Color Problems with CS4 Upgrade

New Here ,
Dec 19, 2008 Dec 19, 2008

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I recently upgraded to CS4 and have been experiencing the following problem. When I open an image from ACR to PS CS4 it looks absolutely nothing like it did in ACR. If I was to describe it, it would be that the image has an overall red tint when viewed in CS4. If I then save this image as a PSD file, and then open it in PS CS3 it matches the CS4 ACR image. So, what have I got set wrong in PS CS4 (which is still all of the default settings)?

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Guide ,
Dec 21, 2008 Dec 21, 2008

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>So, does anyone know what actually happens in PS when Assign profile is changed to Color Match RGB

Yeah, you're wrecking the colors of the image by imposing an erroneous definition in the interpretation of the tonal values.

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New Here ,
Dec 21, 2008 Dec 21, 2008

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Very helpful.

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New Here ,
Dec 21, 2008 Dec 21, 2008

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After setting the ACR values and opening the image in Photoshop, the
Photoshop version is noticeably darker and slightly more contrasty
than the way it appeared in ACR. Both are set to Adobe RGB 1998
colorspace. In order to make the ACR version look the same as the
version that opened in Photoshop, I had to change the Point curve in
ACR so that the quarter tone setting was roughly 70, 49 and the
midpoint was also lowered accordingly. The three quarter point was
left at it's original value. Of course if the image is reopened using
these settings, then the PS version again looks still darker and more
contrasty. I have a screen shot of the point curve I used to match up
the appearances.

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Contributor ,
Dec 22, 2008 Dec 22, 2008

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Everything still sounds like a colorspace mis-match but both Ray and Jack indicate that they have checked Color Settings and they are correct. If either of you wanted to remove all doubt, it might be helpful to post a screen-shot of the CS3 and CS4 Color Settings window.

Beyond that, it sounds like one of two possible problems/solutions:
- Some kind of corruption that occured during instalation of CS4. If that was the case, a de-install and re-install might be called for.

- Some rarer kind of problem due to your particular mix or hardware, installs, and so on. Could even be a very specific bug in PS. Probably necessary to pursue with Adobe Support in that case.

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New Here ,
Dec 23, 2008 Dec 23, 2008

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I have the same problem with CS4. I'm using Lightroom 2.2 as the basic tool and Photoshop for more detailed work.

If I compare LR to CS3 on the same monitor the images look identical. However, if I run the same test on CS4 I get an image similar to what Ray Knight describes!

I have a duel monitor system. I believe the problem for me is how CS4 handles monitor profiles when I move the image from one monitor to the other. I use a laptop LCD and an external high-res 21". Both are calibrated but have significantly different profiles.

CS4 always defaults to opening the image on my laptop - my primary monitor, so the first thing I do is move it to my external monitor. However, I notice that CS4 does not recognize the monitor change and therefore uses the same profile for the laptop monitor - which results in a poor looking image. If I save it back to LR the image looks great! If I do the same thing in CS3 the image always looks great. If I drag the same image in LR and CS4 to my laptop it looks great! So I believe CS4 is not interpreting the monitor profiles correctly. CS3 and LR2.2 always seem to handle this with no problems.

Not sure this solves your issues but I now have something to call Adobe or Apple about.

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New Here ,
Dec 23, 2008 Dec 23, 2008

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Howard, this sounds identical to what I'm seeing. I also have two monitors (both calibrated), and my images in PS CS4 open up on the Apple monitor. They actually look fine there, but when I move to the monitor I use for editing (LaCie 526) I notice the change. PS CS3 opens directly to the LaCie monitor. Where does photoshop assign a primary monitor, or how can this be changed? Thanks for your response.

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Guide ,
Dec 23, 2008 Dec 23, 2008

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>Where does photoshop assign a primary monitor

Photoshop does not.

>or how can this be changed?

At the OS level. For instance, on a Mac you use Display Preferences to do it.

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New Here ,
Dec 23, 2008 Dec 23, 2008

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Well I tried the ColorSnyc Utility, which allows you to select the default profile, but that did not solve the problem. Then I always go back and ask myself why CS3 and LR do it right and CS4 does not? I've been searching the web but can not find anything that helps!

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Guide ,
Dec 23, 2008 Dec 23, 2008

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Howard,

NOTE: I'm posting this to clear up any misunderstanding my previous post may have inadvertently created.

I've used dual monitors for many years. I see absolutely no change when moving any image from one monitor to another in Photoshop 7.0.1 through 11 (CS4). Photoshop is smart enough to read the profile for each monitor on the fly.

Even when I place half of the image in one monitor and the other half in the other one, Photoshop uses the correct monitor for each respective half of the image.

My response to Ray's question ("Where does photoshop assign a primary monitor?") has absolutely nothing to do with monitor profiles, only with which monitor will be the primary monitor, i.e. the one that hosts the menu bar with the Apple menu.

That is what you can change in the Display Preferences > Arrangement (Mac System Preferences).

The one thing that did change in CS4 is that image files now will always open on the primary monitor. In previous versions of Photoshop, you could just move an image to the secondary monitor, close it, and it or the next image would open on your secondary monitor too. That is not possible in CS4, at least in the current version.

However, the monitor profile used on each monitor respectively remains the correct one as set in Display Preferences > Color.

Photoshop knows how to apply each monitor profile to each monitor, unless the user has messed that up in Display Preferences > Color.

In Edit > Color Settings, you should be set to the Adobe Color Engine (ACE), not to Color Sync.

In my experience, the Apple CMM, Color Sync, has been unreliable for a long time. I just avoid it. (There are other legitimate uses for the ColorSync Utility, such as repairing profiles [Profile First Aid], visualizing and comparing their gamuts, etc.)

If both monitors are accurately calibrated and profiled, and if the appropriate monitor profiles are selected for each monitor separately in Display Preferences > Color, Photoshop will use them correctly on each monitor, in my experience.

Something is going wrong in Ray's setup, but there are not enough details to tell what. Screen shots of all the settings would be helpful.

Even the cheapest calibrator puck will produce a more accurate profile than can be achieved through Apple's built-in or any other eyeball calibrator like SuperCal.

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New Here ,
Dec 27, 2008 Dec 27, 2008

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I've used dual monitors for many years. I see absolutely no change when moving any image from one monitor to another in Photoshop 7.0.1 through 11 (CS4). Photoshop is smart enough to read the profile for each monitor on the fly.

HI> Although I'm new to the Mac platform, that has been my experience also.

Even when I place half of the image in one monitor and the other half in the other one, Photoshop uses the correct monitor for each respective half of the image.

HI> I agree, for CS3 and Lightroom that is how it works for me too.

My response to Ray's question ("Where does photoshop assign a primary monitor?") has absolutely nothing to do with monitor profiles, only with which monitor will be the primary monitor, i.e. the one that hosts the menu bar with the Apple menu.

That is what you can change in the Display Preferences > Arrangement (Mac System Preferences).

HI> Correct and I agree. But I believe Ray had that setup correctly to begin with, unless I did not understand him.

The one thing that did change in CS4 is that image files now will always open on the primary monitor. In previous versions of Photoshop, you could just move an image to the secondary monitor, close it, and it or the next image would open on your secondary monitor too. That is not possible in CS4, at least in the current version.

HI> My observation as well.

However, the monitor profile used on each monitor respectively remains the correct one as set in Display Preferences > Color.

Photoshop knows how to apply each monitor profile to each monitor, unless the user has messed that up in Display Preferences > Color.

HI> As stated, CS3 and Lightroom do apply colors correctly. CS4 does not.

In Edit > Color Settings, you should be set to the Adobe Color Engine (ACE), not to Color Sync.

HI> All my observations with CS4 have used ACE. I was getting frustrated and the ColorSync thing was an experiment to see if anything changed.

In my experience, the Apple CMM, Color Sync, has been unreliable for a long time. I just avoid it. (There are other legitimate uses for the ColorSync Utility, such as repairing profiles [Profile First Aid], visualizing and comparing their gamuts, etc.)

If both monitors are accurately calibrated and profiled, and if the appropriate monitor profiles are selected for each monitor separately in Display Preferences > Color, Photoshop will use them correctly on each monitor, in my experience.

HI> CS4 does not seem to work the same way. In fact, if you bring up the images in Bridge CS4 on my setup, the filmstrip version of the image will have the proper color profile (when I move it back and forth from one monitor to the other) and the selected preview image will not! I believe this is a bug in CS4! CS4 should apply the same color profile to each image in Bridge regardless of which monitor I move the window to.

Something is going wrong in Ray's setup, but there are not enough details to tell what. Screen shots of all the settings would be helpful.

HI> I'm not sure how your monitors are setup. Perhaps you have two monitors that are nearly the same and therefore your color profiles are close enough to not see the difference that Ray and I see. My monitors are setup correctly and I believe that Ray's are too.

Even the cheapest calibrator puck will produce a more accurate profile than can be achieved through Apple's built-in or any other eyeball calibrator like SuperCal.

HI> I use Graytag McBeth. However, even if I did not use any calibration, I should see the same results in the same window for Bridge CS4, regardless of how far the profiles were off! Comparing that with CS3 and Lightroom makes me believe that this is a software bug in CS4 not a setup issue.

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New Here ,
Dec 27, 2008 Dec 27, 2008

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Ramón, I have an experiment for you that will either tell Ray and I that we have a setup problem or that CS4 has a bug. If you choose to help us, try the following:

1. Setup your primary monitor with a totally different color profile. Something that makes your images look noticeably different between your two monitors.

2. Launch Bridge CS4 in your primary and use Filmstrip mode, make the Preview panel image about the same size as the Content panel image(s).

3. Drag the Bridge window from your primary to the secondary monitor. Note that when you release the mouse button the Content images snap to the color profile on the secondary monitor. However, the Preview image does not change (in this case means it does not snap to the different profile) and is noticeably different! They should be the same!

If you see no changes, comparatively speaking, between your Content and Preview then Ray and I have something different in our setup. However, if you confirm that they are different then I believe this points to a software bug in CS4. The color difference in the Preview panel is the same that I see in Photoshop and I believe is the same that Ray is seeing as well.

Thanks in advance for helping!

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Guide ,
Dec 27, 2008 Dec 27, 2008

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Howard, <br /> <br /> Your post is really difficult to read, Quotes are indistinguishable from text. <br /> <br /> Sorry, it's just not practical for me to perform your suggested experiment and, also, of dubious value the instant you introduce a bad profile. Totally irrelevant to my workflow and, besides, Bridge on my machine spans across the whole width of <b>both</b> monitors. The Preview panel is on the right, occupying the entire area of the primary monitor. It's impossible to "launch Bridge just on my primary monitor. <br /> <br />c <a href="http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1GfLN8WldUcroSADgSsVrSlwnFf0" /></a> <img alt="Picture hosted by Pixentral" src="http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1GfLN8WldUcroSADgSsVrSlwnFf0_thumb.jpg" border="0" /> <br />c Low-res, lowest quality JPEG screen shot. <br /> <br /> The colors in Bridge, however remain the same in the CONTENT panel on the right-hand side and the PREVIEW panel on the left. They're also the same when the image is opened in Photoshop, regardless of which monitor it resides in. <br /> <br /> [EDITED formatting]

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Guide ,
Dec 27, 2008 Dec 27, 2008

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Having dfferent bad profiles on each monitor you're bound to have different bad rendering of your colors on both monitors. That's why I say your suggested experiment is of dubious value.

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New Here ,
Dec 28, 2008 Dec 28, 2008

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I am having this same problem after upgrading from CS3.

Images in Bridge look fine, but they drastically change when you open them in CS4.

CS4 images are darker, have more contrast, and have a definite red cast to them.

From the camera I import into LR 2.2 and convert to DNG, make my adjustments, then open in CS4 and save as PSD. CS4 converts the final images to jpeg level 10 for submission to the lab (WHCC).

The last two sets of images from the lab went right into the trash. All were too dark, contrasty, and have bad red cast, even though I ended up making the image look okay on the monitor.

I'm using softproofing with WHCC's ICC profile.

I'm using Vista, single monitor, and Canon 5D.

I have never experienced this type of color mis-match problem before.

I'm going to re-process the images in CS3 and resubmit to WHCC and see if that corrects the problem.

The prints are even darker, more contrasty, and redder than what is on the screen.

There is something going on in CS4.

Any and all help would be appreciated.

I count on these images to come back the way they look on the monitor.

I calibrate the monitor weekly, and use Adobe RGB 1998 as my color space.

All settings are the same between CS3 and CS4. They just look and print differently in CS4.

Phil

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Guide ,
Dec 28, 2008 Dec 28, 2008

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Correcting an obvious typo in post #29:

The Preview panel is on the right, occupying the entire area of the primary monitor.


should read: The Preview panel is on the left , occupying the entire area of the primary monitor.

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New Here ,
Dec 28, 2008 Dec 28, 2008

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I've sent in a case to Adobe. Should hear from them soon.

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Guide ,
Dec 28, 2008 Dec 28, 2008

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> Should hear from them soon.

:D

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New Here ,
Dec 31, 2008 Dec 31, 2008

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Thank you to all who have responded. Right now I'm taking the easy way out - editing in ACR CS4, saving the file, opening and printing from CS3.

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New Here ,
Jan 03, 2009 Jan 03, 2009

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Update on my situation.

I changed three things, and my color problems appear to be fixed...

(1) Changed the default ACR profile back to ACR 4.4, it somehow got changed to something else...?

(2)unchecked "Desaturate monitor colors by..." in the advanced color settings box. I have no idea how it got checked in the first place...

(3) re-calibrated my monitor to 6500K instead of 5500k.

I never changed these settings,so I have no idea how they got changed, but these changes resolved my issues

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New Here ,
Jan 04, 2009 Jan 04, 2009

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I may have a different problem then the rest of you. Adobe accepted my report and opened a case so we'll see what that brings.

I have been able to isolate this down to a program error in CS4. The reason why I believe this to be true is because of observed behavior that I was able to reproduce in Bridge.

Let's say I have a folder with four images in it. If I open Bridge (filmstrip mode) in my primary monitor - the images all look good. However, if select one image from the content panel, observe the image in the preview and move the entire window to my secondary monitor - the preview of the selected image does not change - however, the filmstrip appears to modify itself to compensate for the secondary color monitor that I dragged the window into. If I now select another image in the same filmstrip the color appears to snap to the secondary monitors profile and all works as expected. As long as Bridge opens and closes on the same monitor all is well. As soon as I start to move the window to the other monitor I get the same initial bad color in the preview panel until I click another image in the filmstrip panel. It appears that the preview image does not compensate for the monitor change.

The preview panel image behavior is exactly the problem I see in Photoshop. However, I can not just tell Photoshop to always open images in my secondary monitor - it seems to always default to the primary. Since I'm unable to refresh the image, like I did in Bridge, the colors are consistently wrong.

CS3 did not work this way - if I closed an image in my secondary monitor the next image would open in the same space I closed the previous one and moving the window with the image from one monitor to the next always compensated for the color profile in the target monitor.

I believe that if I had a system with two identical monitors that the problem would be less noticeable. I believe I am able to see this better since I always use my secondary color calibrated monitor for editing since my primary is a laptop with an LCD which is unreliable for color reproduction even if I calibrate it all the time, which I do not.

So we will we what Adobe comes up with.

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New Here ,
Jan 05, 2009 Jan 05, 2009

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Wow. I have been struggling with this same problem for 2+ weeks and thought I was going to pull all my hair out.

PS CS4 is essentially unusable to me at this point. I really can't tell what's real anymore within PS.

I have tried everything mentioned in this thread - plus some - to no avail.

I "upgraded" from PS CS2 and did not experience this problem in CS2.

All my work looks perfect in just about any application I open it in (including Adobe Bridge!), but PS mucks it all up. I found adjusting the "Exposure" up ~0.5 or so in PS brings the image almost back to normal, but this PS behaviour is unacceptable.

I'll be watching for a fix for PS CS4, as I am quite certain the problem lies within.Meanwhile, it's back to CS2 for me.

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New Here ,
Jan 06, 2009 Jan 06, 2009

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Hi All,

I just upgraded to PS CS4 and have noticed the same problem.

I have a 24" iMac with a 23" Apple Cinema Display. The ACD is calibrated with ColorEyes Pro.

When I open an image in PS CS4 and move it to the ACD, the color profile for that monitor doesn't seem to get applied.

As a test, I opened the same image in PS CS3 and PS CS4 and moved them both to the calibrated ACD. The CS4 image looked reddish, the CS3 looked correct.

Rob

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New Here ,
Jan 06, 2009 Jan 06, 2009

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Welcome to the club! Same problem! Try my Bridge experiment above and I believe you will see that CS4 is not consistent within itself.

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New Here ,
Jan 07, 2009 Jan 07, 2009

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Is Bridge color managed?

When you 'synchronize' color management across CS4 applications, is Bridge included?

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New Here ,
Jan 07, 2009 Jan 07, 2009

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I believe the whole CS4 series is color managed. If not then it should be. Anyways, CS3 works fine and CS4 does not. That also probably tells us the ACR is not the culprit since I believe you replace CS3's ACR with CS4's when you upgrade.

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