+ Camera Raw Feature Requests +

[Ian Lyons]

UPDATE:

We're interested in what changes you would like see in our products. Do you have an idea for a feature that would help your workflow? Is there a small change that could be made to make your life a little easier? Let us know!  Share an Idea, Ask a Question or Report a Problem and get feedback from the Product Development Team and other passionate users on the Photoshop Family product Feedback Site on Photoshop.com.

In future it would helpful if you could use this thread as a means to add

"Features" that you would like to see in future releases of Adobe Camera Raw.

Please do NOT create additional new Topics and try not to duplicate requests by other users. Also, be thorough in your description of the feature and why you think Adobe should consider it.

Oh, and if you find it necessary to comment on someone's feature request/suggestion, try not to get into a shouting match. The penalty for doing so is...

b If you're asking that a particular camera is supported in a future release or just taking the opportunity to carp that yours isn't then please do so in another thread!

IanLyons

Forum Host

[_nunatak_]

Barry ...
>I've been wondering whether to photograph my slides and negatives in raw (at least sometimes) because of the time it takes to scan them in.

flat bed scanners are specifically designed to reproduce flat objects with very little distortion and film scanners offer very high resolution with extended dynamic range. ultimately these devices are best.

however, if you're looking for "good enough", it is possible to photograph your film.
suggested methodology:

1. take care to ensure the that film is parallel to the focal plane.
2. use a lens that will minimize abberations or distortions of any kind.
3. use a secure stabilizing device such as a tripod.

you might also consider an old slide copier attachment -either extension tubes or bellows attachment. ultimately, you're the final arbitrator of quality and if you're satisfied with the resolution, sharpness, and any abberations introduced along the way then it becomes an entirely subjective process but technically viable. :-)

regarding color casts, Ian has been one of the early web pioneers publishing sound scanning techniques--and a must read. i highly recommend visiting any of his pages.

Shangara ... What a simple but brilliant suggestion!

[Mathias_DK_]

Ian,

I meant avoided at the scanning stage (ahem).

[_nunatak_]

>It would be great if the lens manufacturers would provide this information.

it certainly would. but I expect a public database of lens attributes to be collected and published before camera and lens manufacturers go out of their way to advertise some of their less than ideal qualities. ideally, for the photographer, your RAW editor would relay any XML data to a web site that looks up and verifies information about that specific lens. it may be information relating to known abberations, distortions, sharpness, age, and vignetting. the raw editor would then automatically fill in the blanks just like music CD's are catalogued on your computer.

the technology to do this cost-effectively has come out of the lab. there may be hope for the future ... :-)

>I am currently building a list of vignetting amount and midpoint values for various apertures and focal lengths for my lenses.

that's kewl. incidentally, this may differ for each camera model the lens is applied to --which would make it at least a 3D array, and possibly each lens revision --which would make it 4D.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

If you have vignetting to that extent, get a decent lens. :D

[DrewF]

If you think none of your lenses exhibit vignetting, try the following:
1) Attach any of your lenses to a camera with a full frame sensor or a film body
2) Shoot the sky wide open and at the shortest focal length
3) Look at the image to see if there is any darkness in the corners that is inconsistent with the rest of the image
Most reviews in Popular Photography include a sentence such as:
"Light falloff left the corners by f/3.3." Since film bodies are becoming more rare, it only makes sense to include a tool that automatically corrects for this problem when the RAW image is processed on a computer.
The technology exists to make images better by correcting for vignetting. Why not take advantage of it?

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

>If you think none of your lenses exhibit vignetting,

That is not the case. I have one that does (out of some three dozen lenses). [It happens to be a zoom lens and I don't like zoom lenses anyway.]

>Most reviews in Popular Photography include a sentence such as:

Why should I care about PP? Give me a break.

As for your suggested "test", I've been making photographs for over half a century now. I know what vignetting is.

[_Barry_Clive_Pearson_]

nunatak, thanks for that. I've decided to scan them in anyway, because I have a good scanner, and would need to buy or make a slide copier otherwise. I think I can tolerate the time it takes.

(I used to have a good slide copier with double bellows on girder-like base and macro lens - but it went when my house was broken into!)

[SimonTindemans]

Let me slip in one more comment about negative inversion. The best tool I have encountered for this purpose is the Photoshop plug-in NegPos, written by David Dunthorn. You can find the plug-in, and a description of the underlying math, at http://www.c-f-systems.com/Plug-ins.html

Basically, the need for the plug-in comes from the fact that for negative inversion you need to perform an operation of the form "out = 1/in", whereas the Photoshop 'invert' command does "out = 1 - in". (in & out are normalized to 0..1). Quite a difference indeed, also in the results.

Regards,
Simon

[Chris Cox]

No, inverting photographic negatives is not 1/n.

Inverting/printing a negative involves several steps: removing the base color, removing the transfer curves for the negative film, inverting, then adapting to the final color space.
(amazing how they get all of that into the chemistry for paper, eh)

[Chris Cox]

The paper on the site you quoted has a good approximation of the math involved - but you left out the "gamma" factors (which approximate the transfer curves).

[Chris Cox]

Also, the author of that site has a bit of confusion over gamma encoding and how some of the adjustments work in Photoshop (I wish he's just ASK).

[SimonTindemans]

I think I need to clarify myself. I know that the full operation (inversion, mask, transfer curves) can be described by
out_ch = M_ch * (1/in_ch)^G_ch
for each channel 'ch' (RGB). Afterwards, the result needs to be transformed to an output space. (Note: this does not address the top/bottom of the curve)

The fundamental problem in Photoshop is that a division cannot be performed in any easy way. However, the multiplication and power law (with a positive exponent) are fairly easy to do. It's for this reason that I only mentioned that "an operation of the form 1/n" cannot be performed.

> Also, the author of that site has a bit of confusion over gamma encoding and how some of the adjustments work in Photoshop (I wish he's just ASK).

Care to explain? Although maybe that should go into a separate thread...

[_ecwyatt_]

Could it be possible to have a convert to Color mode I know right know you can convert to:
Adobe RGB
Color Match RGB
ProPhoto RGB
sRGB IEC61966-1

But what about LAB I actually find I am using this color mode more and more. It would be nice to edit it in Camera Raw before sending to Photoshop.

Just my 2 cents

[_Jeff_Schewe_]

Since the interal color space of Camera Raw is ProPhoto RGB chromatisities, you wouldn't get anything by converting into Lab from Camera Raw that you can't get from going from PPRGB to Lab in Photoshop.

[_Steven_Noreyko_]

Feature Requests:

1) Key commands for "Cancel" , "Open" and "Save" in the Camera Raw window.

Currently you have to physically click on the Open or Cancel buttons (at least in the MacOS version). It would be MUCH more efficient to be able to use Command-. to cancel the ACR dialog, or Command-O (or shift/option command-o) to Open, etc..

2) Configuurability of the ACR window - i.e. the ability to MOVE the filmstrip (when viewing multiple files) to the right side of the window - which is closer to the ACR controls.

3) Key Commands to switch between the Adjust/Detail/Lens/Curves tabs in the controls

4) Be able to assign a Key Command to a Camera Raw settings file (from the settings pull down)

Thanks!

-steve

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

Steven
>Currently you have to physically click on the Open or Cancel buttons (at least in the MacOS version). It would be MUCH more efficient to be able to use Command-. to cancel the ACR dialog, or Command-O (or shift/option command-o) to Open, etc.

Your setup is screwed up. Enter (for Done), Command S and Command O are working just fine on my Mac.

[_Steven_Noreyko_]

OK - Since Command-. did not work for Cancel, I assumed that Open/Save did not work. My mistake.

However - I still really want a keyboard command for Cancel. (i.e. Command Period)

-steve

[Thomas Knoll]

"However - I still really want a keyboard command for Cancel."

Try ESC

[_Steven_Noreyko_]

Thomas,

Thanks for the "ESC" tip.

FWIW - I'm on MacOS and nearly every dialog box with a cancel button lets you use Command-. to cancel. I thought it was a standard thing (i.e. part of the Apple Human Interface Guidelines).

I'm still sticking by this request for Command-. to cancel. As well as the other request for more key command options.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

Steve,

You really need to explore the program and make use of the the fine manual and the help files. You'll get much more out of Photoshop that way.

[_Steven_Noreyko_]

Ramon,

I've actually been using Photoshop since version 1.0 and I get quite a lot out of the application every day. :)

FWIW - in the CS2 help files, the Camera Raw keys chart does not include the mention of ESC canceling the dialog. (Or Command-S to Save for that matter). The CS2 printed manual does not cover the various obscure Keyboard Commands for Camera Raw (like using Command right/left arrow to move between multiple open camera raw files in the camera raw filmstrip).

So... I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the Documentation is lacking in this area. :)

There is a downloadable Keyboard Shortcuts for Bridge/CameraRaw document I found on the Ian Lyons site http://www.computer-darkroom.com. This document also misses that ESC can be used to cancel the Camera Raw dialog.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

>I thought it was a standard thing (i.e. part of the Apple Human Interface Guidelines).

Applies to Command S, Command O and ESC

That's what I meant by exploring the program.

[Thomas Knoll]

Command-. is already used as a shortcut from increasing the rating of the seletect image when Camera Raw is in filmstrip mode. This shortcut matches Bridge.

I suggest that you learn to use the escape key.

[_Steven_Noreyko_]

Thomas,

Thanks for pointing out that Command-. has the same behaviour in Camera Raw as it does in Bridge. Again - this is not specifically documented for Camera Raw.

However - Command-. is a VERY poor choice of key commands for the increase/decrease rating task, as it is already commonly used in the MacOS to Cancel a dialog or operation.

In doing some quick research - here' some info from the Apple Human Interface Guidelines:

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGWindows/chapter_17_section_6.html

"Always map the keyboard shortcut Command-period and the Esc (Escape) key to the Cancel button. These keyboard equivalents, along with Return and Enter, are accelerator keys and serve the purpose of letting the user respond quickly to a dialog or an alert."

[_nunatak_]

Hmmm ... an allegience to Apple Interface Guidelines or consistancy with another ADOBE application? Guidelines vs. your Band o'brothers ... hmmm. ;-)

In fairness to Thomas Knoll, Apple has previously ditched their own guidelines when it suited their purpose.