Canon EF lens correction data shifting color profile

New Here ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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Hi, I'm having a color managment issue with my Canon R5 & RF 24-70 lens. My editor/post processer of 7 years sends me jpegs that look washed out, missing reds, flat, etc. Everything looks good on her end and on my graphic designers end, so I figured it was my screeen (althougth all of us are on calibrated imacs, using the same color profiles, etc and same version of photoshop and bridge).For the first time in 20 years, I've gotten some complaints and comments from clients regarding the color. I recently started printing orders for clients and the prints match what I'm seeing on my screen (washed out colors, little to no reds, flat, etc) . Adobe escalated my case and said a senior tech would call me muliple times and never called. I finally spoke to Canon yesterday and they told me about an issue they are seeing some R5 or RF lens users involving adobe. I'm not techinical, so here's what I heard them say:

"Lens correction data is shifting color profile" and they recommend remoing the lens profle from Photoshop or adjusting defringing.

 

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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The bit about the lens profile doesn't make much sense to me. So this only shows up with that one lens and only when the profile is used? 

The JPEGs you're received do have an embedded ICC profile (if so what)? 

Prints that don't match the display is another store (see below), and yes, this could be a display calibration issue. You do have to have a printer profile that you yourself are using for soft proof AND conversions (not from some outslide lab; that's mostly a bougs workflow in terms of color management). 

 

Why are my prints too dark?
Why doesn’t my display match my prints?
A video update to a written piece on subject from 2013
In this 24 minute video, I'll cover:

Are your prints really too dark?
Display calibration and WYSIWYG
Proper print viewing conditions
Trouble shooting to get a match
Avoiding kludges that don't solve the problem

High resolution: http://digitaldog.net/files/Why_are_my_prints_too_dark.mp4
Low resolution: https://youtu.be/iS6sjZmxjY4


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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New Here ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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It has only happened when I got the R5 and I only shoot with one lens. 

The images my editor is sending me look nothing on my screen like they look on hers. We have zoomed. Also, my raw images in Canons software look different than in Camera Raw. My computer they are missing colors, desaturated, no reds in faces...lips blue. This is not my labs issue, I only brought up the prints to say that they indeed are printing exactly as I am seeing on my screen....color is way off, desaturated, no reds, flat, etc. These same images look normal on my editors screen, but once they hit my photoshop, they change.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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First, what she sees and you see is at this point going to have to be tabled. 

You should always test output using good color reference images designed for that task. The color reference images RGB values are such they are set for output and are editing and display agnostic. Test the output this way and examine for the same color issues so we know it's not your image specific issues causing the problems:

http://www.gballard.net/photoshop/pdi_download/
http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html#TestPrint
http://www.digitaldog.net/files/2014PrinterTestFileFlat.tif.zip

You can use this to print of course. 

Next, it might be useful to save off a DNG (it bakes in ALL your edits and profiles) and upload to something like Dropbox for us to examine. 

With an embedded profile and or course, a well calibrated and profiled display, what Photoshop shows you IS correct. Outside of a color managed application (which your editor may be using), not the case. 

Canon and Adobe (and ALL other raw processors) are proprietary and unique! It isn't at all unusual even with default settings that the same raw will appear differently in different converters. After all, this is really what your raws look like:

 

ThisIsRaw


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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New Here ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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This is not relevant. How do I remove a lens profile in Camera Raw? 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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You don't need to remove anything. You can toggle the profile OFF. 


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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New Here ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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Can I turn it off for all of the photos and past photos ....or does it have to be done one by one?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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In Lightroom Classic you can select and disable in mass. In ACR, you'll want to do this one by one (although in theory, you can 'open' multiple raws there and do so). 

Do one! Does this change the color????


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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New Here ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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Here is a side by side right now of the same raw file in Digital Photo Pro 4 (left) and Adobe Bridge (right). The photo on the right is missing color...look at her skin and lips. Screen Shot 2021-11-20 at 1.17.44 PM.png

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New Here ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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When I toggle the profile OFF,  nothing changes, it looks the same 

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New Here ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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Just did it and nothing changed.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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quote

When I toggle the profile OFF,  nothing changes, it looks the same 

By @ccphoto345

Because, what Canon told you about the lens profile is rubbish. That has no role in this 'color shift'. 


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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New Here ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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What do you think the issue is...why is there missing color?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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quoteHere is a side by side right now of the same raw file in Digital Photo Pro 4 (left) and Adobe Bridge (right). The photo on the right is missing color...look at her skin and lips. .

 

No, they don't match nor again, should you expect them to match. They are TWO differing raw converters (IF the Bridge version was from ACR). 

Are you now saying, the same rendered raw from DDP (as a TIFF or JPEG) doesn't match when you view that rendered image in Bridge? Did DPP embed a Working Space profile? What is it? 


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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New Here ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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Please don't take shots at Canon...not helpful or professional. If you know what the issue is, please do tell. I've had this case escalated with Adobe for a week and have been stood up by technitions 5 times...and now they are closed. There is color missing in my raw photos ever since I started using the Canon R5 only with the Adobe software. I'd like someone at Adobe to help me get to the bottom of it, as it's affecting my busienss and repuation. 

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New Here ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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Both Adobe and DPP working spaces are the same. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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quote

Please don't take shots at Canon...not helpful or professional.


By @ccphoto345

 

Please, you just confirmed that what they told you was rubbish:

 

@ccphoto345 "Canon yesterday and they told me about an issue they are seeing some R5 or RF lens users involving adobe. I'm not techinical, so here's what I heard them say:

"Lens correction data is shifting color profile" and they recommend remoing the lens profle from Photoshop or adjusting defringing".

 

You did turn OFF the profile and you don't see the color shift: YES or NO? 

I've been a professonal photographer shooting Canon for decades! In fact, when I shot the 1984 Olympics, Canon was the official camera of the games and I shot with them during the entire 16 days; hundreads of rolls a day. 

Bottom line: Canon blamed Adobe's lens profile. You turn it off and there is no difference by your own reporting. HOW can it be the lens profile? 

You say both Adobe and DPP use the same working space; WHAT is it? 

You show DPP and presumbably a converesion from ACR (???) not matching, that's not at all unusual. 


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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New Here ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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Side by side DPP and Adobe with image from my Canon Mark IV...color the same...no change in color in lips or cheeks (Raw images)

Screen Shot 2021-11-20 at 1.56.29 PM.png

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New Here ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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Are you able to try and help me get to the bottom of my issue? 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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What we have here is a failure to communicate so maybe someone else will try helping you. 

Before I give up, I asked and will again, exactly WHAT are you trying to show us here with DPP and Bridge? In the last example of man and boy, the appear IDENTICAL to me. Which is exactly what we should see in two color managed applications. What's the problem? 

 

Bridge cannot show you a raw; ACR can. Bridge can show you a preview of a rendered image FROM the other raw processor. So are you trying to tell us that the rendered TIFF or JPEG or PSD from DPP and what you see from that same image in Bridge do not match? 

You truned OFF the lens profile and that didn't do anything. The lens profile isn't an issue. 

You showed us a rendered image in Bridge that matches DPP. That's what should be showing. What's the problem? 


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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New Here ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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The man and boy are identical...that was my point. That shot was taken with my other camera prior to issues. The one before that of the girl was taken with new camera to show you the issue I've been talking about.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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Keep this in mind:

When I toggle the profile OFF,  nothing changes, it looks the same 

By charissec3652543

 

Now what? 


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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New Here ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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I've also shown you a side by side with the issue happening with Canon R5 and then a side by side with Mark IV when it wasn't happening. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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By charissec3652543 I've also shown you a side by side with the issue happening with Canon R5 and then a side by side with Mark IV when it wasn't happening. 

 

You've shown us, this has nothing to do with lens profile despite Canon saying so.

You told us when you turn OFF the profile, nothing changed. Right? 

You were told HOW to supply us with actual data (DNG) to get to the bottom of this, you haven't. So I give up. Maybe another volunteer with more patience will. 


Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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New Here ,
Nov 20, 2021 Nov 20, 2021

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Scratch lens issue. I've asked you to put that aside at least twice. How do I get you dng data? 

 

"No, they don't match nor again, should you expect them to match. They are TWO differing raw converters (IF the Bridge version was from ACR). " and then you said "In the last example of man and boy, the appear IDENTICAL to me. Which is exactly what we should see in two color managed applications. What's the problem?

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