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Side Chaining in Au3 (CS2) and Mirror EQ technique

New Here ,
Jul 30, 2018 Jul 30, 2018

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SIDE CHAINING in Au3 (CS2) AND MIRROR EQ TECHNIQUE

a) Might anyone in the forum know of any way - any way at all - to side-chain? Has anyone discovered a workaround routing via the buses maybe? If not might anyone know of a VST plugin that could help achieve this same thing?

b) Using additive/subtractive EQ, also known as "Mirror EQ technique"

Could anyone give a step by step description of how to do that using the built in tools? Of course, you need to see the waveform of both target tracks to see where the strongest peaks or transient energy is occurring where the waveforms are competing for space and then (if my understanding of M/Eq is correct) to then make a 1.5 to 3 dB cut in one side and then the same amount of boost on the other track on the opposite side. I hope I have described this properly. See video for full explanation: Mixing With EQ - Carving EQ Holes - TheRecordingRevolution.com - YouTube

Thanks in advance and appreciating any guidance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoJqNzxYQD4

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

LEGEND , Jul 30, 2018 Jul 30, 2018

a) You can't do any side chaining natively within AA3 with any of it's built in effects. But depending on what you want to operate with side chaining there are various VST Side Chain effects which may work in Audition 3 OK. Search on the internet for 'Sidechain VST Effects'. Of course the latest versions of Audition do now have built in sidechain in some of it's effects.

b) It's not the waveform that you need to see but some form of Frequency Analysis which is built in to Audition. However you ca

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LEGEND ,
Jul 30, 2018 Jul 30, 2018

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a) You can't do any side chaining natively within AA3 with any of it's built in effects. But depending on what you want to operate with side chaining there are various VST Side Chain effects which may work in Audition 3 OK. Search on the internet for 'Sidechain VST Effects'. Of course the latest versions of Audition do now have built in sidechain in some of it's effects.

b) It's not the waveform that you need to see but some form of Frequency Analysis which is built in to Audition. However you can only analyse one waveform at a time in the Edit view and open the Frequency Analysis window from there to see where the main frequency peaks are in your audio files. Though with experience this is mostly done by ear, as is the appropriate EQ adjustments using either the Parametric EQ  from Effects/Filter and EQ or using the Mastering plugin from Effects/Special. There is already a preset there for 'Making Room for Vocal', which will give you some idea of what needs doing.

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New Here ,
Jul 30, 2018 Jul 30, 2018

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Yes, quite right! I did know that you cannot natively achieve side chaining within Au3 (CS2) - so wondered if their might possibly be a "cheat" or work around discovered by someone out there - it seems an odd omission by Adobe at least in this iteration. Cool Edit Pro  didn´t have this feature either. The only way seems to be to use automation to duck any music bed if doing voice overs, but as you´ll know there are other subtle uses for side chaining too.

VST plugin: There was a Dutch firm called Twisted Lemon that offered a free VST psuedo side chain plugin but that´s no longer available to my knowledge. If anyone has it and could send me a copy of it I´d be very grateful!

Right again with the wave form analysis! I´d correctly concluded this myself as being the go-to tool for the job although only available in the Edit window. I´ll have to just take snapshots and write down the values if I use this "scientific" method - as it will give a very detailed picture of the transient after scanning.

I personally wouldn´t attempt this type of EQ cutting and boosting by ear - its not accurate enough! Given the advantages of a DAW and information it can provide, its far more accurate to use visual profiling, judging with the ears in tandem depending on what tonality is desired in the track. For example; a doubled distorted guitar part - panned L&R respectively. I can imagine how important that would be in the metal genre. I did check the mastering tool for this by the way, but the faint graph isn´t really that helpful and the pre-sets offer only a very basic default, but better than nothing.

I´ve done some research on "mirror eq" and amazingly there´s not one single YouTube video from any Au3 (CS2) user. So either no-one has ever done it with Au-CS2 or if they have, didn´t wish to share the methodology! Regarding seeing the fluid waveform, there´s a VST called "Fab Filter" that comes highly recommended and this can be inserted on every track - although I´d worry about processor fatigue.

Thank you very much for confirming my own thoughts about how best to approach this within Au3 and I hope this post might attract further comments to help all other Au3 CS2 users. There´s a lot to know about the correct use of EQ!

PS: I´ve found some work arounds with other things - like compression for example as well as general shelving EQ - necessity being the mother of invention! I´d absolutely welcome any further discussion or tips on how to use the analysis tool vis a vis mirror EQ.

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New Here ,
Jul 30, 2018 Jul 30, 2018

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BASS SYNTH ANALYSIS.JPGKICK DRUM ANALYSIS.JPG

For the purposes of "mirror eq" - I have never done this (and wouldn´t be the only one!) but I think it is essential to know how to do it. We can see very clearly here the transients of the bass drum and synth bass guitar part - these two voices being the most typical of transients most people would like to see not fighting in the mix. The next question is what to do to effectively target and trim the areas of conflict and to boost by up to 3 dB on one side and to do the very opposite on the other waveform - the mirror image.which will allow a space for each and a total of 6 dB of spread in the mix. Can someone explain please a step by step analysis of these two depictions and then to give a step by step instruction on how to achieve the desired mirror eq? ThaNks in advance!

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LEGEND ,
Jul 30, 2018 Jul 30, 2018

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You will probably find interpreting the Frequency Analysis window much easier in musical terms to turn off Linear View (top left box) so that you are seeing a logarithmic frequency scale which will better represent the musical content of your audio files. Also selecting Lines rather than Area in the bottom right selection box make it simpler to see.

dayoftheschmeckel  wrote

I did know that you cannot natively achieve side chaining within Au3 (CS2) - so wondered if their might possibly be a "cheat" or work around discovered by someone out there - it seems an odd omission by Adobe at least in this iteration

Remember that this 'iteration' of AA 3 is now over 10 years old and Audition has come on a lot since then (we are now at least seven versions on with each version having had several bug fix/feature updates). It now has many new features (like sidechaining, auto ducking and more sophisticated EQ etc.).

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New Here ,
Jul 31, 2018 Jul 31, 2018

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Thank you for your reply. I saw an interesting visual presentation (without commentary) on "mirror eq" (link below). I hope someone in the community can explain how to achieve mirror eq in Au3 using the tools provided (wave analysis & parametric EQ). Meanwhile I´m just going to make some 3 dB cuts and boosts in the sections that represent the excursions of greatest amplitude. That seems to be the onset of the fundamental transient. The depictions in the previous posting show that they occupy the same sonic territory. The major issue with multi-track recording (which is by no means as apparent in much simpler less track count projects) is frequency masking or "mud". A useful analogy of mirror eq can best be described in this way:

If you stand on one side of a lake looking on the horizontal plane at a single mountain on the other side - you perceive only one mountain. If you were able to carve off a segment from the left side slope you would then see that a 2nd mountain is there but was hidden from view. Similarly, if you then carved out a section of the right side of the mountain, you would see a corner of the same hidden mountain or perhaps a piece of another on and so on... This is the mental image I used to picture what was happening with frequency masking and how mirror eq would solve this. Of course, no-one would attempt to cut off the side of a mountain without a proper plan from a technical drawing board and using the eyes only!

By using the wave analysis tool I hope to get a very accurate representation of the area I want to make my frequency cuts or boosts. Frequency masking is going to occur everywhere across the spectrum and shelving eq won´t be the cure on its own. You can make a best guess at where masking is occurring, but I think you need to see it - no doubt its why a waveform analysis tool is built into the software!

A good many audio engineers aren´t using mirror eq. I was made aware of it by a producer acquaintance. Those who have studied audio engineering to diploma level will have had the benefit of being taught the concepts of eq. Then there´s the school of learning by doing - and probably that applies to a great many, including myself!

Indeed Adobe has been updating Au3 but there were glaring omissions such as not including the CD burner or doing away with "must have" features of earlier versions. I may be wrong but I think the latest version is "for rent only".

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New Here ,
Nov 17, 2020 Nov 17, 2020

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Hello Ry and Steve, its been great to have had your advice and views, thank you. Apparantly the latest version of Adobe Audition has a Dynamics compressor called Audition's Dynamics (process) effect which allows sidechaining. Is it possible to get a download of the DLL code of this plugin so that I could drop it into my .dll folder in CS2? Or would the architecture of CS2 not permit it to run? I thought it was worth asking. Thanks in advance.

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New Here ,
Jul 17, 2021 Jul 17, 2021

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Hello Mr. Clark

 

Re' Audition 2021 current version. Is MIDI supported in any way? Example MIDI sequencer, MTC, SMPTE, MIDI master / slave, etc? In my old 2007 version MDI sync / master / slave / insert MIDI track etc are all possible. When will Adobe create a user manual in .pdf form for the current release and, is there a link to a list of specifications for the current version of AU? Thank you in advance. The most detailed information I could find online for the product is linked below. It mentions MIDI but stops short of any deeper descriptions.

https://www.malavida.com/en/soft/adobe-audition/

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Community Expert ,
Jul 17, 2021 Jul 17, 2021

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I'm afraid that you won't get a reply from ryclark - he hasn't been around for a while. Your advert is incorrect as far as MIDI is concerned - the only MIDI compatibility is in the control protocols for remote control surfaces. MIDI in the form you probably want never made it beyond version 3, and it was dropped in the next version. Adobe stopped creating actual manuals a long time ago - they are remarkably expensive to create and there appears to be no perceived return from them - generally people ask questions on the forum that might have been answered. There has never been what many people might think of as a 'proper' manual; all there has ever been is a description of the controls. The reason for this is simple; Audition is an editor aimed at professionals, and they are supposed to know what the practical application of these controls is. So the basic functionality is described in the online help files, and that is deemed to be sufficient.

 

Now you may not like or appreciate any of this, but it appears to work for Adobe, and none of us are actually in a position to argue with them. If they say that this is what optimises their income streams, then we have no realistic grounds for complaint. And they do check this stuff out pretty rigorously.

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