Sony A7iv noise issue

[AB842]

I bought a Sony A7iv in December and I have had constant issues editing photos in lightroom/camera raw. I am running the current version of camera raw (11.1 Camera Raw 14.1) and shooting uncompressed raw files in the camera. The issue I'm having is whenever I add clarity or boost the shadows or boost the exposure, I begin to get hundreds of white pixels in the shadows of the image to the point of being unpublishable.

I've made sure I'm not shooting in any picture profiles and DRO is off in the camera. 

I've called both Sony and Adobe support. Sony had me open the raw files Imaging Edge - their proprietary software - and the issue didn't show up so they told me the won't help me. Adobe said can't do anything but the issue might get resolved whenever camera raw is updated. As a final test, I opened the images in Capture 1 and the white pixels aren't their but the image is so soft I wouldn't consider the image usable. 

I've attached screen captures and a .jpg export of an example. You can see the adjustments I make to the image on the right side of the screen capture. 

I've read online that some people had the same issue with the Sony A7iii and ended up returning is because the issue was never fixed. I'm a full-time photography that was planning on transition from Fuji to Sony but this is a serious issue that make this camera essentially a brick. 

[Ian Lyons · Accepted solution]

White pixels normally indicates that pixel is stuck 'On', but unlike dead pixels tend to be random. 

BTW, is this your post on Reddit?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Lightroom/comments/s9hzvj/sony_a7iv_files_have_white_pixels_in_the_shadows/

If not, then worth reading as others in the linked thread seem to be of the opinion that it's not unusual issue. I also read in another thread on the same forum that there is a menu option in the A7 IV for remapping pixels. Pixel remapping is also mentioned in context of A7 IV in this thread at DPReview https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4621325

Also, looking through Andrew's results with RawDigger indicate that the white dots are present in the original raw file. As to not appearing in C1 or Imaging Edge may well be as a result of the default noise reduction being stronger than Adobe use in CR and LrC/LrD

[AB842]

I've seen that post and pixel remapping doesn't do anything to resolve the issue. The issue isn't white pixels/spec/dots appearing on the image SOOC (straight out of camera), the issue starts whenever I make an edit - boost the exposure slider, add clarity, boost the shadow slider, etc... - a massive amount of white pixels effect the shadow area unlike anything I've seen on a digital camera from the last 10 years. This issue makes editing or post-processing files impossible because the shadow detail falls apart almost immediately after making any adjustments.

Here is an example of how it could effect a different type of photographer. If a product photographer wants the backdrop of a product to be true black while the product is properly exposed (so the exposure of the image isn't "ideal" but the desired exposure of the photographer). They take the photo, bring it into a raw convert, add +20 clarity and suddenly the backdrop area is covered in white pixels that weren't visible before the edit of +20 clarity. The image looked normal SOOC (straight out of camera) but any edit will cause a dramatic degradation in image quality to such an extreme point there is something clearly wrong with either the camera or the software.

I have troubleshoot all the common camera setting issues people have complained about online. 

In RawDigger, I'm able to open raw files and look at the histogram, individual pixels RGB values, display RGB values, and turn on under/over exposure indicators but I don't see any way to isolate these white dots. As @TheDigitalDog said, he was able to see the white dots in RawDigger using the exported .DNG out of lightroom. Any screencapture he posted with the file ending in .dng has been through lightroom. I see the same thing he does, yes there are obviously white pixels/specs/dots. 

I'm doing my best to explain myself but I don't think you all understand the issue. Thank you for everyone's time, I wish this was more productive. I'll be occasionally looking at this thread but will likely stop replying. The evidence of the issue - the raw files, dng files, screen captures, and youtube video - will be available is anyone else is having a similar issue with a Sony a7vi.

[TheDigitalDog]

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@AB842 wrote:

I'm doing my best to explain myself but I don't think you all understand the issue. 

 Wow!

“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Søren Kierkegaard

[AB842]

Dude, I'm just trying to figure out what's wrong with my camera, software, or post-processing workflow. I just spent +$5000 on a new camera and lens setup that is seemlying worthless. Thank you for your time and patients.  

[AB842]

patience* i wish there was a way to edit posts. 

[Per Berntsen]

I downloaded a Sony A7iv ISO 6400 raw file from DPreview, and it does not have any white spots in the shadows.

So maybe something is wrong with your camera. 

https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/9601355361/sony-a7-iv-sample-gallery/2010533414

I don't do much high ISO work, so I tested my Nikon Z7 at 6400, and the images were a lot noisier than those from the Sony A7iv. My impression is that the A7iv has excellent high ISO performance.

[TheDigitalDog]

I downloaded a Sony A7iv ISO 6400 raw file from DPreview, and it does not have any white spots in the shadows.

By @Per Berntsen

I did the same, plus converted a copy to DNG, just to see if the conversion was wonky (unlikely, and no, the two are identical in RawDigger). And as you saw, zero white dots on this end too. Of course, this raw isn't as massively underexposed as the samples provided here. This is again why I suggested a sound test with a setup whereby an image is bracketed from correct (ideal exposure for raw) and underexposed, ideally by a few stops, to see what shows in the raw. The OP doesn't want to go there it seems so at this point, without a correctly exposed raw and one also underexposed, we don't know if the single camera is the issue or just massive underexposure of the raw data.

[TheDigitalDog]

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@AB842 wrote:

Dude, I'm just trying to figure out what's wrong with my camera, software, or post-processing workflow. 

---

Start by listening to facts and reason. 

[Andrew23040643vbj6]

@Per Berntsen I've talked to Sony and they won't physically look at it because they don't see the issue in Imaging Edge. I'm currently in the process of trying to find two other Sony A7iv cameras to compare mine to. If my camera only has any issue hopefully they take it back. This is the direction I'm heading. I'm done with this thread.

@TheDigitalDog this whole bracketing a properly exposed photo with an under exposed suggestion doesn't help. The issue is when editing a photo in ACR the shadows fall apart. As an example, an astrophotographer takes a photo of the dark sky with stars properly exposed. They like the image but think it requires more clarity but whenever they add +10, the image get covered in white pixels. The issue isn't about nailing the exposure in camera, it's about having the capability of editing the photo afterwards. Thank you for your tests and feedback. We agree there are white pixels in the files I've provided, but if you don't have any suggestions other than 'take a properly exposed image' you aren't helping. 

This is OP. I just purchased a second account to test if the problem is somehow an account issue. 

[TheDigitalDog]

 I'm done with this thread.

@TheDigitalDog this whole bracketing a properly exposed photo with an under exposed suggestion doesn't help.

By @Andrew23040643vbj6

You should be done, you've made up your mind and can't accept a proper testing methodology.

You can't accept that another, not massively underexposed image, like yours, shows no white dots.

You can't accept that I could remove any visible white dots in ACR from your massively underexposed raw and can't answer, why you cannot do the same.

You can't accept that the white dots are YOUR massively under exposed raw provided and that is all you have provided.

Maybe next time, you'll do more research and not automatically blame an Adobe product for what is a failure to test and expose your raws.

Adiós

[aleksandarr]

I am sorry if me waking up this thread goes against some rules, or is annoying, but I am interested in this topic, as in a few weeks I will probably put my money on this camera, and lose so much money in leaving my Nikon dslrs behind 🙂
While the certain post is marked as "resolved", i just couldn't understand from it what was the issue, so I thought of asking if there is any news about this issue.
While few of you mention dpreview RAWs, actually, on their preview app, if ISO 6400 is selected, and the lowlight option turned on, there ARE white dots in the darkest parts of an image. I am not sure will you be able to see it in the provided image, but I'm sure you can see it for yourself if you select options on dpreview website.
thedigitaldog: images that OP posted IS NOT underexposed too much. Parts that your rawdigger shows as underexposed are those parts that - have to be dark. The image of the speaker is ok enough. Also, there should be room for brightening even the most underexposed parts, without these artefacts. I used to get them only in EXTREME edits, from Canon cameras (my Nikon raws do not have these, although the image fall apart too)

[TheDigitalDog]

thedigitaldog: images that OP posted IS NOT underexposed too much. Parts that your rawdigger shows as underexposed are those parts that - have to be dark. The image of the speaker is ok enough. Also, there should be room for brightening even the most underexposed parts, without these artefacts. 

By @aleksandarr

“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Søren Kierkegaard

Worth repeating once again!

Rawdigger is not being fooled.

Good luck with your purchase.

[aleksandarr]

I agree. Then, there is you, or me.
You did not provide any argument, you are just using rawdigger application as a crutch.
And, Rawdigger shows you - the public is heavily underexposed, the speaker is not *(heavily)
I don't think you were fooled, just you refuse to think about actual problem.

[TheDigitalDog]

I agree. Then, there is you, or me.
You did not provide any argument, you are just using rawdigger application as a crutch.

By @aleksandarr

The absurd is the last refuge of a pundit without an argument.

Thankfully, the correct answer was provided many months ago above. 

[808SM]

This is a massively huge issue that has been dismissed. Experiencing it right now in LR. The image is not poorly exposed, either. This is a huge issue that many users may not have experienced quite yet.

[foxandlens]

This thread should never have been marked with an answer because the answer isn't the correct one. This is a long running adobe lightroom/ACR problem that's been happening for years. It doesn't happen on other raw developers. It kind of reminds me of that unique bug that ONLY adobe products have with using lens profile corrections correctly without adding patterns. And other commenters here are correct that the image is NOT underexposed. Plus we're talking about Sony files here. This camera is practically ISO invariant from ISO 400 up through the analog range (ISO 400 is its second base ISO). Have you tried forcing lightroom to build full previews instead of smart previews? I think something is really off with adobe's rendering, as the noise will disappear and reappear as you zoom and move the preview around. The problem is 1,000% adobe and not on Sony's end at all.

[NeilGJester]

Completely agree.  I'm having the same issue with my a7iv, which didn't happen with my a7iii.  Capture one raw processor works fine, but Adobe's raw processor has so much more noise in the shadows.  Been using Adobe and Sony for years.  I've only had this issue with the a7iv.