Preview Button!!!!

New Here ,
Apr 11, 2014

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Hello, I am incredibly upset about the removal of the preview button in Camera Raw. It has completely interrupted my workflow. I don't mind the ADDITION of new features for those who make take advantage of them, but the REMOVAL of perfectly good features that many of us are used to using is asinine and if you can't tell I am rather upset about it. Please for the sake of god bring it back.

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Community Beginner ,
May 21, 2014

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I get the impression that you do not read too much .... You have to read the whole topic before saying certain things about what others have said.

I think the answers 24, 26 , 27, 34 and 60 of Jeff Schewe , are sufficiently explicit.

So do not give him more around the bush , the preview button panel is gone and things are as they are .....

If the Adobe engineers have clearly prefer this way of doing things , we can do little about it.

But yeah, I feel good that users protest , if only that, the action of kicking .
I doubt that's going to result in that Adobe would think a little better and back in his obstinacy that ACR should remain as it is, but good is that users do let them know that we do not agree,
however much they think them, and only them, are those who know how to do things and others protested because we simply have no idea and do bad things.

Perhaps by insisting they would just think a little better ......

So you know, from now on , there will be more and better to use Ctrl Z. ..... Nor is so serious ....


I beg your pardon my poor English


Regards

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Community Beginner ,
May 21, 2014

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I got this reply from someone I know who works at Adobe. He said:

"I did find this post which discusses some thinking on the change and a way to get per panel previews, not just the 'all or nothing' that you explain below.

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2014/04/the-new-preview-feature-in-camera-raw.html

I do believe the team is currently investigating more changes as well; I don't think the hue and cry is falling on deaf ears."

I tried the suggestion and it does work but, honestly, it is complicated. So now, instead of simply hitting the preview box to toggle back and forth whereever you are,  you need to remember to do alt/p to set the original, then do the work, then hit p to see the 'before.' Then in the next panel, again, you need to do alt/p to save what you did in that panel, then p will take you back and forth.

On the other hand ctl-z does all of this w/o the dance.

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Engaged ,
May 21, 2014

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That's pretty much what I found. You have to be careful in using the setup toggles in that you don't inadvertently hit the copy current settings while intending to use the before/after. If you are trying to run a process with some degree of tractability, you then are totally screwed. Especially if you don't realize what happened, precisely.

Which all well and good...if your interest is software, or maybe generating a better UI. But as a user wanting consistent, specific results, the single toggle/panel is the gold standard while allowing the more complex version to be implemented concurrently. That is, at any time in the procedure, you can always investigate possibilities before committing to placing it in the unfolding operation.

BTW, I see that misspelled words are now underlined as we type.

Welcome to the 21st Century, Jive. Only 14 years late!

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Community Beginner ,
May 21, 2014

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I sent basically this same info to my contact at Adobe. Not that I think it will make much difference. They seem to thing having to make multiple keystrokes and memorize what you have done is a simpler method. I still don't get what we receive in turn...beyond a split before after screen. And that, for me, simply isn't worth the extra hassle.

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Engaged ,
May 21, 2014

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They probably shrugged it off as multi-tasking, which, BTW, has been discredited as a human capability.

We are single-threaded!

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Adobe Employee ,
Jun 03, 2014

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Hi, all!

Please check out the ACR release candidate, available today:

Adobe Photoshop Camera Raw 8.5 CC Release Candidate | digital camera raw file support - Adobe Labs

From the release notes:

  • Added new Per-Panel Preview default toggle
    • If the current panel's settings are not the ACR defaults, clicking the new Per-panel Toggle Button will reset the panel to the ACR defaults.
    • Clicking the button again will restore the previous settings.
    • This is a standalone feature, separate from the new Preview controls
    • The changes are applied to the main view; if you have both the Before and After panes visible, changes will appear in the After pane.

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Participant ,
Jun 03, 2014

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Thanks for the per-panel preview default. It makes much more sense now, IMHO.

But what has really surprised me is the new graduated/radial filter brush - AMAZING!! I can't wait to see it in LR 5.5 (because it WILL be in LR 5.5, I hope!!).

THANKS again for your great work.

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Engaged ,
Jun 03, 2014

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Sigh!

Thank you, thank you Max! I did a quick check after the D/L and it works fine.

I hope this takes the swagger out of a certain party we all know and love!

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Adobe Employee ,
Jun 03, 2014

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There are some key differences between the new per-panel defaults toggle and the old Preview checkbox:

  • The new per-panel defaults toggle actually changes your settings: you see your sliders move to reflect the actual settings that are applied.
  • Put another way, this isn't really a "Preview" like before: your sliders show you the current values used to render the image... what you see is what you get.
  • Because of this, there is no longer the potential for confusion from clicking Done or Open with old Preview checkbox turned off, resulting in an image that didn't look like what you were seeing in ACR.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 03, 2014

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Hudechrome wrote:

I hope this takes the swagger out of a certain party we all know and love!

Nope...because what you don't know is that behind the scenes, I really DID try to get the ACR engineers to reconsider the per panel preview and was told it wouldn't happen. But, to Max's credit, he figured out a way to show a default toggle and did the work to put it in. Note, it's NOT the same as the old behavior but seems to address the major points the users here on this thread were clamoring for. So, you can thank Max for his hard work...

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Engaged ,
Jun 03, 2014

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Yep! I actually didn't think it would change your behavior.

What you say you did behind the scenes matters not at all so far as your swagger when appearing on these pages.

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Engaged ,
Jun 03, 2014

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It gave me what I was looking for, at any rate.

But! I opened PS opened a .psd, hit Ctr-P and got the message "Photoshop has Stopped Working...

From Events:

Faulting application name: Photoshop.exe, version: 14.2.1.570, time stamp: 0x52f4a9f2

Faulting module name: ntdll.dll, version: 6.1.7601.18247, time stamp: 0x521eaf24

Exception code: 0xc0000374

Fault offset: 0x00000000000c4102

Faulting process id: 0x183c

Faulting application start time: 0x01cf7f7eb0aaab60

Faulting application path: C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop CC (64 Bit)\Photoshop.exe

Faulting module path: C:\Windows\SYSTEM32\ntdll.dll

Report Id: 2ec3a9be-eb76-11e3-9613-002618e82977


I don't think it's the new update, but because this is all that changed in my system, and the update is RC, I thought to post it here.


I did a restore point, but no to avail.


I'll try  Backup Restore and see what happens.


Win 7 64 bit.


Again, thanks Max.


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Explorer ,
Jun 04, 2014

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Max,

My sincere thanks for your first class response. You have done a super job which delivers all that was required and more.   It is very gratefully received and much appreciated.  Thanks again.

All best wishes

Thom. 

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 04, 2014

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A couple of questions...is this release of 8.5 a beta version?  And what I've read here confuses me.  It sounds like the toggle takes you back to default in individual panes but that was the problem before.  What is needed is a way to step back only what you did in that pane. I'm on my phone here because I don't have internet access and thus can't download the update to try it for myself

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Engaged ,
Jun 04, 2014

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It's a fourth button that restores to defaults for the individual pane only. If you want to step between successive adjustments in that pane, Ctrl-Z is available.

I'm up early trying to battle the PSCC crash upon going to print! I really need to be able to step back to 8.4. I downloaded it but it refuses to install. Unless I can do that, I cannot be sure 8.5 isn't to blame, despite the notion that ACR isn't running PSCC.

Or is it?

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Participant ,
Jun 04, 2014

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I don't know if acr 8.5 is to blame for the print issue (sounds weird since, as you say, ACR is not running PSCC, but who knows). But I wanted to remind that since the latest CC update, we can also download an older version like CS6 from the CC application. Of course it might be overkill to download CS6 just for printing out something, but if this is an urgent matter and you are desperate to find a solution, you might want to give it a try as a last resort (if new CC features are used in the document, save a flattened copy first just in case). Again, you probably knew that, but... just in case.

---

As for Jeff's swagger... come on people, don't be mean - let's be honest, he's earnt his right to swagger all he wants! Even if I did not agree with some of the things he said, I still highly appreciate that Jeff Schewe himself takes time to share his thoughts and knowledge here. In fact, without his interest in discussing the issue, maybe the engineers wouldn't have looked so much into this issue.

So thanks to you too, Jeff. In fact, thanks everybody - because it's not the new checkbox that really makes me happy the most, but the feeling that there is sensible people listening to us at Adobe, the idea that, while not everybody will be satisfied always, still there's a dialogue, a chance to be heard. You know what, maybe it's not really Jeff who should be explaning himself, but other people that, on different web sites, were quick to state that the preview checkbox removal was a clear sign that Adobe doesn't give a damn about the users, blah blah blah (and then of course, one things leads to another and we're in for yet another "anti-cc model" speech).

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Engaged ,
Jun 04, 2014

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Thanks, but I am not desperate to print at the moment. It just is weird that this particular crash in PSCC should show up just after updating ACR. Now, I don't know for a fact that the timing is correct because I don't know if the crash would have happened before actually upgrading, that is, an immediate before/after test. To check that, I need 8.4, and even that may not tell the story.

My annoyance with Jeff goes back to the "ship has sailed" comment way back. In fact, it has been corrected. The lack of respect simply because he perceives us to be "little people" not worthy of consideration, which is rather implicit in his comments, is way over the top. If that is so, none of us need to offer our expertise because it probably won't measure up.

Besides, I didn't actually name him in my post, simply stating a certain party, and with a smiley.

As it is said, "if the shoe fits.....

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 04, 2014

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That is different from before how? That's exactly what was happening before. If, for instance, you corrected a dark area that was also noisy, then went to the details pane and corrected for the noise but wanted to see a before/after of ONLY the noise action, you were instead, taken back to the default which in the case of this image I'm talking about, was now too dark to tell. Leaving me the ctl-z option. Thankfully there's that. But please tell me how this latest change is any different from the way it worked before. Sadly, there's a new camera out I want and I will be forced to update sooner than I expected.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 04, 2014

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ycardozo wrote:

A couple of questions...is this release of 8.5 a beta version?

Of course it is.  RC = Release Candidate means a very advanced beta version that ADobe feels confident it is safe to release to the general public, but would like to test a bit further.

In all my 29 years as an Adobe customer and former customer (since 1985) I have never seen an ASdobe RC release pulled back or changed before the GM release.

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Engaged ,
Jun 04, 2014

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Doing the step as you described, using the new button on the Details pane resets only that pane to default for that pane. However, if you have sharpening set to a value other than default, it also resets to default (which for me, is zero for everything. So, if I want to see say the noise change, I have to use Ctrl -Z.

On another item, I uninstalled PSCC and re-installed it but it came back with 8.5 and not 8.4. The crash still happens.

Max, can you verify as to the possibility that 8.5 might corrupt PSCC?

Thanks.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 04, 2014

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So if I install the present advanced version would I then install the final version when it comes out and would that create some sort of conflict. That used to happen with beta versions in the past, I've been told me

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Engaged ,
Jun 04, 2014

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I would like to know that as well.

I just did a complete recovery using System Image and I am back to 8.4.1.200. No more crashes. I am thinking of re-installing 8.5, but if there are conflicts with the final version, I probably should wait as well.

Max?

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Engaged ,
Jun 04, 2014

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Ah, I couldn't wait!

8.5 is installed and now running with no PSCC crashes.

I hate riddles! I think it would do very well to be able to roll back at the first sign of trouble. Would have saved me at least 8 hrs. Of course, I could have simply done the System Image last night once restore didn't work but hey! That would be too easy!

The OS today isn't what it was last night since I rolled back to 06-01-2014 and whatever existed between then and now changed with the System Image install.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 04, 2014

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Good grief!  No. 

When the final (GM, or Gold Master) version is released, the Adobe Auto Updater (Help menu > Updates) will install it for you when you ask—not behind your back,.

Where do get these superstitious, quasi-religious fears about a Release Candidate, ycardozo? 

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 04, 2014

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No I didn't say anything about something happening behind one's back but in much earlier years I had a friend install a beta version of photoshop and when the full version came out he had problems. The final didn't install over the beta. He had to uninstall the beta first and it did not go well. This was many years ago but I've been wary of betas since

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LEGEND ,
Jun 04, 2014

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I've been using computers in the course of my work since the mid 1960s, The Mac for over 29 years, Photoshop seriously for some 11 years and I've never had a problem with an Adobe RC.

Plain betas are a different animal from a Release Candidate.  Never install one unless you know exactly what you are doing and you're being paid to test said beta.

Simple rule: if you have to ask, don't go anywhere near it.

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Engaged ,
Jun 04, 2014

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Yes and no. I did significant testing when the i7 processor and chipset appeared (Nehalem), doing validation on an overclocking utility. We were very close to release of this utility but before we did, Win 7 RC showed up. I had to push regression and validation testing to accommodate it and in no way would we have released the utility on just the RC.

The sigh of relief in the release meeting was palpable when I sat down with the results of the final version of Win 7.

I don't think it's that much different for Adobe, albeit PS is not an OS!

I am still struggling with the infernal crash of PSCC using print command. It came back for a third time. It may be a keyboard problem because using the mouse to invoke printing worked. BUT, as soon as it did, then the keyboard worked too! With 8.4.1.200 installed. I haven't upgraded this time to 8.5. I may tomorrow. I am now suspicious of the SSD except only print command causes the failure.

Ježiš a Mária svätá sviatosť!

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Engaged ,
Jun 08, 2014

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Try it and then come back. Use Backup to backup your computer first, then if you don't like it go to the backup to get back.

Or try it on your laptop first.

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Adobe Employee ,
Jun 25, 2014

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I made a short tutorial video about the new Preview features - I hope you find this useful!

New Preview Features in Adobe Camera Raw 8.5 - YouTube

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 25, 2014

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That was VERY helpful. It gives a good understanding of how all this works. Thanks Max.

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Engaged ,
Jun 25, 2014

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Ditto that, Max. Thanks. Now I have a baseline to see what's happening with the buttons.

Maybe I'll try split toning sometime as well. Lord knows, I've tried to do that outside RAW. (Split toning has generally meant to me some rather outrageous moves as I've seen in analog days!)

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Adobe Employee ,
Jun 26, 2014

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For a case like this, I would actually normally make that kind of edit using the tone curve on the blue channel. For the video, though, I wanted a clear case of two unrelated (UI-wise) adjustments being previewed together.

Which isn't to knock split tone at all - sometimes it's much easier to use it. It's just a bit of a bigger hammer than I would have normally used in this case.

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 13, 2014

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I'm not sure where to go with this problem. I did the updates for CC on my laptop. Now I seem to have gained a separate version of Photoshop CC called Photoshop CC 2014. It appears to be a totally unupdated version. Normally I could care less but now, I can't open images from Bridge to my regular CC program. I double click on the RAW image, CC shows up and ... nothing. Then I have to open this 'ghost' Photoshop CC 2014 program and the RAW image will open in that. I have no idea what this 'new' version of CC is, only that it has absolutely no updates. It's version 14.0.0 and the straight Photoshop CC is 14.2.1. And when I check with the Creative Cloud panel, it says everything is up to date.

I purposely didn't update my desktop computer but when I just checked the Adobe Creative Cloud panel, an update for the creative cloud poped up and wouldn't let me ignore it and continue on to the other panels. In other words, I can't see what else is going on. It's either update Creative Cloud or do nothing on the desktop. I wonder what would happen if I uninstalled Photoshop CC 2014 on the laptop...whether it would somehow screw up my original Photoshop CC. 

I have tried going to my Windows Explorer (my directory finder) and have clicked on a RAW image and told it to default to Photoshop CC but every time I go back to Windows Explorer, the open command has shifted back to the CC 2014 program. I am totally stumped. I am on windows 7 on both the destkop and laptop.

Has anyone else encountered this? It's linked to all those updates that came out recently.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 13, 2014

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The new version should be PS-CC-2014.0.0 not PS-CC-14.0.0. In other words Adobe’s decided to use the year, since there isn’t a perpetual-license version, now.

PS CC 2014 doesn’t support Flash extensions, only HTML5, and some old things have been removed so Adobe didn’t remove CC 14.x when they installed 2014.x.

Here is a blog entry about what got removed: https://blogs.adobe.com/photoshopdotcom/2014/04/photoshop-spring-cleaning.html

As far as your issue about an image not opening in ACR, anymore, from Bridge, that is usually remedied by uninstalling and reinstalling PS CC 2014.

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 13, 2014

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What happens if I just uninstall PS CC 2014. It doesn't have anything I want and seems to have created new problems. Or is this the way updates are going from now on. What a mess. When it comes time to finally update CC on my desktop, can I just ignore CC 2014?

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Engaged ,
Jul 13, 2014

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Yours is doing exactly what mine does, and likely, all of them. My version number indicates I have the updates. (None in CC2014 to date.)

I cannot fathom how We are supposed to run version 14 as an independent program. Here is what happens when I try.

I first open PSCC version 14.2.1. It is now open. Next, I select a tiff file. It opens in ACR. I make no change but proceed to open image. The Photoshop screen shows up, but nothing happens. I check the version. It is now CC2014! No startup screen with the ugly logo. I wait a while, then repeat the file opening by way of ACR. Still, nothing happens. So I exit Photoshop CC2014, repeat the steps .tiff>ACR>Open and now I see the ugly logo confirming CC2014. Now the file opens in CC2014...three times!

So engaging CC14.2.1 means nothing and the invisible takeover by CC2014 is a cipher.

CC2014 doesn't even qualify as an RC, barely a beta. Had I been presented with it as is as a beta, I would uninstall. Now, if I want to go back, I have to use Windows Backup, which I have frozen since CC2014 was installed.

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Engaged ,
Jul 13, 2014

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Ok mine is different than yours because my files do open in ACR when required first.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 13, 2014

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CC 2014 is likely going to have updates going forward, not CC 14, so if you want to stop updating CC, go ahead, but I’d suggest getting CC 2014 working, instead.

I personally haven’t had any problems with CC 2014, but did have a problem with LR 5.5 that clearing out the SLCache folder fixed.

I think the “it’s a mess” happened because the developers and testers were overwhelmed this time with getting things ready for the big Adobe “the cloud is new again” announcement that was scheduled a month or two in advance, and apparently didn’t have time to get everything working.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 13, 2014

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CC 2014 is supposed to take over from CC 14, if you have both installed. On Windows, at least, there is one registry entry for “Photoshop” and the last PS to be installed updates it to itself. The workaround is to have whatever version of PS open, already, but sometimes that must not work.

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Engaged ,
Jul 13, 2014

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Exactly! Fix it in Battle!

Horsepucky, unless Adobe wishes to cover losses when using CC2014 in it's crippled state.

And, of course, I know that workaround. It does work if your file does not need to go to ACR first, like a .psd.

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 13, 2014

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I have tried to get the images to default upon opening to CC but even if I change it in Windows Explorer (the directory finder), the minute I try opening that same image again it goes back to 2014. The only way I can get it to work is:

1. Open CC (the 'old' version)

2. Open the RAW file by initiating 'file/open' in Photoshop

3. then the RAW image opens in Bridge and will open properly in CC.

Since CC2014 appears to be a completely un updated version of Photoshop, why on earth would I EVER want to use it for anything. Sheesh, just as things settled down and were working properly, this crap happens. As a result, I will NOT update photoshop on my desktop.

One question...I went to the Creative Cloud panel to see exactly what had and had not been updated on my desktop machine and a panel came up asking if I wanted to update Creative Cloud. If I say no (exit) the panel closes and I can't get any further. What will happen to my other Photoshop programs (the ones I have NOT updated) if I initiate this infuriating Creative Cloud update. There is absolutely nothing on the update I want but I can't seem to get around that initial page. And I am truly worried that updating this will open the CC2014 can of worms.

Finally, all of this is only happening with my RAW files. Jpegs and Tiffs open from Bridge into 'old' CC just fine.

Is there any way to make 2014 NOT the default program for opening RAW files?

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 13, 2014

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ssrengel,

No, having CC open doesn't solve the problem. If I want to open in the 'old' version, I have to have that open and then do file/open and open it from there, not bridge. Then, when I open from bridge, it opens in the 'old' program. And for whatever it's worth, the 'new' version, when I do help/about photoshop comes up as 2014.0.0. Though at this point, I don't think what it's actually called via 'help' matters.

We finally got all the update bugs straightened out and they do this to us.

So...does 2014 have all the updates that 'old' CC now has? Does it have it's own Bridge?

??????

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jul 13, 2014

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Here is the summary of what PS CC 2014 does different/more than PS CC 14:

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/features.html

I’ve only seen one Bridge, though.

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ycardozo LATEST
Community Beginner ,
Jul 13, 2014

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So it does have new features and the improved content aware tool is beyond cool. That makes me feel a LOT better about all of this. It appears to mean 2014 has everything (except the deleted stuff) that CC (old) has. THANK  YOU. Seriously, thank you. I just wasn't ready to take part in yet another bug trek. Got to admit, the new splash screen is truly dorky. Really loved the exploding one. A shame they've done away with the design...but how minor is that.

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