Warning: Bezier keyframes were converted to linear keyframes.

Report · Oct 07, 2018

I've used Sony Sound Forge Pro for many years to do all of my audio editing. Today was my first time trying the Premiere Pro to Audition workflow as it looks really appealing in the demos I watched. When I opened my .prproj file in Audition, I got this interesting warning message,

"Warning: Bezier keyframes were converted to linear keyframes."

Huh. And sure enough, where I had added volume Bezier keyframes in PP I now have linear keyframes in Audition. After some searching it looks like Audition doesn't HAVE Bezier handles for it's keyframes. Weird - since almost all Adobe products that have envelopes utilize Bezier handles. I like to have very precise control over audio, which does NOT describe the result of "Spline curves" LOL. Can anybody from Adobe reply with insight on Bezier handles in Audition?

Thanks,

- DK

Report · Oct 08, 2018

xyz88888 wrote
I like to have very precise control over audio, which does NOT describe the result of "Spline curves" LOL. Can anybody from Adobe reply with insight on Bezier handles in Audition?

This is a U2U forum, so you're unlikely to get a response from the developers... but in reality (IOW, what real filters do), splines are reasonably accurate - at least as accurate as having Bezier controls, which also can't necessarily do exactly what they say on the tin. For instance, if you put an abrupt linear change value into a filter, all you are doing is putting control values into something that cannot directly 'do' what you demanded - you'll end up with either spline or Bezier-like response anyway. If, for instance, you put a stop value on a filter that said that you wanted it to drop like a stone at 2kHz, then it simply couldn't - it's not in the nature of either IIR or FIR filters to do this, but in the attempt, they will both handle the phase response differently, regardless of what you dial in; the graphic representations are at best just what that says - representations, not actuality. So the chances are that you'll get spurs you didn't think you were going to, regardless of what you dialed in.

So what you're looking at here is simply a control mechanism. Audition has always used either linear points or splines, and I haven't found anything that you can't achieve - relatively easily - with this system. As have many thousands of other users. But one thing we do know about these users is that many of them are rather resistant to change! Every time anything gets fundamentally altered (or removed, or anything else-d) there are howls of protest from all over the globe... and a lot of them happen here...

So please don't run away thinking that Bezier controls are superior in terms of ultimate accuracy - they aren't. They are just a different way of controlling the same filters, producing ultimately the same result, and with a marginal improvement when it comes to altering the slope values. As for volume controls and panning, having linear controls available gives a markedly superior result for a lot of applications (like manual gating) than either Bezier or spline controls ever could.

There is of course one other reason for the control mechanisms in Audition being the way they are - and that is that on filters, etc they represent what you'd find on a real-world equivalent device, and many people find that to be rather important.

Report · Oct 10, 2018

Steve,

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to my post. Context matters most here - which is the workflow from PP to Audition as stated in my original post. See, I'm used to doing all of the volume envelope editing in PP because, well, that's where I'm doing the video editing. My workflow consists of exporting the whole edited soundtrack as a single audio file, opening it in Sound Forge, doing the more specialized audio processing that PP hasn't been able to do very well in the past (although there have been lots of improvements, granted), exporting it back out to an audio file and importing the finished audio into PP. I loved the idea of working on the .PRPROJ file directly in Audition now. But then all of the nuanced fades that build up or quickly drop out, are being reduced to linear fades, which are NOT aural equivalents or even close in most cases. I was hoping I was missing a critical step in getting my volume editing work to be recognized properly, that's all. When I clicked on the Splines command the shape of the resulting envelope wasn't even close to what I had, which again was my point in the OP - not that splines are completely useless. Nor am I trying to force the idea that everybody should use Bezier handles.

Report · Oct 11, 2018

Yeah, because of the slope value thing, Beziers won't necessarily convert accurately to splines - can't deny it!

The other thing to note is that the whole 'round trip' issue of moving stuff between Premiere and Audition is a work in progress. It has taken a long time, as it's not simple and there are many workflow issues with it, as people keep pointing out... So there is some hope that many of these issues will ultimately be resolved.

Report · Aug 13, 2022

Hey Dkins,
I faced the same problem and then figured out a workaround. You can "Nest" all your audios and then duplicate it. Then Mute the first Nested audio and keep that as a backup.
Now "Render and Replace" all that 2nd Nested Audio and then export that to Adobe Audition.

Thanks,

Art Cave