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Oracle Form VS Coldfusion - Database Oracle. Winner ?
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/t5/coldfusion-discussions/oracle-form-vs-coldfusion-database-oracle-winner/td-p/198908
Sep 19, 2007
Sep 19, 2007
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Hi,
I'm currently using DB MSSQL Server and interface using Coldfusion 7.0 to run my web system application
we are upgrading our database to Oracle 10g.
since we're buying the whole package of oracle... that include Oracle Form ( for interface application development by oracle ), my department had a discussion on migrating the interface to oracle.
well since i don';t have the experinence on oracle form and i REALLY REALLY prefer coldfusion, is there any way that i can present my issues and prove that using coldfusion is the best way than oracle form?
please give me a suggestion on this issues?
1. is coldfusion is more better that oracle form when using oracle DB?
2. does anyone have the experience on migrating from coldfusion to oracle form? any performance issues?
3. the importtant thing? what should i tell my department on " why we should use coldfusion for interface"
4. if can, please gimme a link to articel or website that discuss these issues...
to macromedia/adobe employee please help me to clarify this thing, since we will not using any of your product anymore if i cannot convince my department on using coldfusion anymore... no coldfusion, no dreamweaver and then no macromedia studio anymore...
thanks a lot guys...
I'm currently using DB MSSQL Server and interface using Coldfusion 7.0 to run my web system application
we are upgrading our database to Oracle 10g.
since we're buying the whole package of oracle... that include Oracle Form ( for interface application development by oracle ), my department had a discussion on migrating the interface to oracle.
well since i don';t have the experinence on oracle form and i REALLY REALLY prefer coldfusion, is there any way that i can present my issues and prove that using coldfusion is the best way than oracle form?
please give me a suggestion on this issues?
1. is coldfusion is more better that oracle form when using oracle DB?
2. does anyone have the experience on migrating from coldfusion to oracle form? any performance issues?
3. the importtant thing? what should i tell my department on " why we should use coldfusion for interface"
4. if can, please gimme a link to articel or website that discuss these issues...
to macromedia/adobe employee please help me to clarify this thing, since we will not using any of your product anymore if i cannot convince my department on using coldfusion anymore... no coldfusion, no dreamweaver and then no macromedia studio anymore...
thanks a lot guys...
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/t5/coldfusion-discussions/oracle-form-vs-coldfusion-database-oracle-winner/m-p/198909#M17856
Sep 20, 2007
Sep 20, 2007
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Up front caveat * : I've never used Oracle forms.....
.... but this sounds like a significant business decision change, so I would hope your business owners/leaders would have already reviewed the ramifications (cost, downtime-headaches of conversion, maintenance costs, developer costs, ROI, etc.) before randomly switching database platforms, and potentially application servers. Without knowing much else, I'd have to say one of the biggest benefits you could offer to your employer(s) is that ColdFusion not only talks to Oracle nicely (they're both built on Java) but you'll be able to support SQL Server as well (and just as effectively). Legacy is always an issue..... On top of that, there isn't any other technology out there currently that will handle multiple technology/platform functionality in the same page request (in one page CF can process SQL/Oracle queries (even merge them using query of queries) from .asp, .jsp, .php, etc.
You'd only be closing doors by leaving ColdFusion, hardly opening any new ones. But again, I'd hope greater business minds than ours would have already considered this.
Good luck!
.... but this sounds like a significant business decision change, so I would hope your business owners/leaders would have already reviewed the ramifications (cost, downtime-headaches of conversion, maintenance costs, developer costs, ROI, etc.) before randomly switching database platforms, and potentially application servers. Without knowing much else, I'd have to say one of the biggest benefits you could offer to your employer(s) is that ColdFusion not only talks to Oracle nicely (they're both built on Java) but you'll be able to support SQL Server as well (and just as effectively). Legacy is always an issue..... On top of that, there isn't any other technology out there currently that will handle multiple technology/platform functionality in the same page request (in one page CF can process SQL/Oracle queries (even merge them using query of queries) from .asp, .jsp, .php, etc.
You'd only be closing doors by leaving ColdFusion, hardly opening any new ones. But again, I'd hope greater business minds than ours would have already considered this.
Good luck!
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Advocate
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/t5/coldfusion-discussions/oracle-form-vs-coldfusion-database-oracle-winner/m-p/198910#M17857
Sep 20, 2007
Sep 20, 2007
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Um, Oracle isn't built on Java. You can talk to it through
standard JDBC, but Oracle itself is not written in Java. I'm not
sure based on your wording what you exactly meant by that.
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/t5/coldfusion-discussions/oracle-form-vs-coldfusion-database-oracle-winner/m-p/198912#M17859
Sep 20, 2007
Sep 20, 2007
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I stand corrected, the last thing I want is to spread invalid
info!
I think what I meant to say is that Oracle (like IBM) is a big proponent of Java, and a lot of the tools out there are accessible via Java.
Thanks for setting the record (and me) straight :-)
Rich
I think what I meant to say is that Oracle (like IBM) is a big proponent of Java, and a lot of the tools out there are accessible via Java.
Thanks for setting the record (and me) straight :-)
Rich
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/t5/coldfusion-discussions/oracle-form-vs-coldfusion-database-oracle-winner/m-p/198913#M17860
Sep 20, 2007
Sep 20, 2007
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We had a legacy Oracle Forms client app that was last updated
under Develper 6i, which is an Oracle 8.x client platform, and was
no longer supported by Oracle (10gR2). So, we either had to migrate
it to the server version of Forms (ugh), or replace it. That was a
no brainer for me, since it was much simpler just to recode the
entire GUI in ColdFusion. It ended up using over 300 CF pages, and
a few hunderd PL/SQL stored procedures, but it was worth it since
now we are web based and much less dependant on a proprietary
interface that is not considered as "standard" by my employer.
Phil
Phil
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LEGEND
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/t5/coldfusion-discussions/oracle-form-vs-coldfusion-database-oracle-winner/m-p/198911#M17858
Sep 20, 2007
Sep 20, 2007
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I am not involved in any way with the decision process and I
came on
board with this organization just recently. But I am aware that we are
currently having a HUGE headache getting our legacy Oracle Forms
application to run on our new 10G server. As I understand it we had to
convert our 4x generation application to an 8x implementation before it
could be converted to 10G. Unfortunately the only person with
experience and knowledge on this process left before it was completed.
We are considering the possibility of just re-writing the application in
CF as that would probably be just as fast as teaching somebody all the
ins and outs of the Oracle Forms technology.
board with this organization just recently. But I am aware that we are
currently having a HUGE headache getting our legacy Oracle Forms
application to run on our new 10G server. As I understand it we had to
convert our 4x generation application to an 8x implementation before it
could be converted to 10G. Unfortunately the only person with
experience and knowledge on this process left before it was completed.
We are considering the possibility of just re-writing the application in
CF as that would probably be just as fast as teaching somebody all the
ins and outs of the Oracle Forms technology.
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haire
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/t5/coldfusion-discussions/oracle-form-vs-coldfusion-database-oracle-winner/m-p/198914#M17861
Sep 20, 2007
Sep 20, 2007
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thank for the suggestion...
i'm surely agree with you in this statement " On top of that, there isn't any other technology out there currently that will handle multiple technology/platform functionality in the same page request " . this is one of coldfusion advantage...
and in the scope of migrating DB version, coldfusion does not have any problem since it does not care about any DB version as long the datasource can connect to that db and the table structure is the same...
that is cool....
thanks again...
i'm surely agree with you in this statement " On top of that, there isn't any other technology out there currently that will handle multiple technology/platform functionality in the same page request " . this is one of coldfusion advantage...
and in the scope of migrating DB version, coldfusion does not have any problem since it does not care about any DB version as long the datasource can connect to that db and the table structure is the same...
that is cool....
thanks again...
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/t5/coldfusion-discussions/oracle-form-vs-coldfusion-database-oracle-winner/m-p/198915#M17862
Sep 21, 2007
Sep 21, 2007
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Since I'm using PL/SQL stored procedures exclusively, all of
my SQL is in Oracle, not ColdFusion, and I use no cfquery tags....
totally cfstoredproc. There are a couple of advantages to doing it
this way. Some of these are:
1. Front end independence. If I decide to use a different GUI I can reuse the same stored procedures that I call from ColdFusion and I don't have to create a whole new set of SQL.
2. Distributed development. One group can concentrate on the database and SQL parts, while another can focus on the GUI. Put your database experts where they are most effective, and remove that burden from your GUI experts. Developers can then communicate through a defined API spec.
3. Modularity
4. Security. You can create a user account in Oracle that only has execute privileges on the packages that contain your stored procedures. You use that ID for your ColdFusion DSN so that your database can be protected from any functionality, activity, or SQL that is not provided for specifically in your stored procedures. In other words, the only thing that this account (schema) allows is for you to call specific stored proceedures for which you have been granted the execute privilege. DBAs tend to like this, as it allows much more control of your database than allowing the access to your database objects that you would need to provide if your SQL was called from cfquery tags in CF.
Of course, you can do the same thing with Oracle Forms.... in fact, if you used PL/SQL stored procedures for Forms you may be able to use the same procs for CF, but you get the idea.
Phil
1. Front end independence. If I decide to use a different GUI I can reuse the same stored procedures that I call from ColdFusion and I don't have to create a whole new set of SQL.
2. Distributed development. One group can concentrate on the database and SQL parts, while another can focus on the GUI. Put your database experts where they are most effective, and remove that burden from your GUI experts. Developers can then communicate through a defined API spec.
3. Modularity
4. Security. You can create a user account in Oracle that only has execute privileges on the packages that contain your stored procedures. You use that ID for your ColdFusion DSN so that your database can be protected from any functionality, activity, or SQL that is not provided for specifically in your stored procedures. In other words, the only thing that this account (schema) allows is for you to call specific stored proceedures for which you have been granted the execute privilege. DBAs tend to like this, as it allows much more control of your database than allowing the access to your database objects that you would need to provide if your SQL was called from cfquery tags in CF.
Of course, you can do the same thing with Oracle Forms.... in fact, if you used PL/SQL stored procedures for Forms you may be able to use the same procs for CF, but you get the idea.
Phil
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haire
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/t5/coldfusion-discussions/oracle-form-vs-coldfusion-database-oracle-winner/m-p/198916#M17863
Sep 21, 2007
Sep 21, 2007
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thanks for the advice phil,
for the current system, we're also using stored procedure in mssql, and it is the same as in when migrating to oracle db.
i'm concern over the performance. anyone has the experience changing the interface from using Coldfusion to Oracle Form, or from Oracle Form to Coldfusion
in Oracle DB?
should Oracle Form outclass Coldfusion since it is a component for oracle DB?
maybe upgrading Oracle DB version might be a problem for Oracle Form to work properly... anything else?
thanks for the advice...
haire
for the current system, we're also using stored procedure in mssql, and it is the same as in when migrating to oracle db.
i'm concern over the performance. anyone has the experience changing the interface from using Coldfusion to Oracle Form, or from Oracle Form to Coldfusion
in Oracle DB?
should Oracle Form outclass Coldfusion since it is a component for oracle DB?
maybe upgrading Oracle DB version might be a problem for Oracle Form to work properly... anything else?
thanks for the advice...
haire
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/t5/coldfusion-discussions/oracle-form-vs-coldfusion-database-oracle-winner/m-p/198917#M17864
Sep 21, 2007
Sep 21, 2007
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Changing Oracle versions can always present a problem with
existing apps, whatever the platform. A perfect example of that is
the fact that my Developer 6i forms are no longer supported by
Oracle (and really haven't been since 9i). Migrate or die, so to
speak.
Also, performance has a lot to do with the design of both interfaces. There are instances where my ColdFusion code runs circles around my old Forms code simply because the original designers of the Forms included the PL/SQL within the Forms, which required data to be moved to the client and then SELECTed there, which was a big problem with BIG tables. The stored procedures called by ColdFusion perform the queries on the host instead of the client, so execution time is MUCH better. etc. If your Forms are designed to call stored procedures and return the results to the client rather than executing the queries within Forms, then it can also be very efficient. Of course, we were running a client version of forms, so current version of forms that execute on a web serve are probably more efficient.
Phil
Also, performance has a lot to do with the design of both interfaces. There are instances where my ColdFusion code runs circles around my old Forms code simply because the original designers of the Forms included the PL/SQL within the Forms, which required data to be moved to the client and then SELECTed there, which was a big problem with BIG tables. The stored procedures called by ColdFusion perform the queries on the host instead of the client, so execution time is MUCH better. etc. If your Forms are designed to call stored procedures and return the results to the client rather than executing the queries within Forms, then it can also be very efficient. Of course, we were running a client version of forms, so current version of forms that execute on a web serve are probably more efficient.
Phil
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haire
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/t5/coldfusion-discussions/oracle-form-vs-coldfusion-database-oracle-winner/m-p/198918#M17865
Oct 08, 2007
Oct 08, 2007
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thanks for the advice paross
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