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Cannot update Camera Raw from 6.7 to 7.1

New Here ,
May 30, 2012 May 30, 2012

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When I try to update Camera Raw from 6.7 to 7.1, from the 7.1 setup file I downloaded, I get the error:

"Update failed

Updates could not be applied

This patch is not applicable for you. Please check for updates from the help menu in your product to see a list of latest updates available."

If I go to help in Photoshop CS5 and click on updates, it says that all of my programs are up to date, but Camera Raw is still 6.7. It absolutely refuses to update to 7.1

I just traded in my Nikon D3100 for a Nikon D3200 and 6.7 does not support it, but 7.1 does, so I REALLY need it to upgrade because I like to shoot in RAW.

Please help????

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Enthusiast ,
Aug 19, 2012 Aug 19, 2012

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> Blame Canon on the delays

really ? Adobe has already all the necessary details to work with T4i raw files (ACR v7.1.0.354 opens them just fine) - they (Adobe) just did not update DNG converter for whatever reason and you are suggesting to blame Canon for that delay w/ DNG converter update ?

PS: and T4i (at least non compressed raw files) actually seems to be supported by DNG converter 7.1.0.354 - so even that is not an issue...

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New Here ,
Aug 19, 2012 Aug 19, 2012

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+1 Adobe already have the current, RAW file format especification, Cannon 5D mark III, canon 1DX are supported in Camera RAW 6.7 And Canon T4i is supported in 7.1 version.

I am not going to blame Canon, I am not going to blame Adoble, I am going to blame all the adobe customers using Cs5.5 or OLDER versions, including me for renew our cameras.

Common.

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Enthusiast ,
Aug 19, 2012 Aug 19, 2012

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> I am not going to blame Adobe

I wish they were selling ACR for the price of LR or little less...  myth about SDK (see Schewe) is not exactly true - everybody heard that ACR 7 from leaked/stolen prerelease was working with CS5.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 19, 2012 Aug 19, 2012

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deejjjaaaa wrote:

myth about SDK (see Schewe) is not exactly true - everybody heard that ACR 7 from leaked/stolen prerelease was working with CS5.

"working" is not the same as full backwards compatibility testing on each platform and OS versions that CS5/5.5 worked on...could Adobe make ACR 7.x work on CS5? Prolly for many/most platforms and OSs, but it would be a lot of work to do so–work that would take the engineers away from fixing bugs and adding new cameras to the current customers running CS6 with ACR 7.x.

The technical limitations of backwards compatibilities and cross-SDK support issues are not a myth. If you knew anything about developing plug-ins for Photoshop you would know better.

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Enthusiast ,
Aug 19, 2012 Aug 19, 2012

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> "working" is not the same as full backwards compatibility testing on each platform and OS versions that CS5/5.5 worked

Jeff, the simple explanation is that during compilation the piece of code that checks how ACR is invoked is either compiled in or not using compile time preprocessor flags

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LEGEND ,
Aug 19, 2012 Aug 19, 2012

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Regardless of the flags, the fact is that backwards compatibility testing and offering official "support" is different than the plug-in "maybe working" in CS5...for example there is no longer a 32-bit version of Photoshop CS6 for Mac. Bridge is now also 64-bit. So, Mac Camera Raw 7.x is a 64-bit only binary. Are you suggesting that letting ACR 7 work in the CS5 32-bit Mac binary is a simple recompile?

Face it, the Adobe policy is based upon technical issues of backwards compatibility as well as not giving away new features and functions for nothing. Could ACR 6.x keep getting new cameras added? Yes, but then it's a branch in the code that substantially complicates the development. The policy of only offering free updates to currently shipping software is a pretty long standing policy since the begining of Camera Raw in Photoshop 7 in 2003–almost a decade.

And again the root cause of the problem users of older software buying new cameras and not getting support could be resolved by the camera makers adopting a standard like DNG. And again Adobe offers a free (as in no cost but downloading) DNG Converter solution for people with new cameras an old software. It's either that or upgrade to the most recent version of Photoshop.

Let's see, photographhers are happy to spend money on new cameras but hate spending money on software upgrades...do you not see the disconnect there? Penny wise, pound foolish.

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New Here ,
Aug 20, 2012 Aug 20, 2012

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"photographhers are happy to spend money on new cameras but hate spending money on software upgrades" That is not the point.

Suppose I am not a photographer I am an enthusiastic graphic designer NOT A PRO.

I was so excited about CS6 features and decided the today to buy CS6 Production Premium for 1,899 USD.

My computer is ok and meets all the requirements, but this December for holidays I decide give me a huge present a supercomputer, in order to enjoy more my Adobe products.

I unpacked, installed, patched etc, and now I am ready to install my adobe products, but surprise Adobe products don’t install because the only operating system supported was the previous one and not only that, my new processors are not supported either.

Adobe decides to support my new software and my new hardware in the new CS7 (just for 400 USD more), because my obsolete and OLD software CS6 is not supported more. Just few months after, how do you feel happy?

Worts, if you dont want to upgrade and pay them because they force you,  then you cannot use your CS6 software with your new hardware at all, the other option is a workarround with a converter working in you old platform and you lose the capabilities of you hw.

It is not a money issue it is a support issue.

What do you think if similar situation happens with your car, your operating system, etc. I think 5 years should be the cycle life of a product at least.

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Mentor ,
Aug 20, 2012 Aug 20, 2012

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I wondered if it was possible to separate the raw file decoding process from the raw conversion process. I suppose the nearest comparison would be an audio or video codec. The raw converter (the thing you see/use) calls the codec in order to open the raw files. Only the codec would need to be updated.

Without knowing anything about raw formats or the way Adobe software is written, I can only guess if this can be done. But, in principle, I don't see why not. Of course, this would have to be a new thing, and so it wouldn't help anyone with existing software.

Meanwhile, people have got the DNG Converter, which is free, and is updated just as often as Camera Raw. It converts your mysterious proprietary raw files into something which can be read by any raw converter which supports the well-established DNG standard, including Photoshop CS (with ACR 2.3–2.4), CS2, CS3, CS4 and CS5. It's what our cameras should be providing in the first place.

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New Here ,
Aug 19, 2012 Aug 19, 2012

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Good idea, Adobe camera Raw is as good as other adobe products, just convert  the plugin to a Product. But again, it is used to sell the elements and photoshop upgrade. They will never do it.

It is used to force people shouting RAW to upgrade.

Personally I bought CS5.5 because that plugin, I consider myself more a photographer hobbyist than a graphic edito,mbut I really like that plugin.

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Explorer ,
Aug 19, 2012 Aug 19, 2012

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No, the stand alone did not see the files, trust me.

There is software that comes with the camera that could have done this, image processing software.  But personally, I do feel that Canon and Nikon are the two biggest, and I'm sure Adobe gets every new camera that comes out, from the manufacturer, so that the users can work with the cameras and Adobe products.  I do also feel that Adobe should support CS5 for a while longer until they had something really new to offer in CS6.  I haven't seen anything that worthy of an upgrade.

Another reason why I hesitated on CS6 is that I'm not sure how Windows 8 is going to be.  Who knows how many errors that will cause in and of itself?  I would rather have installed Windows 8, completed all the trouble-shooting, all of the snags, before installing CS6.

Now, who knows how many image restores will have to happen?  The timing isn't good.

Indy

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Enthusiast ,
Aug 19, 2012 Aug 19, 2012

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> No, the stand alone did not see the files, trust me.

may be it did not see it but it converted T4i raw file w/o problem when the raw file was passed as a parameter by XnView

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Explorer ,
Aug 20, 2012 Aug 20, 2012

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The standalone literally did not see the files.  Mind you, I tried it on both the T7400 and the W701.  The converter asks you for source files and you browse to it, naturally, and it sees the folder, you open the folder and nada within.

The recurring retort seems to be "well, you bought a new camera so you shouldn't complain about the software"...please understand that these camera makers do supply a CD with software that will handle the files.  I must have at least 15 cameras, and if I were to use the CD for each and every one of them, my computers would be so jammed up with software I don't really want..  My initial confusion is that I never encountered a camera raw format that Adobe couldn't handle before.  THAT was the confusion.  And, I had initially bought CS5.1 Extended, and then went ahead and bought the whole CS5 Production Premium, and this is after using Photoshop since Photoshop 4, and I am not talking CS4, I'm talking about every upgrade since Photoshop 4.

As computers and processors progressed, so did I.  But we all know what a big bother it is to uninstall any of Adobe products.  You simply do not get out all the files without a really good removal tool and then you have to sit there and carefully pick through the registry entries.  Adobe is not the only one, of course.

Yesterday I uninstalled previous versions after installing CS6 Extended on the laptop.   What do you know?  All of a sudden the camera raw 7.1 patch application wasn't there.  I had to do it again.  I cannot recall at this point whether it was before or after I started putting the plug-ins back in.

Someone said they had no problem with the T4i file on the standalone converter. There is a possibility the problem lies in some configuration that is present in both of my main machines.  But I'm thinking it is more likely that since that person (I'd have to find the post) already had CS6 installed before trying the DNG standalone with that file, the results do not equal comparing apples to apples.

I wouldn't panic about buying a new camera though.  As long as the camera-maker provides software that covers their new file (and they all do) you will still be able to convert  the file from the new camera to use whatever version of Photoshop you have.  That is just not the route I wanted to take.

Some of my cameras are Nikons, some are Canon, some are Pentax, some are Sony, and I even have an Olympus thrown in there.  No way I want all of those extra programs on my machines!!!  LOL!

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LEGEND ,
Aug 20, 2012 Aug 20, 2012

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IndyMcDuff wrote:

The standalone literally did not see the files.  Mind you, I tried it on both the T7400 and the W701.  The converter asks you for source files and you browse to it, naturally, and it sees the folder, you open the folder and nada within…

That may be your problem right there! 

Don't open the folder, just point the DNG Converter to it.  The stand-alone DNG Converter works on folders, not on  individual files.

Point it to a folder and it will convert all eligible files within it.  Be advised that it will convert truly every eligible raw file in the folder containing raw data.  That means that if you happen to have DNG files from a previous sessions, the DNG Converter will re-convert those and overwrite the files when it creates new DNGs so you will lose any adjustments you were keeping in metadata in those particular DNGs.

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Explorer ,
Aug 20, 2012 Aug 20, 2012

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That is an excellent point.  But now I cannot test it as I have already installed CS6 Extended!!!!  I kept to the legal number of installations, so it isn't on any other machine. 

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LEGEND ,
Aug 20, 2012 Aug 20, 2012

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IndyMcDuff wrote:

That is an excellent point.  But now I cannot test it as I have already installed CS6 Extended!!!!…

So what?   ???

Sorry, I'm not following you.    The DNG Converter 7.1 will still work the same whether you have Photoshop installed or not.

   ???  

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Explorer ,
Aug 20, 2012 Aug 20, 2012

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Okay, I will test that as well.  As I've said, it could be a configuration issue.  I'll check it all out.

As for the Canon software that came with it:  It sees the image instantly, comes with rudimentary editing...and I am now beginning to see why Canon and Nikon are not so eager to provide these things to Adobe.

Instead of blaming anyone for anything, take note of what I'm writing:

It seems that Canon wants you to join a sort of "cloud" thing.  I didn't join, I do not know if fees are involved, but it would be fair to guess there are fees...even Adobe now dangles carrots for you to pay monthly instead of buying the software....so the Canon software lets you batch-convert to jpeg, and/or TIFF 8 bit or 16 bit, but no DNG.  We all know that TIFF 16 bit are large files but as close to RAW as you can get.  When the files are done converting (there are 65 of them...and I let it do all 65 just to get a time idea as the Hewlett Packard is rather a standard machine) and then bring the converted files into Adobe.  I was able to install CS5 Extended onto that machine as I had disabled it here.  Of course, using the Adobe standalone would be far preferable than going TIFF...but the reason I am testing is because I elected to keep the embedded files.

One seriously has to wonder, if it isn't to get you to pay monthly for a cloud site, why DNG is not in that batch conversion menu.  Is this the way the suits are planning to corner the camera users?!?!  There are SO many people shooting today with so little knowledge of any of this stuff, that they might just go ahead and sign up with the camera maker cloud thingy.

I'm glancing behind me every few seconds and the TIFF images are showing up just fine in Bridge.  When it is through, I will install 7.1 standalone on that computer and test the conversion using the folder....

At least it is a good reference for anyone facing similar issues.

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Explorer ,
Aug 20, 2012 Aug 20, 2012

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My point was that I wanted to see if my configuration with CS5.5 was fouling the standalone.  But I ***much to my annoyance*** did not even think of selecting the folder.  Why?  As it was a brand new camera...I fiddled with some of the slick little options they put in, which created some jpegs within the subfolders on the card.  Selecting the entire folder (or subfolder) without choosing files just did not occur to me.  Dumb.  In my defense I can say I am a real blonde 

The conversion to TIFF went smoothly and opened in Bridge Cs5.5 (or is it CS5.1 - gets confusing)  without an issue even with files embedded (needed to check that option).

I then proceeded to download 7.1 standalone again, on the Hewlett Packard and chose the folder instead of looking for files.  I selected the option to embed the original RAW file.  That may seem dumb to non-professional photographers, but it isn't.  It makes for giant DNG files, but may become necessary for legal and copyright reasons. 

The conversion, using the standalone and embedding the original RAW file...on the Hewlett Packard...for the T4i....went extremely fast, all 65 files, and opened in Bridge without a problem.  So the entire reason it didn't work before was that I had not pointed to the folder.

It may be an extra step, but it doesn't take much time.  I am surprised at myself for not having tried the folder approach instead of individual files.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but in the rapidly changing smaller device arena, a lot of manufacturers seem to be all using the mini port adapter now, and more and more I am finding that it is no longer necessary to label the USB cords that come with devices (Blackberry, Samsung Droid, cameras, GPS devices, etc.,).  In past years, if you traveled and had several small devices, you needed an extra bag just for adapters and USB cords.  Not so today.  Today, other than the Apple stuff, one cord just about covers all of those items.  I cannot see why, other than getting you to pay monthly, the camera makers do not all just go with DNG as an option in the menu and bingo you are done.

The bottom line is that the standalone 7.1 DOES work with T4i's new .CR2, and you have to point to the subfolder that contains the raw images rather than look for files to make it work.

And, Station Two, remember I said configuration problem?  That is why I wanted to test it under the same conditions.  A stand-alone is a stand-alone...that is why I had to see if it were MY particular configuration.

I do thank all of you very wonderful people for your help.  Talking to one's self is pointless because sometimes we build mental roadblocks.  Chewing things over with like-minded people is always a huge plus.  So thanks for tweaking this old brain!  Blonde or not! 

Indy

Message was edited by: IndyMcDuff (noticed an improper punctuation).. 😉

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LEGEND ,
Aug 20, 2012 Aug 20, 2012

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Don't feel bad.  That business where the dialog lets you select the folder but not the files (and does not actually show you the files) has caught a lot of folks off guard.

-Noel

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Enthusiast ,
Aug 19, 2012 Aug 19, 2012

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> It appears T4i support is not yet in the DNG Converter 7.1.

I downloaded a raw file from http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-t4i/T4IFAR2I0100.CR2.HTM - both ACR 7.1.0.354 and DNG Converter 7.1.0.354 have no issues working w/ that... so Noel, you need to check your version of DNG Converter !

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LEGEND ,
Aug 19, 2012 Aug 19, 2012

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deejjjaaaa wrote:

> It appears T4i support is not yet in the DNG Converter 7.1.

I downloaded a raw file from http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-t4i/T4IFAR2I0100.CR2.HTM - both ACR 7.1.0.354 and DNG Converter 7.1.0.354 have no issues working w/ that... so Noel, you need to check your version of DNG Converter !

I did not test it.  I just looked in the release notes for DNG Converter 7.1 (in which the T4i does not show), and assumed that Indy was confirming that it was not working.

Some of you folks sure have an awful lot of attitude toward the people who work hard to bring you support for new cameras after the release of their products without any help from the camera maker.

-Noel

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Explorer ,
Aug 19, 2012 Aug 19, 2012

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I downloaded the latest version.  I am a retired professional photographer and a current computer consultant.   So you are basically telling me things I've known for a very long time.  The money issue is not the big issue.  It is the time needed to completely make CS6 work with my additional software.  It is also a matter of not wanting to clutter up the rather small (as a lot of SSD drives are) C drive on the laptop...and all of these installations create clutter as you well know.  Unless you use something such as REVO to uninstall, there are fragments everywhere.  As a result, I'm going to have to install it all on the larger D drive, which is also infuriating as this machine was built for speed with an SSD drive, dual quad cores, 16gb ram...and being forced to upgrade isn't making me happy at this point!

Now, I've downloaded the trial, although I intend to buy, but I just wanted to check out the T4i information.  The T4i is just one of many, many cameras.  As I've said, I've had Photoshop since PS4, not CS4...it is more a matter of having to now re-do Nik software, On-One software, Topaz software, all to work with CS6.  I used the Adobe Application Manager and it automatically did CS6 64 bit, but now I have to see if they have extended, because I have CS5 Extended.

Then, I have two main computers that I use...A Dell T7400 and an IBM W701,  So I will be at least two days doing all of this, including fonts, brushes, actions that I have made or saved.  This is why I wasn't so eager to upgrade.  After I downloaded the trial, I had to download and install the 7.1 Camera Raw patch, and then finally I could open the files.

Indy

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LEGEND ,
Aug 19, 2012 Aug 19, 2012

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If money is not an object, and you're looking to get the best possible performance out of SSD storage, may I suggest doing what I did on my Precision T5400 - create a big 2 TB C: drive out of an array of SSDs.  I can provide you specifics to create a rock solid and incredibly fast setup if you'd like.  Everything is instantaneous, and Photoshop CS6 works great.

With 1.8 gigabytes/second sustained disk throughput and near zero latency I can hardly notice when Photoshop accesses its scratch file.

Trying to use SSD storage any other way (e.g., on the cheap) is simply paddling upstream.  You might be able to get there, but you don't get all the benefits you could and you do get ongoing problems.

-Noel

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Explorer ,
Aug 19, 2012 Aug 19, 2012

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I'm replying this way as the forum website isn't responding for me at the

moment.

The SSD is on a Lenovo W701, specifically for images.so an array on that

would not be practical. Sometimes I need to edit on location. I'm retired

as a pro but still do some work, stuff I want to do as opposed to massive

contracts.

The lighter I can travel, and the more speed I can have, the better. I take

along 2 Iomega 2 TB USB3 eGo's. Or at least I think they are 2 TB, I have

quite a few so I get a little confused here and there. Images are

immediately backed up that way.

Right now I am installing the purchased upgrade from CS5.1 Extended 64B to

the CS6 Extended on the Precision 4700 (it has 4 1 TB onboard) and about 8 2

TB peripherals for storage and backup.

This is not as fast as the laptop simply because there is a great deal of

software on it. However, when I am at home, I'm not in a rush. It will be

a bother putting all those plug-ins back.plus all the brushes and whatnot.

It IS a bother I didn't want to have to handle at this point in time.

Indy

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Explorer ,
Aug 20, 2012 Aug 20, 2012

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Noel,

My Precision T7400 doesn't have SSD, it is the Lenovo (IBM) W701 that has the SSD C drive.  That is a laptop.  Actually, it is a laptop designed for photographers, in my mind, as it has a lovely little Wacom tablet built right in.  The Precision T7400 has (4) 1.5 TB HD's installed onboard as 1.5TB is all Windows 7 can handle.  These HD's are all backed up to Fantom externals.

Just for the heck of it, when I get the chance, I'm going to install the software that came with the T4i onto a Sony Vaio laptop that does not have any of the Adobe products installed.  I will look at the software and see exactly what conversion utilities there are.  Easy enough to move the converted file to one of the machines that have Adobe on it.

If it has this ability, I will report it, so that people don't get thier knickers in a twist  when thinking about purchasing a new camera....and then mentally adding the cost of the upgraded Photoshop to the price of that camera.

Or you know what?  I'm going to just stick it onto the Hewlett Packard tower that sits behind me....that is easier.

I'll report back.

Indy

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LEGEND ,
Aug 20, 2012 Aug 20, 2012

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Alternatively, you can drop individual files on a shortcut of the DNG Converter on your desktop (or any other convenient directory).

But if you're inside the DNG Converter, then just point it to the folder containing the raw files.

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