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Coldfusion Future

New Here ,
Jun 02, 2019 Jun 02, 2019

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My client is considering buying a system that is based on Coldfusion.

How should I evaluate whether this application has had the care and feeding necessary for it to be a healthy application with a future?

What is the future of Coldfusion in general?  Has Adobe published an official roadmap (I am not interested in seeing some blog)?

What are the license fees for an application deployed on a client site?

What are some of the dependencies installed on the host computer?  (installed on a windows computer)?

Are there RPA (robotic process automation) tools that work well with Coldfusion based web pages?

I am asking the vendor these same questions but I want to do my own independent research.

What other questions should I ask the vendor?

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Community Expert ,
Jun 03, 2019 Jun 03, 2019

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A lot of these questions don't really have to do with ColdFusion, but could apply to any application.

What kind of documentation does the application have? What kind of indicators does it have for new builds, feature requests, change requests, etc? One nice thing about ColdFusion apps is that, generally, the source code is available for you to read, so you can start there. But there should also be other information, that might provide additional useful information. This is the kind of thing you can hire a consultant to do if you don't know how to do it yourself.

The future of ColdFusion looks pretty positive to me, right now. It's been around forever, and Adobe will keep selling as long as there's a market for it. There are lots of mature apps built in ColdFusion, and presumably new people are updating those apps regularly to add new features, etc. Adobe releases new versions about every eighteen months or so, and holds two conferences a year on ColdFusion. That said, server-side programming languages are pretty close to a commodity, and the leading edge of server-side development is probably around Node.js right now (or maybe even that has passed along to something else!) The thing that keeps CF around is the number of mostly internal applications written in it, and the inertia of converting them to something else. That's not really a bad thing, though.

CF doesn't really provide client-site-specific licensing fees. It costs what it costs, no matter where you install it. There's a decent amount of variation around how it's licensed in cloud environments, I guess.

It doesn't really have any dependencies, any more than any other server-side programming language. You need a database, and you optionally may want an external web server. It does come with a built-in web server which may be sufficient for what you need.

I'm not sure what you mean by "RPA". Do you mean screen scrapers? It doesn't matter what server-side language you use to build web pages, they all generate HTML and you can interact with them through any HTML client you like. But ideally you'd build an API and interact with that instead. CF lets you build APIs pretty easily using a variety of data formats.

I would ask the vendor for documented change history for the application, to let you know whether it's been maintained frequently. If it's worth the effort, I'd also ask a consultant who's familiar with CF to review the application code and change history, and let you know what he or she thinks of the application. We're probably talking about two to four hours of time, depending on the complexity of the application. Not to toot my own horn, but I can do this. But lots of other people can do this as well. Charlie Arehart comes to mind - he does this sort of thing all the time. I can come up with other people who can do this, or you can take a look at people who respond to things on this forum and come up with a list yourself.

Dave Watts, Eidolon LLC

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Community Expert ,
Jun 06, 2019 Jun 06, 2019

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New Here ,
Jun 06, 2019 Jun 06, 2019

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This is a good answer, but the roadmap is from 2017.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 06, 2019 Jun 06, 2019

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The roadmap covers up to 2020 for active development and 2025 for product support, so I think it's probably the most up-to-date version. That doesn't mean they're not going to continue upgrading ColdFusion. I'm sure they will as long as there is still a market for it, and I don't see that going anywhere over the next few years at least. The important thing to me is that they continue to release new versions every 18 months to two years, which they've been doing for a while.

Dave Watts, Eidolon LLC

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New Here ,
Jun 06, 2019 Jun 06, 2019

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The problem I am facing is the software I am buying needs at least a 10-year solid horizon on it.  This is an insurance package and will be integrated into everything we do.

Regarding this:

"I'm sure they will as long as there is still a market for it, and I don't see that going anywhere over the next few years at least."

"Next few years":

This is an insurance package and will be integrated into everything we do.  I need the software to have a solid 10-year horizon without being neglected.  Maintaining the status quo on product development is considered neglect; they need to have a roadmap of enhancements.

"as long as there is still a market for it":  If they don't lay out a roadmap and communicate it to the community then it will go into a death spiral.  People won't buy it because it is not enhanced.  Adobe won't enhanced it because no one is buying it. 

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Community Expert ,
Jun 06, 2019 Jun 06, 2019

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I've been working with ColdFusion for many years, since version 1.5 which ran on Windows NT 3.51. ColdFusion has been around since 1995. I think it's probably as safe a bet as you're going to get for a mature, proprietary language that it will be around for another ten years. Ten years ago, quite a few people thought it would be long gone by now. Ten years before that, quite a few people thought it would have been gone ten years ago. Today, enough people are interested in it that Adobe is able to hold a conference on each coast every year. But I'm not going to commit to saying that ColdFusion - or any other software product - is going to be around in ten years, no matter how many "roadmaps" I see. The world of web development is a really dangerous place to be if you're concerned about a "ten-year horizon".

ColdFusion roadmaps come out every couple of versions. That's about par for the course, and I think Adobe's doing more of that now than they used to do. They can only do so much prediction as to what features people will want more than one or two versions in advance, at best.

And roadmap or no, anyone who guarantees a product will exist for more than three years is either an idiot or a liar. I have a bunch of "roadmaps" from all kinds of enterprise software companies that can double as toilet paper since the products didn't stick around as long as the roadmaps said they would.

Dave Watts, Eidolon LLC

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Community Expert ,
Jun 06, 2019 Jun 06, 2019

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pottmi  wrote

This is a good answer, but the roadmap is from 2017.

Are you expecting a roadmap for 2018, a roadmap for 2019, one for 2020, and so on? In my experience, roadmaps aren't published from year to year.

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New Here ,
Jun 06, 2019 Jun 06, 2019

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I would expect a new road map on the same cadence as they do a new release.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 07, 2019 Jun 07, 2019

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Setting aside my rant about roadmaps from earlier - I've been burned too many times by overpromising vendors, I guess - ColdFusion is largely aimed at a different market segment. Instead of being on the leading edge of new features, they tend to be on the trailing edge, and their goal is to make those features easy to use for developers with lower skill levels. So, you're not going to see roadmaps talking about whatever developers want to do in two years, because they don't know what those features will be. Instead, they add new features after they've been introduced to the larger developer community, and make them easier to use.

Meanwhile, I'd be interested in server-side scripting products where you think the roadmaps are pretty useful, as a contrast. You mentioned Java - which has historically been an ... overly difficult ... language for web development. Most Java web development projects exist specifically to make it less difficult - templating languages, etc. Java as a language is far more popular than ColdFusion, because it's a general-purpose programming language. It's not limited to web development.

I agree that there isn't much going on with on-premise user groups. I used to manage a few of these in the DC area, way back when. But they basically fell victim to the simple fact that everything is online now. The primary purpose of on-premise user groups now is to network and get some free booze. But that doesn't mean that no one's doing CF development. And one nice thing about CF development is that it's a lot easier to learn CF than to learn Java. So, if you have CF applications to manage, you don't really have to look for CF developers. You can just look for developers, teach them CF - I used to do this quite a bit - and you'll get good performance from them as long as you have a couple of experienced CF developers around. You can get that kind of mentoring experience very nicely with remote consultants nowadays.

Dave Watts, Eidolon LLC

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New Here ,
Jun 07, 2019 Jun 07, 2019

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Java - which has historically been an ... overly difficult ... language for web development.

Yup, that is why if the system was Java I would have a whole other set of concerns.  "Overly Difficult"?  that is still an understatement.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 07, 2019 Jun 07, 2019

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pottmi  wrote

Java - which has historically been an ... overly difficult ... language for web development.

Yup, that is why if the system was Java I would have a whole other set of concerns.  "Overly Difficult"?  that is still an understatement.

I'm just trying to be a nice person.

But it seems like you're really expecting too much here, for your ten-year horizon. That's just not going to happen. If you buy a well-architected product from one company using one language, it will be possible to rewrite it in another language using the same basic structure. That's the only way you're going to be able to guarantee a ten-year anything.

Dave Watts, Eidolon LLC

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New Here ,
Jun 06, 2019 Jun 06, 2019

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Advise your client to base his or her system on analysis, design and architecture. Not on any specific programming language or server technology.

Of course, we are considering design and architecture.  In addition, we are considering the backend database, language, UI appeal, and host operating system.

10 years ago I went to a ColdFusion user group.  There were only 10 people there.  That group has since disbanded.  That alone is no reason to assume a language is dying, but it is a reason to dig deeper to see the longevity of the language.


So far it seems ColdFusion has a future, but it is far from conclusive.

The popularity of a language is far from a single factor for me; for instance, if the application was written in Java (quite popular), I would have a different set of questions.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 06, 2019 Jun 06, 2019

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My client is considering buying a system that is based on Coldfusion.

Advise your client to base his or her system on analysis, design and architecture. Not on any specific programming language or server technology.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 07, 2019 Jun 07, 2019

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BKBK  wrote

My client is considering buying a system that is based on Coldfusion.

Advise your client to base his or her system on analysis, design and architecture. Not on any specific programming language or server technology.

^^^ this.

Dave Watts, Eidolon LLC

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