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Similar sequential captures (time lapse) behave differently to edit controls.

Community Beginner ,
Feb 25, 2023 Feb 25, 2023

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Camera: Fujifilm X-H2s

Camera Raw: 15.2 version on Win 10

Bug: please compare the two files and adjust the high lights, they are not on the same range

 

I’ve been using Fujifilm X-H2s for a few months, I did a few times of time lapse, I found the raw files sometimes were not on the same exposure, I thought it was the camera’s problem or my wrong operating, until then, I picked the two files and sent to my friend who is using Mac system, and he showed me they were on the same range. Even I asked another friend to try on Win System, he got the same situation, so now I am reporting this to you, any problem please send me Email, <Removed for Privacy>, thanks.

 

The system didn’t allow me to upload raw files, please check this link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Vmw345gNFjmF2urbsUqL2lC7e5usRwMT

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Adobe Employee ,
Mar 27, 2023 Mar 27, 2023

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Hi @MATTHEW28594348e9jk curious if you have noticed any change with the recent update, 24.3?

 

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 27, 2023 Mar 27, 2023

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Hi @CoryShubert till didn't be fixed, Matthew

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Enthusiast ,
Mar 29, 2023 Mar 29, 2023

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This is not a bug - it is by design.

It may not be intuitive and what you would expect, but it is what it is.
In short - tools in Lightroom are content-dependent.

What is considered shadows, highlights, blacks and whites depends on actual image - tonal ranges are not fixed.
Because of this you get this effect.

I can't tell for sure why it acts so differently on visually very similar images thought...

For how to deal with this you could watch this video: Stop Lightroom from messing up your timelapses 
Or you could switch your images to the older Process Version (v1 or v2) - this will also help, but the tools will be different to what you used to.

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 29, 2023 Mar 29, 2023

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Hi @FSt0p It’s hard to make people believe it’s not a bug, because as I described they are working well on Mac system. If you tried the two files in Win system and Mac system, you will find the difference. If it’s a bug, it should be as same as in Mac.

 

So the solution is kind of pushing users go for Mac or C1? That’s upset T_T

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Enthusiast ,
Mar 29, 2023 Mar 29, 2023

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I missed your point that it's ok on Mac, sorry.

Then yes - it should be a bug.

Tested on Win 10 22H2 and it's the same behaviour you've showed.

 

Things that I wrote still applies: same development settings will result in different visual appearance if image content changes.
For example when the clouds are moving this will lead to changes in the sky brightness if extreme highlight recovery is used, and will lead to flickering.

But it's not that extreme brigtness changes as in your case.

 

Also, I've tested before posting - changing ProcessVersion to v2 may be used as a workaround, but in my opinion that's a bad solution to the problem that should not exist on the first place...

 

@Rikk Flohr: Photography - could you please verify this and possibly convert to bug report?
For me, it's 100% reproducible on Windows with the provided images.

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 29, 2023 Mar 29, 2023

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Thanks a lot, hope it could be fixed soon.

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Adobe Employee ,
Mar 30, 2023 Mar 30, 2023

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The Camera Raw team has reviewed and determined this is not a bug. 

"Certain controls are sensitive to the image content because they automatically set their ranges and behaviors based on the range of tones in the picture.  While these images look quite similar, their distribution of shadow content is different because of the position of the water.  This causes the Shadows control to behave quite differently at higher values like close to +60.

 

Unfortunately, this image-adaptive behavior makes Highlights, Shadows, Clarity, and Dehaze problematic when used on time lapse sequences.  

 

The recommendation is to avoid these controls in this situation and instead use Parametric or Point Curves, which will be “stable” across the sequence."

 

I hope that helps.

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products

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Enthusiast ,
Mar 30, 2023 Mar 30, 2023

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Well, that's basically what I've replied in my first message.

But @MATTHEW28594348e9jk claims that results with the same files are different on Mac system compared to Windows.

I can't test by myself as I don't have access to Mac.

Maybe someone else can test on the Mac and post the results here...
If indeed behaviour on different OS's differs - this should be a bug.

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 30, 2023 Mar 30, 2023

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Hi @Rikk Flohr: Photography I am sorry that this response makes me question the professionalism, logical reasoning, and problem-solving ability of the team.

 

Did you test these two files with different systems, Win and Mac? It's extremely irresponsible to give such a robotic response without any comparison.

 

The “bug” has been reported for a while, and so far it seems hasn't been a clear test. It seems like you're just trying to evade responsibility or that this is an issue that cannot be resolved, please do the test between Win and Mac before talking.

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Enthusiast ,
Mar 31, 2023 Mar 31, 2023

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@MATTHEW28594348e9jk - calm down a bit.
I get your feelings, but this will not help.

Let's simplify this a bit.

So basically what you are saying has nothing to do with timelapses at all.

Your claim is that the same file with the same settings shows different results on different OSs.

Could you please post a screenshot of ACR with the DSCF6155.RAF from your archive open with Highlights set to -100 with the file name and settings visible on screen from Windows (should be very dark, almost black) and same screenshot from Mac showing the difference.

I guess that would be enough to proove your point.

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 31, 2023 Mar 31, 2023

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Hi @FSt0p @Rikk Flohr: Photography I am so sorry that I just did another test on Mac, I found it’s the same situation on Mac, I got wrong information from my friend at start, I will report this to Fuji, thanks.

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Adobe Employee ,
Mar 31, 2023 Mar 31, 2023

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"Did you test these two files with different systems, Win and Mac? It's extremely irresponsible to give such a robotic response without any comparison."

 

I did. That makes your 'irresponsible' and your "please do the test between Win and Mac before talking." comments moot. 

 

The two files were tested on Windows 10 and Mac 13.2.1. The two files behave as expected across the two operating systems. The files render differently to each other under extreme slider operation but remain consistent between Win/Mac.

Rereading your original post, evaluating my results, and considering them in the context of the Camera Raw team's analysis, I find nothing to indicate there is any issue here other than the stated operational limitation of certain sliders in a time-lapse construct.

If you can give tangible evidence outside of the material presented thus far, I am happy to carry it back to the team. 

 

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 31, 2023 Mar 31, 2023

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I am sorry, you showed your professionalism, I eat my words, it was my mistake, but I am wondering if there is any possible that your team can fix it? because I found it’s only happened on highlights and shadows, others seem work well, and I did hundreds photos of time lapse, there are about 20 photos got the problems, if your team would like to study on it, I would like to share to you, please let me know, thanks.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 31, 2023 Mar 31, 2023

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I think this has been very fully explained by now: it is not a bug. There is nothing to fix. Newer process versions are image adaptive by design, and this is a known side effect. I have been aware of this for many years, it's nothing new.

 

Two practical workarounds have been proposed: Go back to Process Version 2, which is not image adaptive, or use Curves, which is a static adjustment with fixed behavior.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 03, 2023 Apr 03, 2023

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Maybe it’s not a bug to camera raw, but another friend shows me the situation on Capture one, it shows work well. For my understanding, no matter if it’s a “bug”, let’s make things easier, it’s a problem for users, right? So it needs to be fixed as a problem. As a Adobe user for many years, I don’t really wanna change to C1, just hope Adobe team can fix it.

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 31, 2023 Mar 31, 2023

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Anyway, I will report to Fuji as well, and do some test on C1, any updates I will let you know.

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