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P: Add color target profiling to Camera RAW panel

Community Beginner ,
Sep 14, 2022 Sep 14, 2022

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Please add a color profiling step to the Camera RAW processing panel. This would consist of a step wherein a reference image with a color target (Calibrite, SpyderColor, etc) is selected, and the color swatches designated by the user or automatic detection. The corrected color profile could then be easily applied to the complete set of images being processed.

For example: I work in product photography, and we struggle to get colors to stay consistent between cameras, lenses, strobe, and room variation. Currently there is an intensely manual process to color-match images of the same product shot on different sets. The ability to correct these variations with a common color checker target would be extremely helpful.

In the video world, these features are becoming commonplace in the color grading process: matching two cameras is becoming as simple as shooting them both at the same target, and making an automated correction, after which the colorist can edit from a common starting point. See: https://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/davinci-resolve-tip-using-a-color-chart-to-match-your-shots/

Currently, it is extremely difficult and time-consuming to use the third-party apps to generate a calibration sidecar file, import it, and keep track of these files. Integrating the color target calibration process as a single step in Camera RAW would allow large batches of images to be processed quickly to a more color-accurate starting point for retouching, and would be enormously helpful for anyone matching colors from different locations or multiple cameras.

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DNG profile creator , Lens profile creator

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11 Comments
LEGEND ,
Sep 15, 2022 Sep 15, 2022

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First of all, the Spyder product is a massive kludge, this isn't a true MacBeth Color Checker; they have to provide this functionality and have to create a DNG/DCP profile and they don't. 

WITH a true MacBeth capture, this functionality exists with the FREE plug-in from X-rite which of course produces a real target and a true DNG profile from this. What DataColor is doing is a mess, a kludge and it isn't even producing a camera profile. 

True DNG/DCP profiles built this way, from multiple companies using a standard target all work the same way with this correct target and by creating a DNG/DCP profile. Only DataColor has subverted this path by making their own proprietary target, then updating other areas of the LR/ACR processing path. It's a mess. BTW, what DataColor states here is completely wrong: https://spyder-support.datacolor.com/hc/en-us/articles/4406395593234-What-is-the-difference-between-...

 

"DNG profiles have the disadvantage of requiring a DNG conversion in advance, which may not reflect your usual RAW workflow, and DNG profiles are not easy to edit, if you have any editing tools for them at all".

DCP/DNG profiles work on proprietary raws or DNG. This is mostly snake oil and FUD, pass! 

 

Just get a MacBeth ColorChecker (or Passport) target. Everything you want to do is possible, including creating the profiles directly in LR using the free X-rite plug-in which will also be seen in ACR. And you can pick it as a preset, use it as an initial option on opening/working with the raws by the camera model, etc. 

See: https://www.xrite.com/service-support/installing_the_colorchecker_passport_software

Then see what an actual DCP profile, that again, at least half a dozen other companies fully support expect DataColor bring to the party:

 

Everything you thought you wanted to know about DNG/DCP camera profiles:
All about In this 30 minute video, we will look into the creation and use of DNG (.dcp) camera profiles in three raw converters. The video covers:
What are DNG camera profiles, how do they differ from ICC camera profiles.
Misconceptions about DNG camera profiles.
Just when, and why do you need to build custom DNG camera profiles?
How to build custom DNG camera profiles using the X-rite Passport software.
The role of various illuminants on camera sensors and DNG camera profiles.
Dual Illuminant DNG camera profiles.
Examples of usage of DNG camera profiles in Lightroom, ACR, and Iridient Developer.
Low Rez (YouTube):
http://youtu.be/_fikTm8XIt4
High Rez (download):
http://www.digitaldog.net/files/DNG%20Camera%20profile%20video.mov

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Community Expert ,
Sep 16, 2022 Sep 16, 2022

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quote

See: https://www.xrite.com/service-support/installing_the_colorchecker_passport_software


By @TheDigitalDog

I get a 404 error when using your link! 😞

ABAMBO | Hard- and Software Engineer | Photographer

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LEGEND ,
Sep 16, 2022 Sep 16, 2022

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Most of the US site is down or wonky, try the EU site:

https://support.xritephoto.eu/software-downloads/

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 22, 2022 Sep 22, 2022

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Yes, I'm aware of a more generalized calibration workflow--perhaps I'm not using correct terminology. What I'm looking for is a way to create a scene-referenced calibration on a per-setup basis, with the intent to eliminate mismatch issues from variation introduced by sensor, lens, strobe, and modifier variances. The fabrics we're shooting are designed with high levels of metamerism in the colors, which makes them highly sensitive to all these variables and frankly a nightmare to color match between sets, cameras, and different days. Already, I've had to solve an issue with IR color contamination which would cause dark greens to shift profoundly orange/brown, caused by high levels of IR and NIR light present in strobe lighting. Simply taking a white balance just isn't cutting it--I need a way to calibrate for a given lighting setup, and be able to color match the products at a later date in a way that doesn't involve a retoucher eyeballing it.
In the film/video world, these color targets allow for exactly that operation--Da Vinci Resolve specifically added the function to color-match two cameras shooting the same target in the same scene. Surely it's not a stretch for this to be applied in a similar manner here--using a color target to color correct for minor variations introduced by the above factors in otherwise-similar lighting setups. I'm not trying to be obtuse, just frankly frustrated that there's not a straightforward solution (hah! Straightforward? For COLOR?).

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LEGEND ,
Sep 22, 2022 Sep 22, 2022

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Do you really want scene referred? 

http://www.color.org/scene-referred.xalter

 

And you're OK it's often very ugly (unattractive)? 

http://www.color.org/ICC_white_paper_20_Digital_photography_color_management_basics.pdf

 

And of course, you want metamerism and not metameric failure. 

Metamerism is a simple attribute: two (2) samples with different spectra compared to each other with a given set of viewing conditions produce a match. Metamerism only applies to two color patches when they are compared to each other. It is incorrect to refer to one color from a given ink or paper and say that it suffers from metamerism. A "meterameric pair of color patches" means that they appear to match under a given illuminant. However, they may not appear to match under another illuminant. Metamers ("metameric stimuli") by definition, are two different spectrums that appear to be the same color. If they don't look the same color, they are not metamers.

If it was not for metamerism, none of our three color reproduction systems would work.  Because of metamerism, we are able, using only three colors, to cause the human vision system to perceive a match between this tristimulus reproduction system and full spectral pigment.

Metamerism is not a fault in a given color reproduction system.  Metamerism is a good thing!

If you are viewing a print (lots of colors) within different viewing conditions, and there is a mismatch, this could be called a metameric mismatch or metameric failure. But it's not metamerism. One sample (the print) compared to itself in differing viewing conditions, the proper term would be when they appear to match is color constancy and when they don't, color inconstancy. The lack of a defined term for the metameric mismatch is the problem.  "Metameric failure" is the best so far because it is unambiguous.

 


@Blaise Douros wrote:

Yes, I'm aware of a more generalized calibration workflow--perhaps I'm not using correct terminology.

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 22, 2022 Sep 22, 2022

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I do appreciate the dedication to making sure I'm getting my terminology
right. I am not a color scientist, just a shooter/producer with a slightly
more technical bent than is good for me, and a video background that gives
me some experience with tools outside the usual photography suites. More
specifically, I'm the guy that everybody yells at when products don't color
match as well as they think they should.

In the garment industry, particularly in color, metamerism is a two-fold
discussion: yes, in fact, I often deal with metamerism in the context
you're mentioning--two different fabric types are often dyed with wildly
different dye combinations to produce what appears to be the same color,
though it is not. But we also refer to colors that have a high propensity
of changing in relation to the given environment as exhibiting metamerism.
Olive greens are a great example of a color that does this.

But I digress: Ultimately, what I want is this: for ACR to allow my (or,
you know, any) retouching team to do what a film colorist can easily do:
use color targets to match two or more cameras to correct for variances in
sensor, lens, and minor lighting differences. I know it's possible because
DaVinci Resolve already does this, using the exact same color targets we
use in photography (and I might be wrong, but I thought I read that
Premiere Pro's Lumetri Color tool added this in a recent version). Whatever
terminology I need to use to say this, I'd be happy for you to educate me.
But that's what I'm after, and calibration is the closest term I know.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 22, 2022 Sep 22, 2022

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A URL on DCP profiles and what they provide has been posted.

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 22, 2022 Sep 22, 2022

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Yes, I went through it in detail. Hence, the feature request to make it
work in a more useful way, without a round trip to a third-party app. I
also posted a link to the Resolve workflow I'd like to see in a similar
form in ACR.

I say in ACR specifically because it's not possible to do layered retouch
work with pathing, etc, in Lightroom, and thus, it would be most useful to
see it directly integrated in ACR, so Photoshop-only workflows can benefit.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 22, 2022 Sep 22, 2022

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The request (”Please add color profiling to ACR”) exists. For ACR&LR.

Profiles are not magic bullets.

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 22, 2022 Sep 22, 2022

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Useful tool =/= magic bullet. I'm asking for a screwdriver, and you're
trying to tell me that a rock and a nail might be crappy, but they'll just
have to do, never mind those guys using screwdrivers over there.

Why did you bother responding to this if your only goal was to pretend it
won't work? I'm literally linking to an example of a competing company
that has this feature, today, in an adjacent discipline.

Please let the Dev team deal with duplicate requests, if you're just here
to troll. Maybe multiple requests actually makes the feature happen.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 22, 2022 Sep 22, 2022

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LATEST

DCP profiles work in the raw pipeline.

One can create them for use in the ACR engine.
Again: The feature request (”Please add color profiling to ACR”) does exist.

No: multiple requests don't actually makes the feature happen. That's done this way if more than enough users vote and more importantly, the request is sound and properly posted:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop-ecosystem-ideas/how-do-i-write-a-feature-request/idi-p/1238...

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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