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P: Camera Raw: Problems with ACR presets

Explorer ,
Jul 30, 2016 Jul 30, 2016

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Hello, I’m having some trouble with Photoshop CC, specifically with the Camera Raw Filter.

I have created multiple ACR presets that I use to apply various photo effects to my images. When I created these presets and saved them, I specifically didn't check any of the settings relating to the Transform, Lens Profile Corrections, Chromatic Aberration, Lens Vignetting and the Camera Calibration panels.



I did this because I don’t want those settings to change when I apply one of my presets. The settings in those sections are generally related to the workings of my equipment and I don’t want to have to redo those settings if I decide to apply an effect to my image.

This method generally works with one significant exception. Even though I have specifically left Lens Corrections out of my saved settings (by not checking that box when saving the preset), some settings in the Lens Correction panel (specifically the Defringe Purple Hue and Green Hue sliders) always get reset to the default values
when the preset is applied.

Can anyone give me some thoughts on this? 

Thanks-

Mary

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Adobe Employee , Aug 01, 2016 Aug 01, 2016
Thanks. I've asked the eng team to look into this issue.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 31, 2016 Jul 31, 2016

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I can duplicate this.   Even saving just Process Version and nothing else in a preset will reset the Defringe Purple Hue Range and Green Hue Range to their default values when that preset is applied.  Examining the preset.xmp file shows only the PV saved, no Defringe values.

So it appears that the bug is any application of any saved preset will reset the Defringe Hue sliders to default values.

Lightroom does not have this problem.  Saving and applying a preset doesn't change the Defringe slider values unless they are part of the saved preset values.

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Explorer ,
Jul 31, 2016 Jul 31, 2016

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Hi Steve, 

Thanks for looking into this. Yes, I originally created these presets in LR and the problem didn't happen there. 

The issue get even worse if I try to apply the preset as part of an action in Photoshop. It seems as if there are some values that, if not set within the preset (by not being saved as part of the preset) that get set to their default values when an action applies that preset. So in the case above, when I apply this preset as part of an action, it looks like all values within the unchecked panels-the Transform, Lens Profile Corrections, Chromatic Aberration, Lens Vignetting and the Camera Calibration panels-get reset to their default values.

Mary

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LEGEND ,
Jul 31, 2016 Jul 31, 2016

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Have you tried creating a custom default for Camera Raw? I've always used a custom default, and I've never seen what you're seeing. In fact, I just tested it by making a preset, and saving the preset leaving out a ton of settings. My custom default setting  for those settings I left out came through.

My guess is that by not checking a feature, you're telling Camera Raw to set it to the default. Could you live with a different default setting from Camera Raw's? It might solve the problem for you.

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Explorer ,
Aug 01, 2016 Aug 01, 2016

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Hi Cristen,

Thanks for the response!

I tried using a custom default for Camera Raw, but the hue sliders still reset when I apply a preset. So you are seeing something different? Hmmmm...

But I agree with what you're thinking - that by not checking a feature, Camera Raw thinks you're resetting it to the default. 

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LEGEND ,
Aug 01, 2016 Aug 01, 2016

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Did you set everything on every tab to the setting you want Camera Raw to default to if you don't override it with a preset, then save it on the Basic tab flyout menu as a New Camera Raw Default?

I should add, this IS what any raw image will open with, so be sure you're okay with seeing the file with these settings before you've used any presets. For instance, if you always set Sharpen amount to 25%, then that's what you should set here.

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Explorer ,
Aug 01, 2016 Aug 01, 2016

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Hi Cristen, 

I did exactly that. I edited the Camera Calibration panel and the Lens Correction panel, including the 'manual' part of that panel which deals with the hue adjustments.



Then I saved it as the default using the flyout menu as the new default.



Then I applied a preset that was saved without checking the setting for Transform, Lens Profile Corrections, Chromatic Aberration, Lens Vignetting and the Camera Calibration panels. When I did, the camera profile and calibration and the lens profile stay the same but the hue sliders (in the 'Manual' part of the Lens Correction panel reset to 30/70 for purple and 40/60 for green.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 01, 2016 Aug 01, 2016

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But you've set Profile to disable automatic chromatic aberration correction, and you've set the Amount here to 0. So what is the problem? The sliders will have to be set somewhere. You can't remove the sliders. So if you want the sliders in a specific location, you have to save that location and save it in the preset.

With everything OFF, the position of the sliders, should you turn it on manually, is irrelevant, no? They're not doing anything. In the screenshot, note that I still have the Amount of influence set to 0, but I've moved the sliders to a position different from shipping version. The only reason I'd have to do that is if I find that's where my camera, when it displays chromatic aberration, usually needs the sliders to be set.

By saving Chromatic Aberration with the subset of settings, I can have the sliders anywhere I want. But they have to be somewhere, so Adobe set them somewhere, perhaps where they found them most often useful. We can't change that without a deliberate override.

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Adobe Employee ,
Aug 01, 2016 Aug 01, 2016

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Thanks. I've asked the eng team to look into this issue.

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Explorer ,
Aug 01, 2016 Aug 01, 2016

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Cristen, I'm sorry, I was taking screen shots quickly to post them here. The issue happens when the Amount sliders are set to nonzero amounts.

Thanks again for your response!

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Explorer ,
Aug 01, 2016 Aug 01, 2016

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Thank you!

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LEGEND ,
Aug 01, 2016 Aug 01, 2016

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I think it's very unexpected that we can't save the chromatic aberration sliders as part of our custom Camera Raw defaults. I was surprised. <G>

To have to always save it as part of the preset to override the default is obviously not desirable. I set it to 0 for my CR defaults, so have never cared about the sliders, but if Mary is setting it to non-zero amounts, definitely I can see the problem here.

Who are the "eng" team?

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LEGEND ,
Aug 01, 2016 Aug 01, 2016

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Got it. Obviously a problem then. The CR team has always been quick to respond to issues, so fingers crossed. . .

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Explorer ,
Aug 01, 2016 Aug 01, 2016

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🙂

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LEGEND ,
Aug 01, 2016 Aug 01, 2016

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This seems like a more serious issue, since it messes with all the values, not just Defringe Hue values.  I am not one who uses Actions with ACR hardly at all. 

Do all of the values that are in unchecked sections (for example if you also unchecked Exposure and Sharpening, etc) get reset to defaults or is it just the ones that you've mentioned? 

And has this behavior recently changed with the latest version?  I worry that this one comment might get lost since it is something else than the original reported issue.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 01, 2016 Aug 01, 2016

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No, everything doesn't get reset. If I'm following you, what you're worried about is whether or not you can adjust settings for an image, then use a saved preset that only is applied to a specific area, such as split-tone. Your settings aren't reset to the default settings. Not even Detail and Sharpening if I've modified it, and the Detail tab, if you use Adobe's defaults, does have both sharpening and noise reduction applied.

You can save presets each with only a very specific feature, and then apply them one on top of another, if you so choose. They won't conflict if you set it up right, and your manual settings won't conflict if you never modify, say, the basic tab in a saved preset.

Is that what you're worried about?

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LEGEND ,
Aug 01, 2016 Aug 01, 2016

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This request for clarification was for Mary who reported a second issue in the reply above my comment.  It's related to presets but when applied in an action and not otherwise related to the issue that started this thread.

This is what I'm referring to that she said:

If I try to apply the preset as part of an action in Photoshop. It seems as if there are some values that, if not set within the preset (by not being saved as part of the preset) that get set to their default values when an action applies that preset.

I am also not trying to learn how to use presets or understand what the term preset means.  I know all that.  I'm asking for clarification about a 2nd bug Mary seems to be reporting.

What Mary is reporting is that when using a preset in an action "some values" that weren't stored as part of the preset get reset to their defaults.  The clarification I'm asking for is precisely which settings are those "some values" that get set to their defaults erroneously, if it is all of them or just specific ones in the few items she left unchecked in the original example.  In other words if you uncheck everything except, say, Process Version, what areas settings are reset to their default values besides the few specific lens-related items she mentioned that were part of her original preset discussion.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 01, 2016 Aug 01, 2016

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Okay, this is outside of the way I've used actions. I've never run an action to apply a Camera Raw preset. I've used Bridge for batch application through Develop Settings, or the CR Filter.

So I've tried this a couple of ways.  I created an action that applies a split-tone preset through the Camera Raw Filter to an open image that I'd just applied settings to. That did just that without changing any settings I applied. All was well, but that was one image opened in CR, and running an action during the session.

I then used a batch action from Bridge on 4, 2 of which had no settings, 2 that had settings, and I found something VERY disturbing. If you're running an action images from Bridge, it opens the image in CR first and uses the last-used settings. It doesn't use the Camera Raw Defaults that it otherwise opens with. So my first image had a +1.15 exposure and + 35 Clarity —to be very obviously changed in a given direction. The three other images opened to those settings. If I changed the settings on the next image, then the one after picked up those settings.

It's most definitely not resetting to CR defaults, even if it has previously applied CR settings. Feeling like driving yourself crazy? If you open in CR and click Done, those settings aren't considered a Previous Conversion.

I next tried it with JPEGS. I applied settings to them in CR so they would automatically open in CR when running the batch action. In this case, the JPEGs were reverted to Camera Raw defaults on open. I lost whatever settings I had applied before the action even got around to running the split tone preset through the CR filter. 

So if Camera Raw is supposed to work with actions, meaning we can batch action them, even if Mary is doing something else, I think this needs to be separated from the original, as you suggested, and made a separate Issue. The results are definitely not consistent between the formats, and in all cases, they aren't desirable.

I can apply a preset through Bridge without it overriding existing settings to single or multiple files, JPEG or raw. Certainly my Exposure and Clarity remained the same and nothing else was altered if I reopened them in CR and looked to see what had been affected.

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Explorer ,
Aug 02, 2016 Aug 02, 2016

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Hi Everyone,

Sorry for the delayed response! I didn’t notice the additional comments until just now.

Ok, so to test how presets are applied within an action, I applied the Camera Raw Filter with PS to a JPEG image and set every setting (I think I got them all) to non-zero values. Note that I stayed in color, no greyscale conversion was applied.

I then created a preset and saved with it nothing but the Process Version checked and applied that preset using an action.

 The following settings reverted to zero when I did this:

 Basic Panel:

  • Contrast
  • Blacks
  • Clarity
  • Vibrance
  • Saturation

 Tone Curve:

  • All values in the Parametric Tone Curve reset to zero but the values in the Point curve were untouched.

 HSL/Greyscale:

  • All values in the three HSL Panel (Hue, Saturation, Luminance) reset to zero.

Split Toning

  • Nothing changed in this panel.

 Lens Corrections, Effects, Camera Calibration and Transform Panels:

  • Every setting in these four panels reset to zero.

This seems a pretty big deal. So do you both think I should set up a separate conversation about this issue to make sure that it doesn’t get lost in the other one? I’m very new to this forum-these issues have been my first posts-so I’m not sure how best to proceed.

 Thanks!

 Mary

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LEGEND ,
Aug 02, 2016 Aug 02, 2016

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So you are running an action from within Photoshop, using the CR Filter, not Bridge using the CR plug-in?

And you're opening JPGs that have settings saved in them from prior opening in the CR plug-in or the action is reopening them without settings and everything is default?

I'm a little  hazy on how the JPGs "have settings" that are then reset by the application of a CR Filter.

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Explorer ,
Aug 02, 2016 Aug 02, 2016

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Hi Steve,

I'm opening a Jpeg (in Photoshop) that has no settings saved with it.

I create a copy of the background layer and convert that copy to a Smart object. I then apply a CR filter to the Smart Object so that the settings in the CR filter remain editable:



I then run an action that opens the CR filter and applies the preset that only contains the Process Version. The preset is applied using 'Load Setting' option of the flyout menu of the CR filter.



Does that help?

Thanks!

-Mary

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LEGEND ,
Aug 02, 2016 Aug 02, 2016

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Yeah, that helps describe what you're doing.

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Explorer ,
Aug 02, 2016 Aug 02, 2016

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Thanks!

Do you think I should start a new conversation about this? Or what do you think I should do to make sure it gets addressed in addition to the previous issue? Thoughts?

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LEGEND ,
Aug 02, 2016 Aug 02, 2016

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Someone at Adobe may reply with an answer to whether is should be split up.  It is usually better, but there is quite a bit of detail, here, already. 

It may also be possible to split off a portion of this discussion to a new thread (or two given Cristen's finding the Preset-in-Bridge-Action issue, though it might be the same thing manifesting differently). but I'm not sure what all can be done with the forum management tools.

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Explorer ,
Aug 02, 2016 Aug 02, 2016

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Thanks! I'll wait tight and see if Adobe replies...

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Explorer ,
Aug 16, 2016 Aug 16, 2016

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LATEST
Hi Jeffrey,

Can I ask if there has been any movement on this issue?

Also, I don't know if you've read this thread since you posted to it 2 weeks ago, but there is an additional (but related) issue with how the Camera Raw settings are applied when done through an action using the CR filter in Photoshop. To see the specifics of this, you can see the discussion between me and Steve Sprengel above. 

So I'm just checking in to see if there's been any movement and to make sure that you all are aware of the additional issue....

Thanks!

Mary

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