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Camera Raw 7 CS6 adjustments slow to operate.

Participant ,
Jul 14, 2012 Jul 14, 2012

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I have updated to Photoshop CS6 and I'm having a problem with camera raw adjustments.

When loading a batch of images into camera raw all is fine then after a few images have been adjusted everything slows down. Adjustment controls take 1-3 seconds to activate when clicked on.

Using MacPro 2.66 Nehalem 8 core, 32GB RAM, OS 10.6.8, ATI Radeon HD 4870

Any suggestions welcomed.

Have tried:

disabling all plug-ins

Launching Camera Raw from Photoshop and Bridge

Closing all other programs

Adjusting Camera Raw Cache(currently 10gb)

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Beginner , Aug 05, 2012 Aug 05, 2012

Hi Adriana,

I get slowdowns in the multiple seconds category, sometimes with as little as one image, but always with 10 or more. For example, load 10 nikon d800 raw files, start going down the line adjusting WB, shadow, highlight, blacks, etc, and by the 3rd image, I guarantee you will be having to wait a second or two before you see your adjustments redraw on the main preview image. After that, I usually use the adjustment brush for simple burning,dodging, mostly of faces, or darkening distracti

...

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LEGEND ,
Jul 14, 2012 Jul 14, 2012

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.

Have you updated the ACR plug-in to version 7.1?

I'm not familiar with your video card.  How much VRAM is there on it?  Just mentioning this in case that is the bottleneck.  I do not know, obviously.

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Participant ,
Jul 14, 2012 Jul 14, 2012

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Yes, it's the latest version.

The card has 512 MB VRAM.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 14, 2012 Jul 14, 2012

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I noticed that in neither of your two threads have you mentioned trashing your Photoshop's preferences, which is normally the very first thing to try.

Hold Down Command+Option+Shift as you launch Photoshop until you see a dialog box allowing you to delete and re-set all your Photoshop's preferences.

One more thing:  Do you have a dedicated, physically separate (preferably internal) hard drive set up as your primary Photoshop scratch disk?  Is it sufficiently large?  Figure on up to 100 times or more the size of your largest file multiplied by the number of files you have open.

Even with 32 GB or 64 GB of installed RAM, Photoshop always creates a scratch disk the instant you open an image file or create a new document.

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Participant ,
Jul 14, 2012 Jul 14, 2012

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Thanks, I'll have a look next week when l'm in the studio.

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Participant ,
Jul 16, 2012 Jul 16, 2012

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Thanks. I have tried deleting photoshop preferences manually as suggested by the Adobe help line. No effect on problem. The scratch disk is 335 GB on the same drive as the operating system and photoshop. Disk is 640gb Hitachi HDE721064SLA360.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 16, 2012 Jul 16, 2012

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tobylong wrote:

…The scratch disk is 335 GB on the same drive as the operating system and photoshop…

The size is good, but the problem with its being on the boot drive is that the Photoshop scratch disk will be constantly competing with the swap files of the OS for the use of the one set of read/write heads of the single drive, slowing you down.  I have no idea how this affects ACR, but it definitely bogs down Photoshop.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 14, 2012 Jul 14, 2012

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I just tested the scenario you described (I have a PC, but with similar compute power) and even when I'm adjusting controls with 50 raw files selected the preview is updated virtually instantaneously.  I even went through all 50 individually and adjusted controls specific to them.  It was fast to the last.  Your hardware should definitely be providing you better performance than what you're seeing.

I have a friend who has told me he has the exact same issue you're reporting (he said "2-3 seconds for control responses" and "worse when working on groups of images"), but with Lightroom on an i7-based PC (Windows 7).  I created a thread some time back about it.  He ended up buying a new high-end video card (switching from nVidia to ATI in the process) and while it the more powerful GPU made a little difference for most everything across the board it specifically did NOT solve this problem.  He said the very latest Lightroom release (just weeks ago) helped a lot, but it still slows down some after a while or under some conditions he can't nail down.  Perhaps this is something Adobe has found and fixed, and we will see it in Camera Raw 7.2.

I have not yet seen a fix or workaround that directly addresses this for the people who are experiencing it.

Some additional questions about things that might be pertinent on your system:

  • Are you using a lot of spot adjustments in the images?
  • Do you have lens corrections enabled by default?
  • What camera do you have, specifically?
  • Are there power-saving (vs. performance) settings on your computer (I'm not familiar with Mac) and if so how are they set?

I think there's a basic problem somewhere in the software that is triggered only under some conditions or on some systems.

Station_two, I take it your control response in Camera Raw is fluid?

-Noel

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 15, 2012 Jul 15, 2012

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I have found the same thing. When processing my d800 files the slowdown becomes so severe that I can no longer use ACR 7.1 and fire up photoshop 5.1 to work. Another thing I notice even with my d3s files, is that processing and saving batches of images is much slower. In PS5.1 I can watch as ACR saves 4 images simultaneously. You can see the processing indicator on 4 images at a time and file saving (I usually process to large JPG for client delivery and reprints of weddings)  Yet with the new ACR, it works on one image at a time while processing and saving and according to my stopwatch, is almost 4x slower to process and save a batch of raw images to jpg than ACR 6.7 (or whatever the last update was with cs5.5)

This is in addition to finding all the slowdowns described above during the adjustment process itself. I can not use this version.

System info, mac pro, 12 core 3.2 gz 32 mb ram 512 gb ssd drive as scratch disc. I usually process 50-80 images at a go and it is a mix of global adjustments and some spot adjustments in ACR. Using 7.1 and quite unhappy with it. The quality is a bit better, but not as a trade for several extra hours of computer time per wedding.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 15, 2012 Jul 15, 2012

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With that powerful a system, it's indeed unfortunate you are seeing performance issues. 

The one thing you might want to try is disabling the intrusive and useless Spotlight.  Above all, make sure it's not trying to index your SSD scratch disk drive and/or your image-file storage drive. 

OFF TOPIC:

Is there an industry-wide standard size (in pixels) at which wedding photographers deliver JPEGs that are represented to clients as being "full resolution JPEGs"?  I'm asking because the pro that covered my daughter's wedding a couple of years ago did a super fantastic job but the large-group-pictures JPEGs are a wee bit too small to be printed.  They're only 1280 by 1920 pixels from a Canon EOS 5D.  There were several thousand shots, and I can see why that shoot would have been tough to handle at a larger resolution. Thanks in advance.

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Participant ,
Jul 16, 2012 Jul 16, 2012

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Several thousand shots seems an awfull lot. I come from the old school of less is usually more. My usual routine is to shoot in RAW and carefully process images into jpeg at the native/full resolution of the camera being used. Just tested the Mk 1 EOS. At full resolution the pixel dimensions are 4368x2912 uncropped. Your images may have been cropped, processed from RAW at a lower reolution or shot at a lower resolution jpeg. The last being the most obvious solution for shooting so many images. Cheers.

How do I disable Spotlight? I've uncheked all boxes in preferences.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 16, 2012 Jul 16, 2012

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tobylong wrote:

…How do I disable Spotlight? I've uncheked all boxes in preferences.

Just make sure that all drives you do not want indexed and searched are so listed in the Privacy Tab of the Spotlight Preferences Panel in System Preferences:

Privacy_tab_Spotlight_PrefPanel.png

tobylong wrote:

Several thousand shots seems an awfull lot…

Yes, indeed.  She and her assistant started shooting the "Getting Ready" sequence in the morning and went on through the ceremony, reception, formal dinner and all-night party until the wee hours of the next morning.  Yes, my guess is also she was shooting low-res JPEGs rather than RAW.  She did a wonderful job of lighting and post-processing, and all but the large groups are super!

Thank you for your off-topic response. 

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Participant ,
Jul 23, 2012 Jul 23, 2012

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Disabling Spotlight had no effect on the slow CS6 Camera Raw adjustment problem. Processing latest wedding with Adobe DNG Converter and Photoshop CS3. Worth a try.

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 16, 2012 Jul 16, 2012

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Thanks, I'll try spotlight. But right after I posted, I went back to toning more raw files, but switched back to PS 5.1 and no problems, so unlikely is scratch disc. I think Adobe has some work to do.

As for wedding, we shoot full day, getting ready to bitter end and it usually works out to around 600 images. Full size file delivers means at the camera native resolution after any cropping. Personally, I would never give jpg's straight out of the camera even as proofs, though they are getting a lot better these days. Some photographers hold back the full size files to make more money on reprints and usually have an option for you to buyout the disc. Maybe try contacting her/him

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LEGEND ,
Jul 16, 2012 Jul 16, 2012

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I just want to stress here that this CANNOT be a simple performance issue.  There's definitely something up when two similar 8 core machines with similar video cards yield performance that differs from 3 seconds to an imperceptible fraction of a second, EVEN IF they're running different OSs.

To summarize:

tahoelight:  Dual quad core Xeon (Nehalem) 2.66 GHz , 32 GB, Radeon HD 4870:  1-3 second control response

Noel Carboni:  Dual quad core Xeon (Harpertown) 3.16 GHz, 16 GB, Radeon HD 5670:  (estimated) 0.1 second control response

Relative performance (higher is better, courtesy Passmark Benchmark😞

Dual Xeon X5550 2.66 GHz:    10,727

Dual Xeon X5460 3.16 GHz:      9,583

Radeon 4870:  1,737

Radeon 5670:  1,234

Clearly the more powerful machine should not be 1/10 to 1/30 as fast to interact with the user!

Adobe has said the GPU doesn't play into Camera Raw performance, so what's up here?

Adobe seems to be a bit silent across the various forums lately.  I hope they haven't been instructed to avoid participating...  That would be a shame, as it's one thing Adobe has been doing right.

FYI, station_two will be happy to know I've disabled Windows' equivalent of spotblight (indexing).  Some concepts are universally good. 

-Noel

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 19, 2012 Jul 19, 2012

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Just to clarify, I'm on a 2010 dual 6 core Xeon 2.66 ghz, 32GB Ram, ATI Radeon HD 5870 card.The last wedding I shot was with my d3s's, I left the D800 at home and working with photoshop 5.1 and ACR 6.7 I still have no delays in adjustments and redraws of previews compared to acr 7.1 AND ACR6.7 saves over twice as fast to my ssd drive. Both versions use the SSD drive for scratch also and have the same memory allotment (80%)

In short, I have photoshop 6, but unless I want to waste extra HOURS per wedding I can not use it. It sits useless on my computer while I work in cs5.1  I have 5 other machines that are NOT going to be upgraded until Adobe gets on this.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 20, 2012 Jul 20, 2012

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Noel Carboni wrote:

Adobe seems to be a bit silent across the various forums lately.  I hope they haven't been instructed to avoid participating...  That would be a shame, as it's one thing Adobe has been doing right.

They (I'm assuming you mean Eric) haven't been active on the forums because some of the engineers are taking time off while planning for the future. After a major release (LR4 & ACR 4) there's a serious lack of energy and spending a lot of time on the forums isn't how you get your juices back flowing...

As regarding performance problems, it really, REALLY depends on what you are doing and how you've done it. There are lots of image adjustments that are processor intensive and when added together are likely to compound performance issues. Lot's of little isolated things can add up to painfully slow working...I've seen it at times. Lens Corrections plus high noise reduction plus multiple adjustment brush pins plus Grain (reducing noise and adding grain can be a real slowdown when previewing and zooming). If you decide to show the brush mask expect another performance hit.

Add this on top of PV 2012 which is much more CPU intensive than PV 2010 and things multiply...sometimes geometrically.

So, either the engineers need to speed up the pipeline or we need to wait for new, even faster CPUs...both will take some time...

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Participant ,
Jul 20, 2012 Jul 20, 2012

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Having the same problem on a Windows 7 x64 quadcore machine running Bridge/Camera Raw CS6. CS5 runs fine. I notice it most on an 18MP image (DNG format) when I paint a large Adjustment Brush area -- any new strokes peaks all the CPUs to 100% and hangs the system until the screen refreshes (4-5 seconds each). Oh well. I've learned not to buy any Adobe products until at least the first patches are released.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 23, 2012 Jul 23, 2012

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Jeff Schewe wrote:

So, either the engineers need to speed up the pipeline or we need to wait for new, even faster CPUs...both will take some time...

Jeff, your comment seems inapplicable to the specific problem being discussed here.  It's been clearly shown that a faster system is delivering a 10x slower user interface experience.  This is beyond just a performance issue.  That's obvious even to a casual obsever.

For those of you having the problem, please describe exactly what you see when you open a fresh image (without prior settings), what your default settings are, and what response times you're seeing from which specific controls.  Ideally, post a raw image and the XMP that goes with it (as saved by your copy of Camera Raw), then others can try to reproduce the problem using the same operations you're using, and you'll have direct comparison info.

Those experiencing the problem need to make it clearly known that the problem is more than just an annoyance, because people may try to downplay it, but rather it is a serious issue (several seconds to see a screen update absolutely isn't acceptable, when it's been shown it can happen in a tiny fraction of a second). 

Someone at Adobe who knows what they're doing needs to take this seriously.

-Noel

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LEGEND ,
Jul 23, 2012 Jul 23, 2012

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Nicely put Noel .

Hopefully Adobe is listening even if not talking...

Rob

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LEGEND ,
Jul 24, 2012 Jul 24, 2012

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Noel Carboni wrote:

Jeff, your comment seems inapplicable to the specific problem being discussed here.

I guess you missed the part about the difficulty in determining EXACTLY why some people are seeing slowdowns and other are not?

Lately I've noticed a real slow down when turning on the Adjustment Brush mask preview and trying to work...painfully slow (and I've pinged Eric about it).

If there was a repeatable use case where the engineers could say, if you do this then things turn to crap I suspect they would work hard to fix it in a dot release...the problem is that as far as I know there's no reliable method of determining exactly what series of steps results in serious slowdowns. Can you shed light? If not then you are just adding to the chaos and not resolving any issues...let us know when you have any definitive answers...otherwise you're taking a stab in the dark like the rest of us.

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Adobe Employee ,
Jul 24, 2012 Jul 24, 2012

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If you can describe exactly what adjustments were made both local and global and also if you could submit files with xmps attached, (as Jeff mentioned), it would be very helpful to us. Including the OS spec is also useful. You are welcome to send me files via dropbox, my email is : aohlmeye@adobe.com. Thanks!

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 24, 2012 Jul 24, 2012

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Adriana,

Thanks for joining in here. In my case I usually shoot weddings. Sort a take by camera model, then start toning in groups of 30-80 images depending on whether they are in similar lighting situations. If I have an outdoor ceremony and 30 family photos all on the same body, usually nikon d3s, I may tone 80 similar images at once in camera raw. But not always. Most of my adjustments are global. Pulling in highlights, shadows, color tweaking, contrast. Very few require spot or local adjustments, but when they do, I start to notice the redraw slows down and I begin to have to wait a few seconds between adjustments. This wait will get longer the more photos I have to tone.  Also, after 10-15 images, even making global adjustments, such as blacks, whites, shadows, will start to make me wait up to a couple of seconds before I see the redraw and can move on to the next adjustment.

Finally, on saving the images, I notice ACR7.1 saves literally 1/2 as fast. I have timed this. IF I make NO adjustments and save 30 raw .NEF files with ACR7.1 it will take 2x longer than ACR 6.7.

Finally, on everything I said above, none of this happens in ACR 6.7  No lag in redraw, no pause between operations and faster save. I am on 2010 MacPro, 32GB RAM SSD drives dual 6 core 2.66GHZ processors and ATI Radeon 5870 graphics card with 1gb dedicated graphics ram.   I do think the quality of ACR7.1 is better. BUT camera sensor resolutions are growing, and ACR is slowing. I have 2 d800's (36Mp sensor) that I can not use for weddings unless I want to outsource my processing because it takes days.  I would be perfectly happy if your next iteration of ACR had NO improvements in quality whatesoever. It is already pretty good, but if you can double the speed it works out, you would save me hundreds of $ in computer time per job!

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Adobe Employee ,
Jul 24, 2012 Jul 24, 2012

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Thank you for the detailed response. I will talk to Eric and we will investigate. -adriana

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Explorer ,
Aug 01, 2012 Aug 01, 2012

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Hi Adriana

I'm Expericing the same problems, CR7 is extremly slow and lags on my iMac Quad i7 with 16GB RAM and with a SSD. Just changing the temperature of a CR2 or Tiff makes Bridge lag with about 4-5 seconds.

This must be a software related issue, because if I choose to revert from the 2012 Raw Engine profile to 2010 Raw Engine Profile, everything suddenly runs smoothly within the Camera Raw Editing tools.

I seriously hope Adobe has this on top priority and will focus on fixing this ASAP, since CR7 is basicily useless with it's current horrible slow speed....

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