Can't get ASIO driver to work with S/PDIF input

Report · Nov 14, 2016

This is an Adobe Audition CS6 question. I've installed a new internal sound card in my Windows 10 PC. It has an optical S/PDIF input (and output). I am trying to record audio from a BD player using this optical input and the sound card's ASIO driver. But CS6 won't let me - it sees the sound card's ASIO driver, sure, but when I select it, I get the old "Device could not be opened" error message and CS6 won't start. I can only record by flipping over to MME and using the sound card's S/PDIF input offered under that heading.

I have a theory as to why I can't use the sound card's ASIO driver. I think it's because Audition is a player AND a recorder and it won't function with any ASIO driver unless input and output are both connected to the same device.

Is that right?

I don't have any problem using the sound card's ASIO driver when playing back with JRiver using the sound card's driver. But my theory is that that's because JRiver is only a playback app.

Here's a link to the soundcard I'm using:

StarTech PEXSOUND7CH

Report · Nov 14, 2016

What bit rate are you recording at? If it works with MME, then there's a good chance that Microsoft is doing an on-the-fly sample rate conversion it's not telling you about. A rate mismatch would be all it takes; it's unlikely to be sync-related, as Audition can choose where it gets its sync from. If my idea is correct, it will already be getting it from the correct input - just not at an appropriate rate.

Report · Nov 14, 2016

Thank you very much for answering.

I'm trying to record 176.4 kHz. (It's the DSD layer of an SACD, converted on the fly to PCM at 176.4 kHz, 24 bits, before it leaves the Blu-ray player.)

The PCM stream comes out of the HDMI output of the Blu-ray player. Then it goes into an HDMI de-embedder. Then it comes out of the optical output of the de-embedder, still at 176.4 kHz, and into the optical input of my PC where it is received by the StarTech sound card at 176.4 kHz. I have opened a new Audition file with the resolution set at 176.4 kHz, 24 bits.

I know you'll think this chain is a bit crazy but I've used it many times before with complete success using an external sound card connected to the PC by USB. And also, it works completely successfully right now, using MME. So I know the chain is OK.

I think the problem is:

a) Audition can't see an ASIO device that is connected only by an optical SPDIF cable, and therefore it thinks no ASIO device is connected and therefore it sends an error message. Or,

b) It CAN see the ASIO device connected by SPDIF but it refuses to acknowledge it because it can only see an input for the device and not an output, and therefore it doesn't feel it has proper control of the device and therefore it sends an error message.

I should also mention that I have another ASIO device connected to the PC by USB, which Audition is able to see and use. Of course, the obvious thing to do is to disconnect that other device and get it out of the way. But if I do that, I can't even open ASIO in the Device Class options at all! Which, in my view, does tend to confirm that Audition simply can't see an ASIO device connected only by SPDIF. It knows it's there because it's in the list of ASIO devices, but if you try to select it, Audition behaves as if the device were not switched on.

To put it simply:should Audition be capable of seeing an ASIO device connected only by an SPDIF cable, and even then, only by an input cable and not an output?

Report · Nov 14, 2016

richard-ec2 wrote:
To put it simply:should Audition be capable of seeing an ASIO device connected only by an SPDIF cable, and even then, only by an input cable and not an output?

I've never had any problem with this at all - Audition only needs to see a device with a valid clock signal (if it's S/PDIF it does depend sometimes on how the receiving sound device is set up to deal with sync - you might want to check that out), and it should be able to record it; you don't need a playback system in place for this to happen, the same as you don't need a record source for playback to work - just the correct sync settings in Audition and a device to output to

If you are talking about the latest release though, the 'not seeing ASIO' thing has the makings of a bug, as I've seen something very similar, but haven't tied it down yet. Do you have an earlier version to try it on? You should still be able to get 2015.2 to download and work, I think. If you have a device with a known ASIO driver, and for any reason you can't see it as being available, you should report it as a bug, especially if it shows up correctly on another version.

Report · Nov 14, 2016

I am using CS6, version 5.0.2, Build 7. Do you know whether this is bug-free? If not, I have the original installation disc from years back so I could always just install it anew and not accept any updates.

It's reassuring, what you say about Audition being able to operate an ASIO device using only an SPDIF input. I will have to think a bit more about whether it's receiving a valid clock signal and whether it is syncing properly. As I say, it works in MME so I don't really see why it shouldn't work in ASIO but I need to think about that some more.

But I'm still not sure about not needing an playback system in place. You say I need "a device to output to" but surely that can't be different from the ASIO device I'm recording from? I know that's permissible in MME and maybe that's why I don't have any problems there but I thought ASIO was very particular about only controlling one device at a time.

Report · Nov 14, 2016

Steve, I was following up your suggestion of checking clock signals, sync etc and I've stumbled upon a problem - it looks as if the ASIO driver they've installed on my PC is 64 bit. I guess that could be the answer so I will have to see if there's a 32-bit option. I'll look in the installation folder but if I can't find one there, I will have to email StarTech in Taiwan so it could be a while before I find out whether the 32-bit driver works.

Many thanks indeed for your help - I would never have discovered this if you hadn't pointed me in the right direction!

Report · Nov 14, 2016

Yes, you'll definitely need a 32-bit ASIO driver for CS6.

Report · Nov 15, 2016

OK, things have moved forward a bit.

I downloaded a trial version of Audition CC and tried the same setup. It works flawlessly with my soundcard in ASIO mode!

I then went back to CS6 and tried reinstalling CS6 from my old installation disc. As a result, I have now gone back from Version 5.0.2, Build 7, to Version 5.0, Build 708. (I also uninstalled the soundcard drivers beforehand and reinstalled them after doing the fresh CS6 installation, with lots of reboots along the way.) However, this older version of CS6 still refuses to load the ASIO driver for my soundcard.

I'm wondering if CS6 can't find a 32-bit ASIO driver for the sound card. And yet... CS6 can SEE the ASIO driver for the soundcard because it appears in the list of available ASIO devices in the Device Class drop-down list. Surely, it wouldn't even see the driver if it was only available in 64 bits? Second, as far as I can see, the driver installation folders do include both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the ASIO drivers and so the 32-bit driver does appear to be available to CS6, though I can't be certain about this.

Any thoughts?

Report · Nov 15, 2016

The only thing I can suggest (and I'd understand if you were reluctant to do this) would be to delete the entire preference folder for CS6 and try it again. The software will automatically install a 'vanilla' version, which should rediscover anything that's legitimately there to discover - if you see what I mean...

Report · Nov 15, 2016

richard-ec2 wrote:
I downloaded a trial version of Audition CC and tried the same setup. It works flawlessly with my soundcard in ASIO mode!

The newer versions of AA CC will be using the 64bit drivers since these versions of Audition are now all 64bit. Which might explain the difference between them and CS6 and ASIO drivers.

Report · Nov 15, 2016

OK, there's been another big development. It's nothing to do with bits, after all.

I tried deleting the entire preference folder for CS6 and although that did indeed make CS6 launch in plain vanilla flavour, it didn't make any difference to its inability to load the ASIO driver.

However, I then had an idea. I tried connecting other ASIO devices by a single SPDIF cable - and they didn't work, either. That showed it wasn't the driver that was at fault, after all.

I then had another idea. I tried connecting these other ASIO devices by two SPDIF cables, one for input and the other for output - and they worked flawlessly!

What I have found is that if I connect any ASIO device by a two-way street - either a USB cable or two SPDIF cables, in and out - it works. If I connect any ASIO device by a single SPDIF cable, either in or out, it doesn't work.

This is true of my CS6. But it is apparently not true of CC, where a single SPDIF cable does work with an ASIO device.

I wonder if anyone using CS6 with Windows is able to verify or refute this? My contention is that it's impossible to use any ASIO device with CS6 if it's connected only with a single SPDIF cable - you must have either twin SPDIF cables or USB.

Report · Nov 15, 2016

This could very well be something to do with Sample rate matching. In MME audio driver mode you can select from within Audition's Audio Hardware Settings whether the input or output of the selected device acts as the Master sample clock. Whereas using ASIO this can't be selected from within Audition but has to be set within any software control panel supplied by the audio interface hardware manufacturer.

Report · Nov 15, 2016

Thanks but I honestly don't think it's sample rate matching because:

1. The driver refuses to open before it has any idea what sample rate you're planning to input or record at. You never even get that far because the driver won't open in the first place.

2. It wouldn't explain why Adobe Audition CC is able to run flawlessly with the same setup.

3. It wouldn't explain why other devices don't have this problem if connected with two S/PDIF cables, but do have this problem when connected with one.

Also, I have spent a lot of time trying different sample rates and nothing makes any difference.

What I really need to know is if anyone else is able to load and play through an ASIO driver using only one S/PDIF cable in CS6. Then I'll know for sure whether it's a CS6 problem or a problem with my setup.

Report · Nov 16, 2016

I downloaded a free DAW called Wavepad and that worked flawlessly with my SPDIF input too. So I'm ready to call Adobe out on this one. Unless or until anyone can demonstrate otherwise, there is a bug in Audition CS6 as follows:

Audition CS6 will not open any ASIO device if Audition CS6 is connected to the device only by a single SPDIF cable (either input or output). ASIO will only work with SPDIF if you are able to connect an input AND output cable to the SAME device.

Notes:

1. This bug has been corrected in Audition CC. Audition CC will play or record using only a single SPDIF connection..

2. The bug does not apply to MME recording/playback in CS6. Only ASIO.

3. The bug does not affect USB recording/playback in CS6. Only SPDIF.

I would be extremely happy if someone can prove me wrong but if not, I'm going to have to use a different DAW to record in ASIO via SPDIF. I wish I could buy CC but there's no way I'll sign up to a subscription model so I'll either invest in something else or just carry on with CS6 and use Wavepad or another free DAW for SPDIF recording.

Report · Nov 16, 2016

I was referring to the source of the Sample Rate's master clock rather than matching the Sample Rate itself. When using MME drivers in Audition you with certain audio interfaces you can select either the Input or Output as wordclock master. So if you were feeding in an external SPDIF source with the audio driver set to Output for master clock then things wouldn't work properly. You would need to set the external Input as master. But by connecting input and output the external device would be clock synched to the audio interfaces internal clock. Do the card manufacturers supply any software control app with the ASIO drivers?

There have been changes in the audio engine between CS6 and CC which might mean that Audition can now automatically sync to the correct clocking signal via ASIO or sample rate convert so that there isn't a problem. Unfortunately the drivers for your audio card seem to be supplied by Creative Audio who have rather a poor reputation when it comes to supplying ASIO drivers that work correctly.

Report · Nov 16, 2016

Oh, I see what you're saying now. That's very interesting and it sounds to me like a probable diagnosis for the problem - though unfortunately, without an accompanying cure!

First of all, the StarTech sound card is the PEXSOUND7CH

StarTech PEXSOUND7CH

and it uses the CM8828 chipset by C-Media Electronics

CM8828 chipset

The chipset uses the CM8828 driver supplied on StarTech's website. This comes with Xear software. The software allows you to choose input device, output device, and sampling rate for each input and output but as far as I know, the Xear interface only applies to MME audio and is by-passed when you're in ASIO mode so it's really irrelevant. I have tried various combinations of sampling rate settings and inputs and outputs but nothing makes any difference to my inability to open the ASIO driver.

When you ask if the card manufacturer supplies any software for the ASIO driver, there is just one thing. In the Xear software, there's a small ASIO button and if you click it, it opens a pop-up window and offers you the chance to change the buffer size (nothing else). The pop-up is headed "C-Media High Definition Audio Device (x64)" and that's what started me worrying about 32-bit and 64-bit. But I think it only says that because 64-bit is the default on my system and the driver has never yet been opened in 32-bit because Audition CS6 won't open it!

The reason why I currently hold CS6 responsible is that CS6 has this problem with all ASIO drivers, not just the C-Media driver - meaning, CS6 cannot open any ASIO driver to a device connected with only one SPDIF cable.

I seem to remember that CS6 always had a peculiarity with syncing that was unique to CS6. I can't remember the exact details but I remember running up against this in the past and I think that's why I'm having all these problems. I don't have these problems using this sound card with any other DAW.

Report · Nov 17, 2016

I downloaded another DAW with interesting results. This time it was PreSonus Studio One Prime.

First I downloaded it in the 32-bit version to mimic as far as possible CS6. Studio One was able to see and load the 32-bit driver in my sound card without any problem and looked as though it was going to work. However, when I hit the record button, the transport would not move.

I then downloaded the 64-bit version of Studio One. This time it saw and loaded the 64-bit driver in my sound card without any problem. Again, everything looked fine and it looked as if it was going to work but when I hit record, the transport would not move.

I then downloaded a completely different DAW - this time iZotope RX5. This loaded the soundcard driver without any problem and recorded flawlessly.

My takeaways from this are:

1. It's not the driver that's causing the problem. The correct version loads with 32 or 64 bit programs.

2. Some DAW software programs just will not work in ASIO mode when only one S/PDIF cable is connected. Adobe Audition CS6 is one example and PreSonus Studio One Prime is another. However, other DAWs will work quite happily in this mode, including Adobe Audition CC, the free NCH WavePad and iZotope RX5. It does not seem to matter whether it's a 32-bit or 64-bit program.

So I think that probably wraps it up. Whatever the reason, CS6 just will not work in ASIO mode with only one S/PDIF cable attached and that's that. If there are any other comments I'd be delighted to hear them but I think it's just a case of using a different DAW. Many thanks for all the help given here.

Report · Nov 17, 2016

Whilst it would be rather hard to prove, I suspect that this issue may have its roots in the fact that under a 64-bit OS, all 32-bit software is running in an emulator. Emulators are never guaranteed to be trouble-free - especially with anything that has to punch a hole clean through them, as ASIO does, in theory. The problem here is that you have to 'persuade' the 64-bit system ASIO to accept the translation from the 32-bit one, and I can see all sorts of areas for trouble here. I have to say though that iZotope have always been very good at sorting these things out from the outset, so I'm not so surprised that RX5 (although it is rather limited as a DAW in many ways) works.

The reason that I'm saying this is because I regularly used CS6 with a single S/PDIF connection with no difficulties at all, but this was on a 32-bit OS...

Report · Nov 17, 2016

That sounds like a very plausible theory, Steve. It's certainly true that in my few experiments, I haven't been able to find a 32-bit DAW that would run the ASIO driver successfully on my 64-bit PC. The only fact that doesn't quite fit is that the 64-bit version of PreSonus Studio One Prime wouldn't run the driver on my PC either, at least in my brief experiment. But maybe that was for some other reason.

Drivers, eh - dontcha luv 'em?

BTW, I need to modify my statement that CS6 won't work in ASIO with only one SPDIF cable attached - clearly it worked for you with your 32-bit PC so I'll confine that theory to 64-bit PCs.

Report · Nov 17, 2016

Oh no - it gets even more complicated.

I just realised that iZotope had installed TWO versions of RX5 on my Windows 10 64-bit PC - the 32-bit version AND the 64-bit version. So of course, I had to try both!

Now, the 64-bit version worked flawlessly - no problems at all.

If Steve's theory is correct, we would expect the 32-bit version to fail And it did - up to a point, Here's what happened.

When I hit the record button, the transport wouldn't move and I received the following error message: "Recording is disabled because the clip's sampling rate is not supported by the selected input device."

Oh no, I thought. Was that the problem all along? I'd been trying to record at 176.4 kHz, which is supposedly supported by my sound card. But maybe there's an error in the driver and 176.4 kHz only works with the 64-bit driver and not with the 32-bit driver? That would explain why Audition wouldn't work.

So I tried a different setup, plugging the optical cable into the 96 kHz optical digital output of my BD player.

I then tried RX5 (32-bit) again and yes, it worked, recording flawlessly. Obviously 96 kHz wasn't a problem for the sound card's 32-bit driver, even if 176.4 kHz was.

So of course, Audition should now work in 96 kHz too. So I closed RX5 (32-bit) and opened Audition, selected the ASIO device class and tried to open my sound card's ASIO driver. But - still no go. The same old error message: "Device could not be opened."

I'm not sure what to make of all this. It does seem that there could be an error in the sound card's 32-bit driver with regard to the 176.4 kHz sampling rate. Even so, RX5 is able to use the sound card's 32-bit driver at 96 kHz (and probably most other sampling rates) while Audition CS6 is not. I suppose I ought to give PreSonar Studio One Prime another shot, this time at 96 kHz, but I've uninstalled it now. Maybe later.

Report · Nov 17, 2016

Update: I installed PreSonar Studio One Prime again, in 32 bit and 64 bit. I tried them both with the 96 kHz ASIO stream but it was still no go: neither would work. They see the driver and try to start recording but the transport will not move. (Same as before.)

So the situation hasn't changed that much. What I have is that Audition CS6 (32 bits), PreSonar Studio One Prime (32 bits) and PreSonar Studio One Prime (64 bits) will not work at all with this setup. iZotope will work in both 32 bits AND 64 bits. And Audition CC and NCH WavePad both work in 64 bits.

I'm not sure what to make of this. I still like Steve's theory but it doesn't really explain why PreSonar Studio One Prime (64 bits) doesn't work or why iZotope RZ5 (32 bits) does. So I think the SPDIF connection is in there somewhere as well - I feel sure I wouldn't be having all these problems if the connection was USB.

Report · Nov 17, 2016

I think that you may find that it all depends upon how they've arranged to stream ASIO feeds, and that from this POV all software isn't equal... so for instance, if one app decides that the conversion should be done in the app and not left to M$'s evil devices, then it stands a much greater chance of working, I'd say.

The trouble with this is that there really are a lot of variables, and potential pitfalls. Not the least of these is that Audition CS6 was never really intended (as such) to work, emulated, inside a 64-bit environment, so it wasn't heavily tested that way...

Report · Nov 17, 2016

Thanks, Steve, I'm sure that's right.

Although I don't like being beaten, I think it's time to move on so I'm planning to use iZotope RX5 for recording and to keep CS6 in reserve for editing. The only thing with recording in iZotope is that it doesn't seem to display the waveform while you're actually recording - only when you've finished. I find this a bit disconcerting. Is that just how it is? (With apologies for going wildly off topic.)

Report · Nov 17, 2016

I've hardly ever recorded with it (and it is a relatively recent innovation for RX) but IIRC, it did the same thing for me - no waveform whilst you record.

Report · Nov 17, 2016

OK, well at least I know it's not just me. Many thanks and I'll leave it at that - unless I make any more startling discoveries!