Sony Alpha 1 RAW support when?

[thakala]

Hello,

Are there any estimates when recently announced Sony Alpha 1 RAW files would be supported by Camera RAW? March, April?

[JP Hess · Accepted solution]

I don't follow camera announcements, haven't seen the announcement for that camera model. If it has only been announced, and hasn't been introduced or released then I question whether it's even on Adobe's radar at this time. Camera companies don't work with Adobe. They aren't concerned about whether or not their raw format is compatible with Adobe software. Camera Raw isn't a concern of theirs. The camera has to be released to the public so that Adobe can acquire the camera and then create support for that specific model. Depending on when the model is actually released, and when that corresponds with the release cycle of Camera Raw will depend on when support will be added. In the meantime, if you decide to purchase model there's nothing preventing you from shooting JPEG images. It won't break the camera. And many times users will complain they don't have features available, not realizing they have actually been shooting in JPEG mode. Adobe adds support for new models as quickly as they can. If the camera manufacturers would adopt the DNG format instead of insisting on their own unique raw format it would really solve a lot of this compatibility problem.

Added later: I did a little searching on this model. Very impressive! I checked a couple of websites that usually offer sample images, and there aren't even sample JPEG images yet. So I suppose it will be a while before there will be raw support for this model. One thing is for sure, however. With that kind of a price tag, it isn't something I will ever have to worry about.

[D Fosse]

An impressive camera indeed, although the price pushes it almost into the medium format segment along with Phase One and Hasselblad.

If the specs hold up, this is the resolution of a7r, the video and low light capabilities of a7s, and the speed of a9, all rolled into one. The question is - who needs all of that? Not many. There might be a market in fashion/advertising, MF stronghold now, with a camera that basically does all that medium format does, but much faster.

How time flies. It feels like I got the a7r iii a month ago, top of the heap then, and already it's...left behind 😉

[thakala]

@D Fosse it is more a sports/wildlife camera than a studio camera, 30 fps should be very good for photographing birds (which I do) since it allows cathing those fleeting moments of bird having wings in perfect pose while taking off or landing.

But is is a lot of money, pricewise Sony is now on par with Canon 1DX3 and Nikon D6

[D Fosse]

Yes, but 30fps is electronic (silent) shutter only. With mechanical shutter it's 10fps - still fast enough for any practical purpose I should imagine.

Actually, electronic shutter is something you should be very careful with. Rolling shutter effects (strongly slanted and/or curved edges) can ruin an image quickly. I've had a few. It's caused by scanning the sensor line by line, and unfortunately it's often very pronounced at "normal" shutter speeds and quick movements, whether by human or bird. I use it on the a7r iii when I absolutely have to, when I'm not allowed to make any noise whatsoever - but I always turn on the mechanical shutter as quickly as possible.

LED lights and "zebra stripes" is another potential issue with electronic shutter. But I assume you won't be photographing birds indoors... 😉

[thakala]

I am aware of rolling shutter effect, photographing birds with my current a7R IV impossible using electronic shutter because of huge amount of distortion it causes. But Alpha 1 (and Alpha 9) does not suffer of this, they have a clever sensor with extremely fast readout which eliminates rolling shutter effect.

[D Fosse]

They don't say they "eliminated" it. They say it's "50% improved", whatever that means.

Don't get me wrong, the a1 is obviously a superb camera that will set a whole new standard, and I don't mind admitting that I want one 😉

[CatCynic]

Rolling shutter is almost entirely eliminated on the A1. It's improved over the A9 (probably where you saw the 50% better quote), but it is way better than any other mirror less. The stacked sensor has RAM behind the sensor to let it capture images much faster. It can clear the entire sensor in a fraction of the time that an A7R series can (I don't recall the exact fraction, but it is something like a tenth of the time possibly even less).

It has the ability to eliminate striping from flickering light (because it is so quick)

It even offers a flash sync of 1/200 on electronic shutter (or 1/400 on mechanical).

And the EVF does not black out when taking a shot - it's disconcerting the first time you try it, because you don't realise the image is captured!

[TheDigitalDog]

Until Adobe gets a raw from this camera, they can't even start to support it, sad. 

If the camera manufacturers would simply let Adobe sign an NDA and send them the raws a few months before release, you'd have no wait on support. The delay, which will likely be a few months, is totally Sony (and Canon, and Nikon and fill in the blanks) fault. That's the good we photographers get from proprietary raws. 

[CatCynic]

I don't think we know if it's Sony / Canon / Nikon who won't share with Adobe, or Adobe who won't sign the NDAs... As you point out, it would be in the camera makers interests to share with Adobe, so how come no one does? I suspect it's not as simple as "evil camera companies hate Adobe users".

btw: I see that Capture 1 just announced A1 support.  Pity, because I prefer Photoshop and ACR. Still, I doubt it will be much longer.

[Conrad C]

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@CatCynic wrote:

I don't think we know if it's Sony / Canon / Nikon who won't share with Adobe, or Adobe who won't sign the NDAs...

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We do know. Because this isn't a new question. It comes up every time there is a new camera. Below is a link to a post from ten years ago…same question, same answer: Why doesn’t Adobe work with the camera companies? Because the camera companies don’t want to share their proprietary raw formats. The camera companies have been asked over the years, and most refuse.

Photography: Raw File Support - Requests and Information?

In his article about the 30th birthday of Photoshop, Jeff Schewe, who has been involved with Camera Raw and Lightroom from the beginning, wrote:

Camera Raw has been a huge success for the digital photography industry, but it wasn’t all rainbows and unicorns. Photographers constantly complained that Adobe took too long to support their just released new cameras. It seems that the camera companies weren’t too friendly to Adobe and the Camera Raw initiative.

The camera companies wanted control over their own proprietary raw file formats and didn’t want to disclose any secrets to some San Jose software company. All the camera makers–Nikon and Canon in particular–wanted to control “the look” of the raw capture processing because they thought the look was something they could compete on.

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And it isn’t just about Adobe. Here’s the same subject discussed from the Apple Aperture point of view:

When will my new camera have RAW support in Aperture?

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The fact is, often the software engineers have to reverse-engineer the new RAW formats to make them work with their software, and more importantly, to work at their best with their software. Since the camera manufacturers don’t always send pre-release cameras to the software companies, the folks at Apple and Adobe quite often have to wait until a camera is on the market to start working on support for it.

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If another software developer has added raw support for a camera, they have typically reverse-engineered it on their own, just like Adobe and everyone else has to do.

[D Fosse]

it would be in the camera makers interests to share with Adobe, so how come no one does?

It would indeed, and it's really a crazy situation. And yet, there it is. This is how Sony/Nikon/Canon think - we're not making this up. Adobe is competition, and they don't share.

Considering the huge user base of ACR/Lightroom, you'd think this was a no-brainer. Make sure it's supported, and you'd sell 100 000 more cameras. But no, they seem stuck in this outdated thinking.

Anyway, the a1 is now supported with ACR 13.2.

[JP Hess]

I have looked on a few websites for sample images for this camera model, and there aren't even JPEG samples available yet. So I suspect it will be a while before Adobe will provide raw support.

[Tim Dunkler]

still no support for this cam? cmon adobe pls hurry up.

[D Fosse]

Tell Sony to provide sample files to Adobe prior to camera release. Or better yet, tell them to start supporting the openly documented DNG specification.

Then the whole problem goes away instantly.

[D Fosse]

Oh, and BTW, support was added in the ACR 13.2 update released today.

And the a1 is still not on the shelves in the major stores here...that's pretty fast, wouldn't you say?

[CatCynic]

I don't have a shipping date for my A1, so my processing setup will be ready before the camera arrives. That will do very nicely, thank you! 

I looked up the update, and it's not explicit whether lossless compressed RAW files are supported. Are you able to say?

[D Fosse]

Er...why would you buy the most expensive 36x24 sensor camera currently on the market, and then skimp on disk space? Compressed files are always problematic, if not now, then later. Keep them uncompressed.

[CatCynic]

You'll note that I said "lossless" compressed RAW - this is a new format introduced with the A1. Gives all of the detail of an uncompressed RAW (which is what I have always used with Sony - I don't like lossy compressed RAW files), but occupies about half the space, so I will be able to fit about twice as many files onto a memory card.

Funnily enough, your comments are similar to what I have said to people who push lossy compressed RAW 🙂 Disk space is ridiculously cheap (but high speed memory cards are not growing as fast as disk).

I've explained to others that lossy compressed RAW is like JPEG (at levels below "complete") - you can lose fine detail. On the other hand, lossless compressed RAW is like ZIP - you get back exactly what went in - every bit.

Note that Canon's RAW files have been lossless compressed since at least mid-2000s. Nikon was offering lossless compressed RAW since at least the D810 (I think earlier). It's not a new thing, except for Sony, who has only offered lossy compressed or uncompressed.

Hence the question of whether this new lossless compressed format is supported by ACR yet. I'll happily use uncompressed until it is supported (as long as I know - I'd hate to capture a bunch of images in lossless compressed RAW and be unable to process them in ACR...).  BTW: I noticed that Capture One's support of the A1 specifically calls out that they do not yet support losslesss compressed format.

[D Fosse]

Yes, I did notice you said lossless - but that wasn't the point. The point was that compressed ARW is a proprietary Sony algorithm, and they don't share. Only Sony have the key to that vault.

My other point was that you will spend $6500 on the camera, as much (probably) on lenses, but not $100 for a 256GB memory card?

[thakala]

@D Fosse please stop arguing since you clearly do not know this camera, it uses CF Express Type A cards which are limited currently to max 160 GB and one of those costs a whooping 400 USD

[D Fosse]

Fine. I'll stick to my two a7riii's.

[CatCynic]

As far as I know, 256GB SD memory cards are slower than 128GB SD cards, so you'd be slowing the camera down. The cards you need to get for the best performance of the A1, however, are the new, much faster CFexpress cards, only available in 80GB and 160GB - no 256GB option.

[D Fosse]

CFexpress is a new standard, and few make them. Prices will probably drop over time.

In the meantime, I see SD is still supported and perfectly usable with the a1. Both types go in the same slot, just with the contacts on opposite sides.

[CatCynic]

Yes, I expect prices to drop.

Meanwhile, a 128GB Sony SD card has a write speed of 300MB/s, while the 256GB card from the same brand has a write speed of 150MB/s. In contrast, a CFexpress type A card (the A1 takes type A so it do the SD/CFexpressA slots) has a write speed of 700MB/s. 

And yes, I have bought a couple of CFexpress Type A cards.