't, but they're certainly more useful than "ha! I'm right, AIR is dying, go run away!" posts.

[ASWC]

I'm not saying anyone should run away and I'm not saying AIR or even Flash is bad and people should stop using it. I would prefer just work with Flash/AIR like in the past, so much easier, so much more performance, so much more of anything. I'll use that tech for all my projects if I could. But in my opinion Adobe is committing to AIR like it has committed to Flash in the past with the results we all know. The smart thing to do for all of us is to get ready for the worse and start diversifying our skill sets, no matter what's in the future for AIR we will all still have a job. That's all I'm saying. If some here think AIR is gonna be around for a long time I say fine, believe it, but diversify your skills anyway, it won't hurt.

Anyone still on these forums is somebody that still care about this tech and no matter their opinion on its future they will be sad to see it go away. I had years and years of fun with it and I've done some awesome stuff.

Yeah the "new" stuff with AIR is mostly maintenance in my opinion and has been for years. The Sound API, broken since FP10!! > never fixed and never will be. ASNext, dropped and will never see the day. AIR support for any new platform? > will never happen. Some new awesome API for mobile? desktop? anything? > will never see the day. It is hard today to find a tech that has made so little improvements in so many years, it has followed the minimum requirements of desktop, mobile OS, it has followed the minimum latest OS framework versions, and that has been it for the past 6 years.

[Leo Kanel]

Free..Sure.. Try buying Flash Builder Premium. ($640!!!!).

I am with mrfrasier on this. I'd gladly pay if that meant, fast updates, increased support, etc.

[ZachBJ]

Thank you for people like you phonefusionryan​

Thats what I mean, you take bold move like that and giving thanks on what AIR taught instead worrying too much on it.

I still can't move on, but I accept the reality that Flash is NO LONGER the cool kid on the school , this gives impact on AIR too.

I accept that the "evangelists" are all gone , etc. etc. but I don't want blame anyone, anything. It is kinda complicated things we knew.

I  give my standing ovation for Flash/AIR Devs who take bold move like that instead of those who worrying too much on AIR future and hoping so much on Adobe

[rewb0rn]

Hey guys,

if you are worried that Air support might end in the future but you want to utilize it as long as possible, I can only recommend the Haxe technology. We are a 13 people company and have ported all our AS3 code to Haxe. The codebase was large, messy and has grown since 2009, with 6 games on all the platforms (Web, Facebook, Android, iOS, etc.). It took 2 people roughly 4 months to port all AS3 code to Haxe and create a swf output. This swf output is now being used with Air like before. In case Adobe will stop supporting Air, we can work on releasing the games with Haxe native builds for all platforms, like we have already done for HTML5.

So if you are desperately looking for ways to keep your Air apps going on without starting over from scratch, Haxe turned out to be a great option. I was sceptical but I'm super happy with the decision and the results we have now. They have Starling + Away3D support, too.

On a sidenote: I am convinced that Adobe will not stop Air support anytime soon. Sure, they are focusing the efforts and reducing the investment, but that can also turn out to be a good thing. Low cost means easy profit. If they wanted to get rid of Air, they would have announced the end of it together with Flash. They did the opposite.

Kind regards

PS: Just for the record, we would also be happy to pay more for Air if we get increased support! $1,000 a year per seat for companies with more than $100,000 turnover - done.

[Frédéric C.]

rewb0rn I'm also interested in Haxe as a backup solution, but what stops me is the lack of commercial ANEs compared to AIR. I know Haxe can output to AIR and use existing AIR ANEs, but here I'm talking of the scenario where AIR would not be updated any longer and we would have to build directly to iOS output. However I also don't believe Adobe's plan is to drop AIR soon, at least not brutally. Even with Flash player they showed they wanted to offer a smooth transition over several years, and they didn't even talk about dropping AIR support yet...

[ZachBJ]

Right. I have tried Haxe and OpenFL, but the experience is not that smooth.
Also , haxe doesnt have (yet) a comparable library that behaves like Flex/Feathers.

[mrfrasier]

@Frédéric C. That's a good point re: the transition of Flash. If I could play devil's advocate there though, Flash had MUCH more popularity and widespread use than AIR does, and there was Adobe's image to consider too after years of championing it. Quietly dropping AIR would go relatively unnoticed to ditching Flash would have IMO.

Still, so long as they patch it to keep up with Apple and Google's requirements or open source it, existing projects should be fine for a while.

[therobby3]

It's not Starling or Feathers that people worried about, I've always had full confidence in Daniel and Josh and they've always been extremely active and helpful.  Although by losing funding, I'm sure they will naturally not be able to focus as much on Starling and Feathers, and that's completely understandable.  It's AIR people are worried about.  I mean come on, this is obviously not good news however you want to look at it.  Ultimately Starling and Feathers depend on AIR, and if AIR stops being supported than Starling and Feathers will fade as well.

In the end, even at best if Adobe has said (or even if they come out and say it again) that they will continue to support AIR, then I think it comes down to actions speaking louder than words.  And ending support for those two major frameworks says a lot.  I realize they keep releasing updates, but we need a little more assurance.  Maybe even a reason for them ending support would be decent.

[phillipkerman]

Let's be real here.  It's (practically) over.  Adobe's silence is really simple: if they say anything they're obligated to answer to their shareholders.  Please prove me wrong. 

Anyone thinking I'm spreading FUD.  Well, sure.  What's biting me now is lack of a statement from Adobe.  It's a financial hit to me--their silence.  If they committed to support, that would impact how I treat a few ongoing projects... if they were forthcoming and simply said anything (even that "it's over") that would allow me to get funding for re-writes on some products.  As is their silence is unprofessional IMO.

[phonefusionryan]

It's over for me definitely... This is probably the last time I ever login to this account and make a post here.... over the last couple years Adobe has confirmed to me they just don't really care about AIR, at least as much as I did.... Having over the last year experimented with other mobile app technologies like Cordova, React Native, Ionic... going back to AIR always felt outdated... things like Live Reloading/Hot Reloading, remote debugging.... the fact that I can target the REAL web and not an outdated flash player. Having to always cross my fingers that Adobe will care about the current bugs I'm facing and hoping they fill fix them (There still a ticket for a bug I created over 3 years ago that's unsolved that I still get updates from other people facing and hoping for a fix as well, Tracker​ ... and that was AIR 19... we are on 32... still not fixed)... or having to create an ANE just to bypass a bug...And even Josh himself has been posting/experimenting with the likes of React/etc.... it's just time to move on, CLEARLY

Thank you Adobe for creating AIR. I will never forget what it taught me!

[Frédéric C.]

And in the meantime, a new beta version of AIR 32 is published that fixes the warnings when submitting apps to the Apple app store Thank you Adobe!

[PedroFernandezEteria]

The key to the issue must be analyzed globally. We can not just look at the first tree in the forest ("Adobe has stopped funding two open source projects").

Adobe has no real interest in the Flash / Adobe AIR ecosystem. If they continue updating it is because there are still some developers who use the technology, and not to cause a stir (and with it the possible loss of customers).

From my point of view Adobe was wrong with its decisions from 2011 to the present. What they did was go to the easy way. Follow the game to the rest of the industry, when they were the ones who had the winning horse already running on the track (they did not have a product that was "smoke" like html5 back then). They would have won for sure. But they (the shareholders) did not want to risk.

Therefore, what I think is that if by the shareholders of Adobe were, right now they would stop updating everything related to Flash, because they are spending money on a product that is actually free for developers. You have to remember that not only do they have to update the technology, but there are also a number of parts in the runtimes that Adobe has to pay in the form of licenses (eg: video), and that money has no return on investment for them.

I dont think they are going to stop updating it right now. I do not believe it at all. I sincerely believe that they will finish all the points of the last planning (eg: Android 64bits). But I also think that when they finish that, they will be a few years only updating it to work to the latest versions of android, ios, windows, mac, but from there they will cut forever.

This does not mean either that you should stop using Adobe AIR right now. We will continue using it for a series of projects, because it is the most agile development platform for them. And it will not stop working overnight. But it can mean that you have to start looking for other alternatives for the future.

In our development department we are analyzing several possibilities. Among others haxe / openfl. It is much simpler and similar to Flash / AIR / AS3 than any other solution on the market. For example, you can work with a similar workflow with swf's, which greatly facilitates the positioning of design elements without having to export a lot of images from a separate application and having to then program all that in a less agile development environment and workflow.

On the other hand, it is true that Haxe has a series of drawbacks for us:

- The first time you try it, it is complicated to start the whole environment to compile each platform.

- The fact that there is no multiplatform solution to integrate video, is something that throws us back. For us, the integration of video is very important, because we do not work as much in games as in interactive ones.

- Another problem is the tweening engines in haxe. There are very few. The most updated is Actuate, and it is not even remotely "greensock" (which we use for many projects in Adobe AIR). There are also no signs of porting greensock in the future. So there are few options in this regard ...

- There is much less information and code online. Fewer libraries.The problem of ANEs, etc.

As we commented in a thread of the starling forum: "Reinventing the wheel is one of the stupidities of the human being, and at least in the technological field it does so frequently ..."

[ZachBJ]

"Reinventing the wheel is one of the stupidities of the human being, and at least in the technological field it does so frequently ..."

Couldn't agree more .

Despite Adobe's commitment and unresolved AIR bugs, it is totally HARD for me to find another toolkit that offer 'everything in balance' like AIR and Flash did. Thats why I stick with it.

[DQvsRA]

I don't understand why they don't sell it to someone who can continue to work on the technology maybe rename/rebrand it, make 3D engine and editor and sell it to other, like Unity did, how come they did it?

[Leo Kanel]

Who would buy this? Not a big user base, no revenue model, outdated, comes with a bit of bad reputation. With this in mind, the money they could get, is not enough to convince the shareholders / board it worth the effort.

[rewb0rn]

Extremely mature technology with a dedicated and committed developer base and a heavily underdeveloped business model around it, who would not buy it? I think the potential is huge.

[Leo Kanel]

Although it is true that the technology is mature, it is not ground breaking (like no AR/VR capabilities, not even consoles). Concerning dev base, in 2017, unity had more than 6 million registered devs with 1.5 million being active per month. I wonder how many were in AIR.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see AIR going to a company which wants to make it better, but I dont think this is happening ever.

[PedroFernandezEteria]

From my point of view, everything depends on the needs of each developer or team of developers.

The type of projects that can be done with Unity (eg) has nothing to do with the type of projects that can be done with the Flash ecosystem based on its Runtimes.

For us, working in 2d interactive (point of information, etc), is the type of project or the medium that has the fastest return on investment.

Sometimes it is not a matter of doing groundbreaking things, but practical products. Pragmatism.

Working with Unity (or similar), involves more complete development teams, larger projects, greater investment, etc. Working with other "equivalent" technologies to Flash 2d, implies longer development times...

Maybe some of you are exclusively developing games. In that case I can understand the opinions. We do a little bit of everything, and there is no other technology in the market that allows us to address so many types of (multimedia) projects in such short times.

That is the strength of the Flash ecosystem. An Authoring Multimedia Environment (ecosystem) in the old way. But it seems that current developers like to waste more time working on other technologies without protest ... It's incredible ...

[Leo Kanel]

Although most of what you say is true, if you only work with 2d, try Game Maker Studio. The transition is easy, the IDE is much better than what Flash offered and AIR currently offers, and the dev cycle is a lot faster. This will make your life much simpler and it will also allow you to target, mobile, desktops, steam, UWP, Facebook, even consoles if you want to. We started using it for games when facebook removed flash compatibility and we never looked back.

Unity & Unreal are the best option for 3d.

AIR still has the fastest dev cycle for mobile apps, although a lot is missing. We still use it for 90% of our projects, but due to the lack of communication, we are transitioning to flutter. After all, I can't risk my teams future and not having a plan b.

#31_days_left

[rewb0rn]

There is so much bias in your message... Facebook never removed Flash compatibility, or at least I do not know what you are referring to. Our games were still running on Facebook Canvas in Flash 3 weeks ago. What is missing in Air for mobile exactly? Because I am not missing anything. I am happy to hear that flutter works for you, but maybe some of us are not interested in starting over with a new technology. Who guarantees that Flutter or Game Maker Studio will last longer than Air? After all, those are private companies, too, and they probably have their own doom prophecies haunting their communities as well.

And last point, that hashtag #31_days_left is really stupid, as if we are counting down towards Armageddon. I don't know about your studio, but we have been several times in a situation were we could not release upgrades because there were problems in the latest Air SDK for our build and older versions would not be supported anymore by Apple. I am totally okay if Adobe takes 32 or 40 days to release a fix, like we have seen in the past. Okay we got it, you are unhappy with the current situation, and I agree, good that you move on. But please spare us your doom visions.

[Leo Kanel]

I could be wrong but last time I checked, I was not able to add AIR games in Facebook Gameroom. As i was not in charge of that project, I could be wrong so in that case, please do share info on how to add AIR games there.

For mobile we miss plenty, compared to the other cross platform fws, like a good map library for example, or a working Sound System, but t his has to do more with what you build.

Concerning other fw (like flutter or gm), the guarantee is huge dev communities, even bigger investments, clear roadmap, good communication etc. By the way, flutter is opensource, so you don't have to wait for the private company to solve your problems.

Lastly about the # days. With more than 40 apps for high profile clients and millions of users, blocked out of updates will be an Armageddon for sure. I get it that if you are a hobbyist or run as a freelancer it isn't that important, but having to report to people above you why you can't update the client apps is important.

[DQvsRA]

Absolutely agree, mature technology, the power of AIR/Flash technology in it's eco system, graphics and animations directly connected with code and it's all vector, I can ship 100 illustrations in less than 5 FHD png file rasterized in real time giving users best image quality ever.