Character Animator, Reset Layer Doesn't reset objects to original position as in illustrator artwork

[cakeller]

Create an illustrator artwork file with a layer, and another layer inside that layer.

Create a box in the first layer, and another box inside the second layer

import this into Character Animator

move the boxes around in Character Animator

move the boxes around in Illustrator, save

after updating the connection to illustrator the boxes will not be in their original location, or matching illustrator.  they also cannot be "reset" to their original location because their precise x and y location is trasnfered from illustrator and not specifically known to the user in any way.

Reset layer does not work.  Deleting the layers in Character Animator DOES work but it then removes ALL the behaviors and handles etc.

RESET LAYER in Character Animator should reset everything to as it was when it was first imported!

[oksamurai]

I just tried this and "reset layer" did work for me as I would expect (CH matches the synced artwork file), so it's possible this is a bug? However - my recommendation is to stick to the original artwork file for moving things around, not Character Animator. While CH does have the capability of basic property transformations, eventually if you're trying to reconcile two different states you're likely going to run into something unexpected at some point.

[cakeller]

OK So there is more to it apparently.

I move the origin-handles of these layers. I did this to set up pivots for rotation/scaling. 

When I move the objects in illustrator, the pivots stay where they were in Character animator but the shapes move. 

PS> if I have never moved the pivots, and do the same, then a RESET on the layers will move the shapes away from the origin handles!

Here's the puppet, it's not complicated - but: Download Puppet Only

Here's a link to the project (which should include the history): Download Project

[oksamurai]

Ah that helps a lot - thanks for sending that!

In general, rigging is very particular about positioning. So yes, adding a Transform behavior to artwork and adding keyframes is going to lock in to wherever the origins are. If you move the artwork, it will think the keyframe origins are still in the original place and act accordingly (seemingly over rotating). Instead, if you really wanted to move this artwork after rigging and recording, I would use the main Transform behavior, or add another transform behavior to the parent group, to move everything that way.

[cakeller]

Except I'm not trying to move things around in a scene.  I'm trying to be able to iterate character designs, and repurpose rigs.  which is becoming increasingly clear that that's not possible.

The biggest problem, I thought I mentioned, was that if I move the artwork, even if I don't add transforms and even if the artwork doesn't appear to shift, if you RESET the layer the pivots move.  This is NOT what I would call "expected" behavior.

expected behavior would be: the pivots/origins and all riggin on a particular layer would follow the movement of that layer.  unfortunately that could cause technical problems as well because if the layer changes shape, then I presume the calculated origin could move.

might I suggest everything would be better by 1,000,000% if we could manually place the origin by a single point curve shape named ORIGIN?

obviously it would not work for a shape layer, but would work for groups and layers.  this would eliminate the manual nonsense of eyeballing placement of origins.

In fact... since the selection and drawing capabilities of handles, sticks, etc is so bad in Character Animator, wouldn't it be dreamy if we could just draw these features in illustrator!!! (a 2-point curve named "stick") a single point curve named "origin", "handle", "dragger", "dangle" (what if you want all of those tags? call it "origin handle dragger dangle"

whatever the case, there really should be a way to RESET objects equivalent to deleting it and letting it repopulate, without the nasty side effect of losing all the rigging. Sometimes these layers contain a lot of work.

FWIW this is not just a problem for the transform behavior. this applies simply by moving the origins.imagine how messed up Limb IK looks when the pivots get moved. And once that happens, in order to reset it to the actual as-imported state, you have only one choice - delete the layer and recreate the entire rigging sub-structure.

I mean - iteration in designing the characters leavves me feeling pretty frustrated with the amount of time I have to spend re-doing the same thing over and over again.

Another thing that makes finding offending origins that have been moved... there is no layer indicator like there is for a handle. handles have a count to the right of the layer. but an origin doesn't show in that count.  I Would suggest that all layers that have a visible origin have an * left of the handle count.  just a thought

[oksamurai]

Thanks for the detailed feedback, I appreciate it! I'll pass everything you just wrote to the team.

[ericc19576445]

I,  1 million times agree with everything mentioned above. The positioning in CA is a nightmare.  I make transparent null layers, guides, etc and go out of my way to avoid using any of the positioning tools in CA because its a house of cards. I make sure all alignment is perfect in my illustrator file. Today i noticed 1 single mouth state was randomly out of place yet perfect in my art file. Resetting its position would fix all my problems, but instead I have to delete the layer from CA and all its attached behaviors, so I can sync and have it appear as new to lock in the proper position. Then I need to remap all the behaviors.

This method is a house of cards. Please rethink how origin points work and how reset layer works.

Using CA feels like using a hammer to set a screw. It can do the job, but in the crudest form possible.