Is ColdFusion dead, six feet under, pushing up daisies?

[TonightWeDineInHELL]

The security team here at the University seems to think ColdFusion is dead. Is it? I'm getting tired of trying to defend it. Do you have any resources to help? List of Companies perhaps?

Just so we're all on the same page, Adobe chat support's official response to this question was;

"... we don't have option for that, however if you are facing any technical issue you can contact our expert in technical team."

And calling tech support I was presented with the response;

"We can't help you. Go to the forums."

When I asked tech support to route me to a supervisor he said, "Adobe doesn't care if you discontinue use of their product" Yep. He actually said that to me

[Steve Sommers]

I'm not sure your point. Did CF offend you at some time? I'm not sure why you hold so much animosity towards a platform you have no desire or intention of using. An update on your Rialto comment, I don't know the exact morphing process that happened but Rialto is now Lucee and it is an active open-source project and is almost 100% CF compatible - minus Adobe specific features like PDF generation tags and a few others.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with WordPress, but IMHO that is a bad example as they have had their share of vulnerabilities in the last few years. While I don't have a count in front of me but more and more serious than CF. In my experience, your 1/4 the price only comes from companies that are outsourcing to less costly labor pools. That is fine for some projects but can rapidly turn into a money pit for others.

Some of your points are valid and I have another thread started voicing my opinion on a few of these and other points of mine. The difference being I'm trying to provide constructive criticism whereas I read your post as having just a destructive tone. Myself, I can't stand COBOL but I don't frequent COBOL forums posting "your dead, move to something based on post-1980 technology." Please clarity your goal.

[Capt_Obvious1]

That is a pretty ridiculous and puerile accusation, considering I still run cfmldeveloper.com and have been providing free developer hosting since 1999 and also run cflive.net, so not sure how you can claim I have animosity and have no desire or intention of using CF, quite clearly that is not true.
All I did was state some facts, which frankly are obvious to anyone who isn't living under a rock thinking CF is still the best thing since sliced bread. Guess what, the world moved on and left you behind.

I am very familiar with WordPress, far more than you by the looks of it,  I have built and host and manage numerous WordPeess sites and am fully aware of all the issues and vulnerabilities. Your comments sadly show a total lack of understanding of how the internet works as a whole. Hackers do not target apps used by less than 1% of websites, they target apps used by the largest percentage of the website. so that their attacks have the biggest impact, which is why sites that run WordPress get hacked so often, because 25% of all websites run on WordPress, and most of them are not being properly managed and updated, thus they get hacked and everybody hears about it, This is basic common sense really.
As for your claim of WordPress having more serious vulnerabilities than CF again shows a complete lack of knowledge on the subject, otherwise, you would know that any issues with WordPress usually get patched within 2 weeks.

You really need to get out from under your rock, the web has changed rather a lot in the last 10 years.

[Steve Sommers]

Sorry for the incorrect assumption about your animosity and lack of desire to use CF - I was going by the tone of your post. You are 100% correct about hacker targeting the more popular platforms and this was a key point years back when Windows was insecure and Apple (et.al.) was invulnerable based on the headlines and the claims of Apple proponents. Now that Apple caught up to MS in market share, low and behold it's not as invulnerable as the earlier claims would have you believe. I get it.

As to my qualification and lack of knowledge of the world outside of CF, you're making the same mistake I made when I assumed you didn't know CF. I do know security and I do know many other technologies (but you are right about my WordPress knowledge, I only know what I see in the headlines on that topic). While my personal preference is still CF, I understand security and other platforms quite well as my day job involves payment processing and more importantly, payment security.

Final thoughts, since the time this thread started until now, I have changed my recommendation of CF from "greatest platform out there - bar none" to "it depends." This change of opinion has nothing to do with CF capabilities, support, or even price (although CF is pricey and price may be a factor in my real reason), the main reason for my downgrade is lack of quality CF talent in the marketplace. Very disappointing.

[CyberBlog]

Coldfusion used to have a place in my heart...it was my first web development language many many many years ago. Now? Nah, it's dead. Kaput. Gone. History. It's a shame because it probably could've gone much further but with the technologies nowadays, CF isn't any faster to code in. I wouldn't recommend anyone learning it now either...I think it will honestly make you a bad programmer....It's easy to code but it's also very easy to write bad code. It's a shame.

[Carl Von Stetten]

@CyberBlog

"It's easy to code but it's also very easy to write bad code."

It's easy to write bad code in many languages.  That's not unique to ColdFusion.

Anyway, since this thread is getting quite aged, and there isn't really much benefit to future forum users in continuing the banter and arguments, I'm going to lock this thread.

-Carl V. - Moderator

[WolfShade]

Myself, I can't stand COBOL but I don't frequent COBOL forums posting "your dead, move to something based on post-1980 technology." Please clarity your goal.

Capt Oblivious is a troll.  Troll goals are quite clear.  Find a forum, preferably a target rich environment, start a thread or reply to a thread in a condescending tone, not too insulting to start, just a little bit, then gradually escalate the condescending tone and insulting rhetoric until everyone is in a tizzy.  Repeat as necessary until sheets are soaked.

Ignore the troll, don't get suckered, don't get lured in.  Eventually, trolls go away when they see that their words have no effect.

HTH,

^ _ ^

[Hi_There]

Lot's of colleges and universities use Coldfusion.  To add to what BKBK said:  Type in the Google search bar: college filetype:cfm and you will see many, many more results of sites utilizing Coldfusion.  It is far from dead.

Those making the decisions don't care how much easier Coldfusion may be to develop on or whether you are more productive with it.  They figure all development is the same.  Additionally, your server admins have to like it and want to support it.  Unfortunately, mine doesn't like it and reluctantly supports our current installation.  For them, why bother trying to get Coldfusion/Railo up and running when there are many canned flavors of LAMP stacks that are easily installed and can be developed upon. (Have you ever tried getting Railo up and running on say MAMP? MAMP takes 5 minutes. In my experience it takes days of trouble-shooting a Railo install. It's a pain and a tough sell for a server admin.)

Ironically, the recent version of Coldfusion is one of Adobe's best offerings right now.

[BKBK]

Visitor interrupts doctor rushing along the corridor,

"Doctor, doctor, is Mr. Seeyeff dead, six feet under, pushing up daisies?"

"How so? You want him to be?". The doctor hurries along.

[irvin00]

Yes, ColdFusion is dead. Just like Cobol is dead.

[TonightWeDineInHELL]

Yes Cobol is dead, but ColdFusion lives on.

[Pedro_Dodero]

Here in Australia, CF is dying a slow and painful death. There are companies that are focused on transforming CF systems into other platforms, and they are making heaps of money from that. Most clients seem to be quite happy after the migrations. Don't get em wrong, I love CF. But Adobe is just worse than Microsoft at the moment in this battle. Adobe has been restrictive, whereas MS has been quite the opposite.

I myself might leave CF behind as well.

Cheers.

[Kirill_Grishin]

Many say that it is not dead because many government / financial / insurance etc companies use it. But they also still use systems which were written in Cobol. Ask yourself another question: would you start a new project with CF? I wouldn't now (the last one I did was about 3 years ago).

Just think about - you need to have ColdFusion server installed on your development machine and on the server. It means you cannot just git-clone your project and run it. And I am not even talking about that it is not free. And that ColdFusion is not really a programming language.

[TonightWeDineInHELL]

Would I start a new project with CF?  YES. 
Why? It's not perfect, but it's the best.

I've been creating websites since 1995. I've been using CF since 2003. I've tried .Net, PHP, JS-based frameworks such as Ember and nothing is as stable, secure and quick as ColdFusion. I version my development projects when necessary and have no need for git-cloning. ColdFusion was the first of it's kind and is still the best.

FYI: All of the Security Team's objections to CF proved to be unfounded. All the research I and the Security Team found showed the same thing; CF is the most secure middle-ware available.

[bobbybro]

I've been developing websites since 1999. When I found ColdFusion, the language really spoke to me at the time because it was much easier to understand than the other app languages. Ben Forta and Ray Camden (although not the founders) had incredible vision, and their books were clear, their enthusiasm was energizing and a community came out of that. But as technology advanced, and especially when Adobe acquired ColdFusion, unfortunately, CF got pushed aside in favor of Flash at the time, which Adobe was pushing for SaaS (web apps). I think that would have panned out, but so many people and companies hate Adobe because of their belligerent leadership. Flash's efforts were obliterated by both Microsoft and Apple. And ColdFusion was left, once again like so many times in its history, as the red head step child while this war was waged.

I've been on Adobe support for products, just like you have, and have had the same run around, along with getting on a call with someone at support who has told me to "stop calling because no one cares over here" about a product - PDF forms at the time, around 2007. That was after he hung up on me 3 times. And that wasn't the only experience. What a company. They are the same ones that introduced the rent your software idea to the world. Who your standing behind should be a huge consideration for your next project.

Why would anyone want to pay the CF licensing fee? That's a very hard sell when LAMP is so close to free. And like others have said, PHP has moved on to OOP/MVC frameworks that take a once disorganized approach and make it very meaningful and modularly scalable. Our SaaS projects are a lot of fun in PHP now, although I would honestly say that I would have more fun in CF.

The argument about the Universities, NASA and Governments still using ColdFusion is laughable. These sectors are notorious for being ~ 10 years behind on the technology curve. They should be the example of where technology "isn't". But on the other hand, if you simply love ColdFusion, you might sustain a career with one of these employers, could in fact get in that corporate environment, and politically coerce them to continue on with your beloved technology. I'm sure CF is better than it's ever been. And I hope that a community continues to keep it alive. I pray that we will all see another company acquire it from Adobe, or maybe Adobe will ramp it up now that Flash is almost dead. Because CF is in fact an excellent approach in my opinion, just in the wrong hands and in competition with a lot of cost effective strong alternatives with better product support and more promise for the future.

[karma007]

‌bobbybro you obviously haven't heard of Railo. I use it on my live VPS. It is free and parses 99.9% of all CFML.

[Capt_Obvious1]

seems you are a bit out of touch, Railo is dead, has been for some time, the website doesn't even exist any longer and it is not safe to be running Railo any longer.

[karma007]

‌

ColdFusion is in use at 75 of the Fortune 100 companies:

192.com

ACD Direct

Allied Office Products

America First Credit Union

American Power Conversion

Amkor Technology

Aspen Skiing Company

AT&T Wireless

Bank of America

Bertelsmann

BMW USA

Boeing

Casio USA

Caterpillar

Chicago Bears

City of Davis, California

County of San Diego, Department of Child Support Services

Crayola

Dallas Stars

DHL

Dial Corporation

East Carolina University

eBags

Eli Lilly

eMCSaatchi

FAO Schwarz

First Union

Foot Locker

George Washington University

Georgetown University

GlobalSpec.com

Goodyear

Half.com

Hasbro

iHotelier

Inmarkets Training, Ltd.

International Speedway Corporation

InvestEdge

Jaguar Australia

Legato

The Limited

Mayo Clinic

Mayo Health Systems

Michelin

Moen

MySwitzerland.com

NASA Goddard Space Flight Center

New York Giants

New Era Cap Company

New York State Office for Technology

One World Alliance

Peace Corps

Pepsi

PGA of America

Pottery Barn

Prometheus

Quaker Oats

Roche Pharmaceuticals

Rugby Football Union

Schlumberger

Scott's Corporation

Seattle Times

United States Senate

Siemens

Simon & Schuster

SmartMoney.com

Sprint

State of New York

Symantec

Travelers

United States Olympic Committee

US Bank

The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania

[BalddogRobin]

It is getting difficult to defend CF when bugs are not fixed in a timely manner, and when they are, they aren't released.  The developers are the key to the continued success of CF.  If the availability of programmers declines, then alternate solutions will be used.  It's so frustrating because we, the developers, want to continue using CF.  Work with us, Adobe!

[ConsoleGenRL]

Myself and my current company have been using "ColdFusion" for nearly 22 years - yup since version 1.0 way back in 1995.

We use it exensively and will continue to. However I do agree that the pricing that Adobe applies compared to other products is killing it - but that's been the case at least since Macromedia owned the product.

[WolfShade]

True, dat!!  Macromedia did start the price increase.

If I remember correctly (which can be questioned), when CF Server 4.5 was released I think the price for a standard CF Server license was ~$500.  Then Macromedia bought Allaire, and I think the price was close to $800, or something like that.

Last I checked, the standard license (NO enterprise stuff) was more like $5k for an upgrade (not even the full install.. an UPGRADE.)

So, yeah, Adobe is killing ColdFusion with pricing; but the free, open source Lucee is, from what I hear, QUITE nice.

V/r,

^_^