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Lms reporting success status=pass/fail, where it should give unknown while running on saba 5.3

New Here ,
Apr 09, 2012

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I am trying to run my content on SABA 5.3 , After exiting the content the lms displays success status as Pass or Fail where it should show Unknown. My content does not contain any quiz, so on which basis lms is calculating the success status.

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Lms reporting success status=pass/fail, where it should give unknown while running on saba 5.3

New Here ,
Apr 09, 2012

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I am trying to run my content on SABA 5.3 , After exiting the content the lms displays success status as Pass or Fail where it should show Unknown. My content does not contain any quiz, so on which basis lms is calculating the success status.

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Apr 09, 2012 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Apr 09, 2012

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Could you check Advanced Interaction panel (F9) if none of the interactive objects has a score attached?

Lilybiri

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Apr 09, 2012 0
New Here ,
Apr 09, 2012

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Hi Lilybiri,

I have checked Advanced Interaction panel and none of the interactive objects have scored attached.

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Apr 09, 2012 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 09, 2012

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Have your set this course to report as SCORM 1.2 or 2004?

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Apr 09, 2012 0
New Here ,
Apr 10, 2012

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Hi RodWard,

It's SCORM 2004.

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Apr 10, 2012 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 10, 2012

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Can you upload a screenshot of your Captivate Quiz Reporting Settings?

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Apr 10, 2012 0
New Here ,
Apr 10, 2012

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quiz_settings.png

Dear RodWard,

In case if you have not noticed , my content has no quiz in it, it's only interactive content,

is it possible for lms to show "unknown " for "success status"

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Apr 10, 2012 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 10, 2012

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Yes I know you said your content had no quiz, but please try to remember that we answer hundreds of these enquiries and it's not uncommon for people to tell us one thing when their settings say another.  So I have the habit of asking to see the actual screenshot.

Each LMS interprets the SCORM standard a little differently.  In SCORM 2004 a course module can have both a status for Complete or Incomplete, as well as a separate status for Pass or Fail. (Under SCORM 1.2 the overall status was tracked by a single element - cmi.core.lesson_status - allowing for only a single status value that would boil down to Complete vs Incomplete or Pass vs Fail values.

Under SCORM 2004 there are two separate elements tracking completion and success.

The SCORM 2004 element cmi.completion_status is designed to indicate whether the learner has completed the SCO and can take the following status values:

  • completed,
  • incomplete,
  • not attempted,
  • unknown

Your Pass/Fail status in SCORM 2004 falls under the element called cmi.success_status. This one indicates whether the learner has mastered the objective and can take the following values:

  • passed,
  • failed,
  • unknown

So while it is possible for a value of "unknown" to be set for either cmi.completion_status or cmi.success_status, I don't think this would be very commonly done for a Captivate module that actually has interaction data being sent to the LMS.  If the user is interacting with the content at all it would seem more likely that you'd be getting a 'completed' or 'incomplete' status value in the completion element and a 'pass' or 'fail' value in the success_status element.

The bit I don't understand is why are you particularly keen to see a value of 'unknown' showing up here?

Check this page for information about getting SABA to work with Captivate: http://www.infosemantics.com.au/adobe-captivate-learning-managment-system-lms-guide/saba

Perhaps one of the threads it links to will provide more help for you.

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Apr 10, 2012 0
New Here ,
Apr 10, 2012

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O.K RodWard,

actually i want my success status to be unknown everytime, even if the course is completed or not,

So, my question is can we imply this by doing some changes in th javascript or in imsmanifest file.

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Apr 10, 2012 0
New Here ,
Apr 29, 2012

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RodWard, thanks for your inputs.

To answer your question about why "unknown" status is being asked for. The client says that since the content does not have any Quiz, and is a non scoring module, how can one get a "pass/fail" it should be "unknown".

I would love to know what your response would be for the logic posed by client, is it a fair expectation or you think its not logical.

Eagerly waiting for the reply, as its a very heated situation we are in - your response is much appreciated.

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Apr 29, 2012 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 29, 2012

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As I said above in my previous post, since you are reporting to SCORM 2004 standard, your course modules can potentially have BOTH a Complete/Incomplete as well as a Pass/Fail status. The Completion status is looking at whether or not the user has accessed any of the content, i.e. whether or not they looked at slides in the Captivate module.  The Pass / Fail status in SCORM 2004 would only really apply if you had some scored elements in your project, which you say you do not have.

Take a look at this page: http://scorm.com/blog/2007/08/scorm-2004-completion/

Note particularly the excerpt from the SCORM 2004 standard that states: "If the SCO does not set the cmi.completion_status, then the LMS shall use the default value of “unknown” as the value for cmi.completion_status.

This indicates that the LMS will basically accept whatever completion status the SCO feeds it.  The Unknown status is reserved for situations where the LMS doesn't get ANY completion status from the SCO and therefore doesn't know what to do. It's not allowed to suggest any complete/incomplete status, so it will use Unknown instead.

So given that:

  • Any user that accesses your Captivate module is going to view at least ONE slide, and
  • You have your SCORM settings configured to report Slide Views, so even if the user accesses one slide, that will be reported to the LMS, and
  • You have specified 100% of slides required to be viewed in order to achieve Completion.
  • Then it's only logical that the appropriate completion status IS known and should be set to Incomplete, not Unknown.

My feeling is that Captivate's response to the LMS is perfectly appropriate in your situation, and I still don't understand why anyone on the LMS side would prefer a status of Unknown, which basically tells them nothing, when the status of Incomplete would be much more informative. At least the Incomplete status tells you the user has accessed the content in some way.

Also note the information in the final paragraph of the weblink above that says:

"There are two best practices that content vendors implement to avoid this behavior. The first is to override the default value in the manifest and set “completion set by content” to true. The second is to immediately set cmi.completion_status to incomplete upon launch of the content. This call tells the LMS that it should expect completion information to be explicitly recorded and should not auto-complete."

I have a feeling (but have not confirmed) that Captivate at least uses the second of the two methods mentioned. I.e. that it sets cmi.completion_status to incomplete upon launch of the content.  If so, then as soon as your user opens the SCO it's going to be reported as incomplete.  If you wanted to over-ride this behaviour and have the value set by default to Unknown instead of Incomplete, you'd probably need to hack the Javascript code in Captivate's SCORM HTM templates to achieve it.  I can't help you with that.

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Apr 29, 2012 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 30, 2012

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In reading all of your posts again I have an extra question:  Are you getting ANY status reporrted as Incomplete, or only a Fail?

If you are getting status reported as Fail instead of Incomplete when the user accesses the course but does not view all modules, I would tend to think there MUST be some scoring object in your course.  Do you by any chance have the Quiz Results slide showing, even though you have NO quiz questions?

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Apr 30, 2012 0
New Here ,
Apr 30, 2012

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When the user completes the course:

1A. success_status : passed

2A. completion_status : completed

When the user exits mid way :

1B. success_status : failed

2B completion_status : incomplete

Quiz result slide is not showing.

Summarizing : Client is ok with 2A, 2B however is expecting 1A, 1B to be unknown .

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Apr 30, 2012 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 30, 2012

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I can't see anything wrong with what Captivate is reporting here. 

If you DO NOT want to have both Pass/Fail as well as Complete/Incomplete statuses reported, then maybe you should be using SCORM 1.2 instead of 2004.  SCORM 1.2 only reports one status or the other.

In asking for Unknown to be reported under SCORM 2004, I suspect that your client is asking for something that would go against the SCORM standard. 

Since the user HAS accessed the course and they HAVE viewed one or more slides, the appropriate completion status is Incomplete or Complete (depending on the required completion percentage).  Since you're currently using SCORM 2004, which MUST report Pass/Fail status as well, if the user bails out partway through the course, it's got to report Fail. If they successfully complete the course by viewing the required number of slides, then they've passed it as well.  Why would it report a Fail status when all that was required was completion, and completion was successful?  The only way you would get Completion of a SCORM 2004 course with a Fail status as well would be if there were scored elements in the SCO and the user did not achieve a passing score (even though they viewed all slides). 

Again, because there IS a known result reported to the LMS, reporting the status as Unknown would not be correct...as far as I can see. 

If I had your client, I'd be telling them what they wanted was unreasonable.

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Apr 30, 2012 0
New Here ,
May 15, 2012

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Dear RodWard, I owe you a beer. You may redeem whenever and wherever we meet...

The discussion above helped me closed the very escalated discussion with the client and we have a resolution now.

You rock !

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May 15, 2012 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 15, 2012

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You're on!

What corner of the world are you in?

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May 15, 2012 0
New Here ,
Jun 09, 2012

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Hi RodWard, I am from India.

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Jun 09, 2012 0
New Here ,
Jun 22, 2012

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Rod,

I have a similar situation.

We have a lesson that does have a quiz at the end. We are using SCORM 2004. When a user launches a lesson and bails mid-way, without starting the quiz, our LMS is showing that they have failed that lesson. Is there a way, using SCORM 2004, to only report the success status only after they have started the quiz?

In other words, we want the user to see the lesson as incomplete if they have not attempted the quiz, but right now they see they have failed without attempted quiz.

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Jun 22, 2012 0
Guide ,
Jun 22, 2012

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Technically, this is not possible. The options per the spec are passed/failed and completed/incomplete...there is no official 'passed/incomplete' variation.

It could be possible to 'hack' the Captivate javascript, however, to intercept a 'failed' status and report 'incomplete' instead....would take some smart JS knowledge/programming though.

First, why use SCORM 2004? You are definitely looking to report both a 'success' and 'completion' status with 2004. As Rod suggests earlier on, try 1.2 in order to narrow down the report to *either* pass/fail or completed/incomplete...

Without customizing the JS, as far as I know, you're limited to the official options. So your customer may need to decide between 'completed/incomplete' and 'pass/fail'. If 'fail' is too strong, go for the other combination...

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Jun 22, 2012 0
New Here ,
Mar 20, 2013

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I'm a bit late to join this discussion, but this is an area that's puzzled me.

Why can't you have a lesson that has been launched and then aborted before encountering an evaluation and have cmi.completion_status = Incomplete and cmi.success_status= Unknown

It seems that in the SCORM 2004 Sequence Navigation standards the "Objective Rollup Process" defines that cmi.success status is only "unknown" until the lesson is launched and then an Objective must be set.  If you don't set an objective (because there's no evaluation), then the status must be "failed".  I don't like this rule as clients have a tendancy to think that "Success" = Failed = bad.

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Mar 20, 2013 0
Guide ,
Mar 20, 2013

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You can...it depends on how your LMS is setup to respond. The LMS we use (Inquisiq) will report each status...so if you just set 'completion' to 'Incomplete' and don't set 'success', then 'success will be reported as 'unknown'.

Some LMS products however do seem to 'rollup' the responses and show whatever was set in an overall 'status' field, ignoring what was not.

On the other hand, I was not aware there was some 'objective' requirement related to either status. Are you sure about that?

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Mar 20, 2013 0
New Here ,
Mar 27, 2013

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Joe Donnelly at Scorm.com has just pointed us in the right direction in that we were missing some rollup rules in the manifest to prevent a default Failed status:

        <imsss:sequencing>

            <imsss:rollupRules rollupObjectiveSatisfied="true" rollupProgressCompletion="true">

                <imsss:rollupRule childActivitySet="all">

                    <imsss:rollupConditions conditionCombination="all">

                        <imsss:rollupCondition condition="satisfied" operator="noOp"></imsss:rollupCondition>

                    </imsss:rollupConditions>

                    <imsss:rollupAction action="satisfied"></imsss:rollupAction>

                </imsss:rollupRule>

            </imsss:rollupRules>

        </imsss:sequencing>

Now our lessons correctly report Success as "Incomplete" until success is achieved and they report Success as "passed"

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Mar 27, 2013 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 27, 2013

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Joe,

What version of Captivate are you using?  Are you saying that this code was missing from the Captivate imsmanifest.xml template?

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Mar 27, 2013 0
New Here ,
Mar 28, 2013

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Hi Rod,

The original problem wasn't with Captivate but if Captivate users are experiencing the problem described in this thread, as we were, the solution we've found useful may be of use to Captivate users also.

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Mar 28, 2013 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 28, 2013

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I was asking which version of Cp you were using to see if it was version 6.0 or later which has the new Rustici SCORM drivers.  I was interested to see if the issue with your LMS still existed after publishing from Cp6x.

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Mar 28, 2013 0
New Here ,
Jan 23, 2020

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Hi everyone - 7 years late to the game but faced with a similar issue and need some pro help! 

 

I am trying to capture the words "Pass" or "Fail" within results of my LMS courses but the system is only reporting as "In Progress" or "Complete." Is there anything I need to specifically do within the course or LMS or get it to read the quiz results and actually say "Pass" or "Fail" in LMS reporting? I fear this may be a fault in our Oracle LMS system, but it is defeating the purpose of us seeing if users are passing the quiz data. I'm using Scorm 1.2 settings (see below screenshot). Would this be better as Scorm 2004? 

 

Screen Shot 2020-01-23 at 8.25.23 AM.pngScreen Shot 2020-01-23 at 8.25.16 AM.png

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Jan 23, 2020 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 23, 2020

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Your settings look fine to me.  But the simplest way to find out if this is just your LMS being antsy is to upload the same module to SCORM Cloud.  Does SCORM Cloud report it as passed?  (I think it probably would.)

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Jan 23, 2020 0
New Here ,
Jan 23, 2020

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Thank you so much for responding!!

 

For some reason, when I try to view in Scorm Cloud, I receive the below failure. Would this be an access thing by chance? Or is something wrong within the settings of my course? 

Screen Shot 2020-01-23 at 5.22.15 PM.png

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Jan 23, 2020 0
RodWard LATEST
Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 26, 2020

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Don't worry about the Preview in SCORM Cloud feature.  Too many things can go wrong with that.  Just publish to a SCORM zip and then upload that to SCORM Cloud via the web.  That's going to give you a more genuine test of what an LMS should be. 

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Jan 26, 2020 0