• Global community
    • Language:
      • Deutsch
      • English
      • Español
      • Français
      • Português
  • 日本語コミュニティ
    Dedicated community for Japanese speakers
  • 한국 커뮤니티
    Dedicated community for Korean speakers

Walk Behavior and Swap Sets

Participant ,
Oct 18, 2017 Oct 18, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Hi, AP here with a question about the walk behavior as it applies to Swap Sets. Previously I would use the right/left arrow keys to have this puppet move right/left and then revert to a neutral frontal view when no keys are being pressed. However now that I am integrating my puppet with Swap Sets, I use the right/left arrow keys to activate the walk behavior and the frontal view remains. What setting am I forgetting, or what do I have set incorrectly?

TOPICS
Bugs

Views

2.5K

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Adobe Employee ,
Oct 23, 2017 Oct 23, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

So I think this is the same issue as I ran into with the mouth stuff: https://youtu.be/1iS0gUoe1i8?t=11m16s

Basically, I think the profile triggers are potentially fighting with the walk triggers. Any time you have a behavior with invisible trigger-like tendencies - walk (trigger left or right), lip sync (trigger mouth shapes), face (trigger blinks), etc. - you can run into unexpected visibility issues.

If you remove the swap set for the profile changing does it work?

If it persists can you DM me the File > Export > Puppet to take a closer look?

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Participant ,
Oct 25, 2017 Oct 25, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Yes, it does work as intended when I remove the swap set, so I am going to assume it is a conflict between triggers. This particular puppet gets edited multiple times a day, so when I change the rigging to one action, it sometimes messes up the rigging for all the others - for instance, when I turned on CA this morning his independent warp settings (which appear to be correct the way I have BEEN using them) do not function the way they did last night when I quit working on this project. Now his head is moving away from his body, which should not be happening...

Let me know if you still want a look at the puppet file, I know you're busy and this guy has LAYERS where the issue could be, I will keep working on it till I get it right.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Adobe Employee ,
Oct 25, 2017 Oct 25, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

  • When you select the head it looks like there's something below it - a stick or tagged handle maybe? I wonder if that is having an effect on the head pulling off?
  • Check out Chloe from the Start panel - note how the only Fixed handles she has are on her BODY group. I would remove all the other fixed handles and just add them to the Body group - doing that should keep him planted on the floor.
  • Awesome character by the way - please keep me posted what you do with him!

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Participant ,
Oct 25, 2017 Oct 25, 2017

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

In order of your response:

1. That was a handle that was tagged as neck, I got rid of it, but it didn't seem to be the source of the head moving off...

2. I removed the fixed handles from every group except body, (to which I added them just to the whole body group itself instead of the body BG layer inside the Body group) I also switched the mesh shape on the two torso layers inside the main Body group from auto to contour, he seems to be working correctly and lo and behold... his head stopped coming off!

3.Thanks! This puppet is a character in my "digital YouTube comic" In Your Dreams - YouTube

He needs new functions pretty much every episode, so I am constantly updating him. At the moment I am upgrading his eye movement so that he can take advantage of the new clipping mask feature, and when I got that working okay, the blink function started to hide the pupils when running through its cycle layers. So I messed about with that for a bit, and got it working correctly, but only on the left pupil, the right has completely disappeared now. I *seem to have it set correctly, but the program isn't responding how I expect it to.  I guess my specific question regarding this entire thread would be:

"As I am moving a puppet built under the previous trigger tagging system to the new trigger/swap set system, does the tagging of layers in photoshop, (+, !, trigger etc...) still apply? How much does the swap set panel replace the "structure" of the way puppets are built before they are imported?" 

I feel like the actual layers in photoshop carry some kind of metadata or "cookies" that CA is relying on instead of noticing that those layers have been re-labeled so as not to "hide others in group" for instance, (because the swap set is doing that now.)  I am hoping that maybe there will be an update to the tutorial on the workflow of building a puppet is PS to accommodate the new trigger/swap set function. I feel like my puppet is a mess... I will send him to you, and how much time you invest into troubleshooting for me, is up to you. I appreciate your helpful advice, thanks!

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Explorer ,
Jul 11, 2018 Jul 11, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Hi TDFAP​ and oksamurai​! Was wondering if either of you have discovered a way to resolve this issue with Swap Sets and Walk behavior on the same puppet. I've got a puppet with 4 views -- Front, Left Profile, Right Profile, and Back -- and I'd like to be able to have him do all 3 of these things:

(1) Walk left and right -- standard walk behavior (which works if I remove the Swap Set)

(2) Stop walking and continue facing the direction he was walking in, rather than flipping to Front default view

(3) Stand in any of the views -- Front, Left Profile, Right Profile, and Back -- when triggered by my Swap Set

Is this just too much for one puppet? Would I need to create separate copies of my puppet for walking and standing, and use different ones within the scene depending on what I need him to do at that point?

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Participant ,
Jul 11, 2018 Jul 11, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Hello Emily, so... the way that I build puppets has changed dramatically since the introduction of swap sets, and this video was of a puppet that I was transitioning to work with the swap set feature when it was added. Now that I have had some time to play with swap sets and get comfortable with the functionality I would probably create a puppet that functions as you describe using the swap set behavior prioritized over the walk behavior. What I mean is that CH seems to have a conflict between the views (front, L/R profile etc) when these two behaviors compete for the tags. (It also happens with head turning and sometimes with motion trigger.)

To resolve that conflict, I would try setting up your puppet with each different angle view under the main puppet group in a swap set, that way you could control what view was showing at any given time with triggers. Then, within each of those groups add an independent walk cycle for that view. This way the walk cycle will only have a L/R to draw from. I know this makes sense in my head, but I hope I am describing it adequately. I can try and create a generic puppet rigging of what I'm talking about if it doesn't make translate...

It's almost like making a separate puppet for each view and then controlling them all nested within the main puppet group (of your artwork.) Let me know if it helps, or else I will try to explain myself better/demonstrate.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Explorer ,
Jul 12, 2018 Jul 12, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Thanks TDFAP​! I figured some sort of puppet-within-a-puppet configuration might do it. I'll play around with your suggestion of having a full "walk" puppet nested a layer deeper than my current views, and only applying the Walk behavior at that lower level. Will report back!

I saw OkaySamurai latest Tips & Tricks video addressed how to get the L/R head turner to work within the L/R walk cycle body views by adding extra behaviors to "brute force" CH to ignore the duplicative view tags. So, I think you're right that the Swap Set vs. Walk conflict will require a similar approach to creatively applying extra behaviors within groups.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Participant ,
Jul 12, 2018 Jul 12, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Hope it works, let us know how it goes. I'm building a new puppet right now on the theory of nested swap sets/triggers, where a trigger will activate a cycle layers animation with an entire swap set group as the last layer. That way I have an entirely new set of triggers that can be assigned at that lower level but only accessed when the trigger "above" is latched (and also set to "hold on last layer" in the cycle layers animation menu as well.)

It really depends on your end use for the puppet. I usually create puppets for use in long-form animations, with a secondary eye towards downloadable sales of puppets from my website. On one hand, I don't mind making the puppets more complex (puppets within puppets - so to speak) because I know that I am the puppeteer and know how to control my creations. On the other hand, I try to create puppets for download that are as simple to control as possible, so that they do have a wide range of functions, but that can be easily accessed if the end user is live streaming. It's really up to you and your creativity cause there is no "right" or "wrong" fix.

Best of luck! - AP

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Explorer ,
Jul 17, 2018 Jul 17, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

Thanks again for your help, TDFAP​! The new grouping structure works like a charm!

I have the groupings set up now with a "Non-Walk Group" at the top, and now he can walk in either direction AND stand and face any direction with a swap set trigger.

Structure.png

Structure looks like this:

Puppet Level (set Walk Behavior here)

1. Non-Walk Group (add Swap Set for standing views here)

   (a) Frontal

   (b) Left Profile (fixed feet; no tagged body parts for walking)

   (c) Right Profile (fixed feed; no tagged body parts for walking)

   (d) Back

2. Right Profile (tagged body parts for walking)

3. Left Profile (tagged body parts for walking)

Basically, now there are duplicate copies of the Left Quarter & Right Quarter profile bodies in the Non-Walk Group, but I didn't tag all the body parts for walking; instead, just put some fixed sticks over their feet. Then the higher level Left Quarter and Right Quarter body copies have all the walk body parts tagged.

Bonus of this set-up is that I can select different views in the Non-Walk Group to be his standing position, so he doesn't have to flip back to Front at the end of every walk. He can stay facing in the direction he was walking toward if I want him to now.

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines
Participant ,
Jul 17, 2018 Jul 17, 2018

Copy link to clipboard

Copied

LATEST

Great solution! Glad you got it working. This program supports just about anything with enough creativity and patience!

Likes

Translate

Translate

Report

Report
Community guidelines
Be kind and respectful, give credit to the original source of content, and search for duplicates before posting. Learn more
community guidelines