Coldfusion Builder now available

[Owainnorth]

Dunno if/when this was released in the States, but it's just come out in the UK.

However, it's £200 ($300), which for what it is I can't help but feel is pretty steep. Does anyone else have any opinions on this? Bearing in mind *all* it does is ColdFusion, whereas the (free) Eclipse IDE on which it is based also supports Java development, C, PHP, pretty much anything.

I was largely unimpressed with the Beta over CFEclipse, the only real benefit so far being that the CF9 syntax highlighting is there, plus the highlighting for script-based components.

I've never really been one for debuggers and addons, I've never really required them. Which means one of two things. Either:

1 - These features are largely unused gimmicks, which don't really perform any benefit - I'd always use SQL*Plus or SSMS for interacting with databases, I strongly dislike using RDS. Except for little plugins (Regex tested etc) I don't think I use any of the extra bits.I don't like having an IDE build my classes for me, because I like to have checked every single property and method myself and have thought about them one by one.

2 - I'm an idiot, and I'm massively missing out on some amazing features which would save me hours of my life.

I'd be genuinely interested to know if people will be purchasing Builder (and also if it's your own money or company funds) and if so, what is it that sold it to you?

Cheers

O.

[Guest]

To be perfectly honest I didn't really even know this was gonna be a pay for product. But I would agree that 300 bucks is over the top.  I have been using the latest beta, and its not worth that amount of money.  I will be moving back to cfeclipse.

For me the product is just not polished enough.  It takes ages to refresh large project folders, regardless of heap size settings.  The code assist to be honest is very poor (compared to Visual Studio anyway).  Debugging is great, but where are my conditional breakpoints?

I don't really get Adobes pricing anyway.  Licensing costs are pretty high, enterprise licensing is insane (why is server monitoring enterprise only? argh), and then they you have to pay for the tools?  I can't help but think, ColdFusion would be more succesful if they gave the IDE away.

[Joshua_Cyr]

The performance and bugs found in beta have been addressed for final release.  I had many of the same issues several months ago, and am a very happy camper now.

[Fernis]

1. I do like RDS. I do not develop on production servers anyway, so why hate it? I also use RDS Database explorer.

2. I like the inline help of ColdFusion builder.

3. I really appreciate having the latest up-to-date function/tag insight available.

4. I wouldn't judge CF Builder on beta experience too much. Yup, there were bugs and annoyances. Shocking.

However, I do agree with you on some parts - for many ColdFusion developers, it might not be worth the price - i.e. for a lonely, poor developer who's coding for his own fun. Few people obviously need the debugging, even fewer the team development features.

I would have had second thoughts on the price, but there's one killer in the bundle: Flash Builder 4 standard. That's definitely something for everyone to try out, since there's no denying that Flex rules, and you can do pretty serious stuff with it in a short time. It *is* a matter of learning compeltely another world, and not very easy compared to ColdFusion, but I think Adobe has done maginificient job with the new video tutorials. (Learn Flex in a week)

So yeah, I purchased CF Builder. It cost me my own money, which I don't have much (as my personal one man company is still fresh)

I paid mainly for the comfort level I want to have when coding, and a really big point was the included Flash Builder 4.

Without Flash Builder, I would have felt the product is severely overpriced. Now I feel it was quite good value as a bundle.

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- Fernis - fernis.net - ColdFusion Developer For Hire

[ProDesignTools]

If you hadn't seen, CF Builder is also available for free if you qualify...  Just wrote about it, and from checking the terms I believe it extends  internationally as well.

    http://prodesigntools.com/new-flash-builder-4-coldfusion-builder-get-them-free.html

[Owainnorth]

Not sure I'm convinced enough by it to get myself fired for a free license, but at least they're *starting* to see some sense

Thing is, no-one uses Coldfusion, not in the grand scheme of things. I think Adobe say 750,000 developers (I assume they mean certified) in the world. That is NOTHING. And the *only* reason why is price. Every time I've shown someone CF they've emptied their bowels with excitement over how easy it is to do so much, but then you tell them the price and anything that still remained has just soiled your carpet.

Microsoft ASP.NET is free. In my opinion it's nowhere near as good, but MS bods would no doubt argue. Visual Studio Express 2008 is a great little IDE, and they give it away free. They give away SQLExpress free, SSMSE free. Oracle even give away Oracle XE for free, as well as SQL Developer. MySQL is free.

Microsoft have also just launched their WebsiteSpark programme, whereby small businesses are entitled to a free license of Server 2008 and SQL Server 2008 for the next three years; why would any business choose to pay £1000 or even £4500 for a CF license when they can get that?

Telling someone how much CF costs and now having to tell them that they *charge* for an IDE?! That's quite frankly embarassing.

Sort it out Adobe, you're not exactly the smallest company in the world. Any money lost by dropping the prices would easily be made back up by increased sales volume.

O.

[Adam Cameron.]

Telling someone how much CF costs and now having to tell them that they *charge* for an IDE?! That's quite frankly embarassing.

Especially given the bulk of the work in creating the IDE is done by the Eclipse team (for free).

There are obviously paid-for Eclipse-based IDEs out there - Zend Studio is an obvious one - but:

1) Zend Studio is a far more polished and professional-seeming product that CFB (granted it's v7.x);

2) there is a free version of it.

I think every CF9 licence should come with some number of CFB licences.  And there should be some free variation of CFB (which doesn't have debugging, or doesn't have extensions, or has a cap on how many projects one can create, or something).

--

Adam

[Guest]

That's an excellent idea, giving it away with a purchased CF9 license. Still it would make more sense to give it away free. Seems ridiculous to charge for something so similar to Eclipse (which like everyone says) that's free. I won't be buying it.

The Zend program looks like ColdFusion Studio! Too bad it doesn't support CFML.

http://static.zend.com/topics/code-assist.png.

[Fernis]

>I think every CF9 licence should come with some number of CFB licences.

>And there should be some free variation of CFB (which doesn't have  debugging,

>or doesn't have extensions, or has a cap on how many projects  one can create, or something).

I completely agree there. What bugs me really, is how Adobe is not helping ColdFusion becoming more popular. I almost think it's better to lie "You don't need an IDE" than saying "There's an IDE but it costs hundreds per license" to a project manager unfamiliar with CF.

Let's take Finland - because I live there. 5 million people, known as a technologically advanced country, the home of Nokia, etc.

Number of software houses providing ColdFusion solutions: 1 using primarily, 1 mainly for serving old customers.

Number of software houses openly advertising "ColdFusion" as their technology: 1

Number of ColdFusion coders in those companies: approx 5 to 6.

Number of open ColdFusion positions on the national employment office's pages within the last SEVEN years: 1

On the same page, number of open (web) programmer positions with PHP in primary requirements TODAY: 45.

(These numbers are personal estimates, made by observing the Finnish ColdFusion scene since 1996 very closely. Of course, some private and in-house developers who adopted ColdFusion years ago, are not showing in these figures)

As ColdFusion has been proven to be practically dead in some snowy, cold corners of the universe, I feel strongly about issues which prevent ColdFusion from getting more popular. There's no chance in hell CF will become even a _known_ product in countries where it's already dead. It doesn't matter at all how good the technology is, if companies know there's no one to replace a coder if he quits the position.

And yet, I'm optimistic, crazy, naive, wishing I can make a difference and my living with it, because ColdFusion rules. So I bought CFB...

--

-Fernis - fernis.net - ColdFusion Developer For Hire

[claustrophon]

What bugs me really, is how Adobe is not helping ColdFusion becoming more popular. I almost think it's better to lie "You don't need an IDE" than saying "There's an IDE but it costs hundreds per license" to a project manager unfamiliar with CF.

I agree. It is stupid of Adobe to charge $299 for Coldfusion Builder (notwithstanding its inclusion of Flash Builder). Imagine a small company in the UK (where I live) who has invested in Coldfusion Server. Now the CTO has to convince the boss to shell out £1000 or so for a handful of CFBuilder licenses? Come on! Coldfusion is struggling to survive in the UK, and Adobe is not helping by charging for a standard IDE for developers to work in. Sure, there is CFEclipse, but Eclipse is not under Adobe's control and is a more general tool that (sometimes) requires hours of configuration.

Coldfusion Builder should be free!

[Adam Cameron.]

I dunno about free, but £200 is too rich for me, for what it offers.  I think £150 would be about the point at which I'd kinda roll my eyes a bit and go "all right then... go on..." and buy it.  If it was £100, I'd just buy it, I think.  After all: next to Firefox, it's the app that I use most often.

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Adam

[Guest]

Coldfusion is struggling to survive in the UK.

This is actually something I have been thinking about alot recently.  We have been looking for a CF developer for AGES over here in Switzerland.  Fact of the matter is; finding good, professionaly trained developers is extremely difficult over here, let alone finding a CF one.

If I was a startup, ColdFusion would be the last on my list of languages to use.  Why?  Licensing costs and human resources availability.  Why pay for for a language and the IDE when at least two great and cheaper options exist (PHP and ASP.NET)?  It is also easier finding .NET and PHP developers, so less headache there.

The fact that CF would be my last choice in languages to start with is kinda sad, because as a language CF would be a pretty good choice.  And thats coming from a .NET developer (up until two years ago I was only in jobs as a .NET developer)!

Then looking at it from a young developers perspective, why do I want to try and build a career in a language that fewer and fewer places seem to be using?  Im not sure what it is like for you guys in the states, but here in Switzerland and pretty much only see jobs for C++, .NET, PHP and JAVA EE.

I just still can't help but feel CF's pricing strategy is not helping gain and keep customers.

[Fernis]

It sees to be quite common for smallish european countries for CF to be almost non-existent. The situation has almost gotten worse in the past years. It's not that anyone hasn't ever heard of ColdFusion - it's worse - they *have* heard of ColdFusion, and been traumatized by some amateur coders who wrote tons of tag spaghetti for them some decade ago, making it harder to debug than Perl.

>We have been looking for a CF developer for AGES over here in  Switzerland.

What about outsourcing to a reliable partner? I'm - just as an example - handily located in Helsinki, Finland, and my calendar for spring and summer still looks quite empty.

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- Fernis - fernis.net

[ilssac]

Or, don't look for a ColdFusion Developer, but rather any good developer.  I find once you have found somebody who knows how to program they can program in just about any language.

On the other hand, you find somebody you only knows how to use the wizzards of some IDE or the other, and you aren't going to get very good code no matter the language.

[Fernis]

That's a good point form Ian. Thanks to CF9, it's now very understandable for people unfamiliar with ColdFusion, since you really don't need tags for your business logic. As a thumb rule, only some of the integration features (the most magical, special stuff in ColdFusion) needs tags - and that code you leave in .CFC components anyway, out of sight.

I also must comment on Ian's line - I find that good programmers aren't necessarily good developers. Some educated OO wizard (which I'm not) might know may beautiful things about code design, but some intelligent enough developer with kick-a$s problem solving skills could still wipe the programmer guru's butt in many areas.

I'm not disagreeing on anything Ian said, though.

-Fernis