Urgent update- Support for Azul OpenJDK

[Saurav_Ghosh]

On the 16th of June, we'd announced support for Azul OpenJDK for ColdFusion going forward and we'd also posted a blog.

We have a breaking update for you all regarding the migration.

Our planned roll out of Coldfusion installers with Azul Zulu JDK has been put on hold. We will continue with our regular update cycles for now with Oracle JDK.

We expect to provide further updates on the Java migration by December 2021.

If you have questions (we know you do), please use this thread. We shall respond ASAP.

[Charlie Arehart]

Wow, indeed. But where does that put things, with regard to everything ELSE in the prerelease (with its new installers for CF2021 and 2018, new updates for CF2021 and 2018, updates for CFBuilder, and more)? 

Is it that you'll roll all that out still with support for Azul? Or will you need to pull all the Azul-related changes out, but still proceed with the new installers and updates?

To be clear, the new installers not only were changing to support Azul but also to a) roll in all previous updates (especially important for CF2018), b) update both CF2021 and 2018 to run on Java 11.0.11  (vs they 11.0.1 that even CF2021 came out with), and c) update Tomcat to 9.0.43, aong other things.

While you may be choosing proceed with only the updates for CF2021 and 2018 (and without the Azul support, if that's what all this means), my point is that the updates alone wouldn't solve the other problems I just mentioned--or would they somehow?

Then there's the new installer for CF to support MacOS Big Sur. (It's also unclear from the prerelease if the new CFBuilder 2018 installer there was ALSO adding support for Big Sur.)

So again, please clarify what this change means with regard to what all ELSE is in the prerelease--which I'd just blogged about with more info, for those who have not yet checked it out: Lots more to the current CF2021, 2018 prerelease than folks may realize

[BKBK]

So, if you were on ColdFusion 2018 or 2021, could you go ahead with Oracle JDK 11.0.11?

[Charlie Arehart]

BKBK, to be clear, one can "go ahead with Oracle JDK 11.0.11" right now, with CF2021 or 2018 (if on CF2018's update 2 or later, or even on CF2016 if on its update 8 or later--those are the updates that added Java 11 support for those CF versions). 

What was SUPPOSED to change was that we'd be expected to change to using Azul (after applying CF2021 update 2 or CF2018 update 12--those which are now in prerelease). But it's THAT Azul support which is now on hold.

So bottom line: yes, everyone on CF2021 and 2018 should be using Oracle Java 11.0.11 (the current latest release of Java 11, and which is the current latest LTS release of Oracle Java). If it interests anyone, I have a post with a table of CF versions and what JVM versions they formally support.

I do realize you may have been wanting to hear from Adobe instead. If there's anything about what I've said that needs any clarification, I'm open to feedback from anyone. In all this, I'm just trying to help us all "move the ball down the field".

[BKBK]

Charlie, thanks for your reply. I just needed confirmation that Oracle JDK 11.0.11 is the latest. I asked because I saw that Oracle JDK 11.0.12 is already in the pipeline.

[Asif5EFB]

1

[BKBK]

Adobe's update in the blog needs repeating here:

"Our planned roll out of ColdFusion support of the Azul Zulu OpenJDK (including new CF installers) has been put on hold. We will continue for now with our regular update cycles, supporting the Oracle JVM (JDK or JRE).

We expect to provide further updates on Java support changes by December 2021."

[Charlie Arehart]

Curious to hear why you felt that needed to be repeated. It's the same info Saurav said in his post here. It seems you see things otherwise?

[BKBK]

Ah, yes. On second thoughts, that sounds a bit zen. Unintentionally. It could do with some detail. 🙂

I added it further to my own question,

"could you go ahead with Oracle JDK 11.0.11?"

and remark,

"I asked because I saw that Oracle JDK 11.0.12 is already in the pipeline"

having just seen that Java SE 11.0.12 (LTS) is now available for use in ColdFusion 2018 and 2021.

[Charlie Arehart]

To clarify, yes java 11.0.12 (and 1.8.0_301) came out on July 20.

And Fwiw, Adobe would have supported your moving to them as soon as they came out. We don't NEED to wait for them to post the download. They're the same binaries Oracle offers (which binary includes the identical license), if someone may want to move to them sooner.

But none of that really explains why you felt the need to repeat the point about the change regarding Azul support. And in any case, none of my comment is really advancing that point, so let's leave the beaten horse to lie. 🙂 

[BKBK]

But none of that really explains why you felt the need to repeat the point about the change regarding Azul support. 

By @Charlie Arehart

As I said, I expected there to be a repetition of the point, with clear mention of the current and impending Java versions, 11.0.11 and 11.0.12. Adobe didn't officially add that information. You did.

To clarify, yes java 11.0.12 (and 1.8.0_301) came out on July 20.

And Fwiw, Adobe would have supported your moving to them as soon as they came out. We don't NEED to wait for them to post the download. They're the same binaries Oracle offers (which binary includes the identical license), if someone may want to move to them sooner.

I would disagree. When Oracle updates Java to a new minor or patched LTS version, say, from 11.0.11 to 11.0.12, I don't think you should upgrade ColdFusion's Java immediately. You may do so in your test environment, of course. But not on production.

ColdFusion is itself a Java application. It is susceptible to changes in the Java engine. Appearance of the download link on the ColdFusion Downloads site is confirmation to me that Adobe's ColdFusion Team has:

1. studied the release notes of the latest Java version;
2. made any necessary changes in ColdFusion;
3. tested ColdFusion with the new Java release.    

[Charlie Arehart]

Believe that if you prefer. I do not agree, to be clear.

Adobe has long had the policy that they support us being on the latest JVM version of whatever JVM is supported by our CF version. So that means that for CF2021, one can go to any Oracle Java 11 update when it comes out (same with CF2018, and then 2016 and earlier, where what JVM version CF supports depends on what CF updates have been applied).

Yes, I realize that since early 2019 (with the change to Oracle licensing), they did ALSO now offer the Java installers on the CF downloads page. You are reading that as an indication of "when Adobe feels the new update is ready". I see it merely as when they are finally made aware of the update and get it posted--simple as that. I don't believe there's ANY specific "testing" of the JVM update for compatibity with CF.

I have never once heard (since these jvm uploads started to be posted there) that an update ws being held up because of incompatibility. (Could it have been? I suppose. But I really think we'd have heard about it.)

The ONLY counter to getting the Java installers "sooner" from Oracle has been the assertion made by some that somehow the binaries on the Adobe site were DIFFERENT from those on the Oracle site--with the implication that those on the Adobe site were "properly licensed by Adobe" . But as I have said above (and said elsewhere), the binaries are nearly always binary identical (when they are indeed the same version, and not differing due to some minor JVM change, where the Oracle ones are just a bit more updates than the same numbered verison on the Adobe site.)

So anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. I leave this for others who may find this discussion interesting. I suspect many feel it to be merely tiresome. 

(Again, it's still unclear what any of this has to do with what you quoted/re-posted from their blog post in your comment of July 31. It made no mention of Java versions, at all. If you mean you wanted it to, ok. That was not at all clear. Hopefully it is now, to any interested.)

[BKBK]

I take it for granted Adobe follows a procedure similar to the 3 steps I mentioned in my last post. If they don't, they should. It is best-practice.

A case in point, to illustrate. Charlie, you yourself were involved in a recent drama caused by a Java update in ColdFusion 2021 from Java 11.0.10 to Java 11.0.11.
( https://community.adobe.com/t5/coldfusion/coldfusion-2021-conflict-between-sandbox-security-and-java... )

That was a report that the update had broken ColdFusion's Sandbox Security. Your recommendation was for the developer to apply a JVM flag introduced in the newer Java version:

(I've confirmed experiencing the same issue, that CF won't start if running Java 11.0.11 with CF Sandbox Security enabled.) The workaround is to add this JVM argument to the CF startup args (in CF's jvm.config or the java args in the CF Admin), and then restart CF):

-Djdk.lang.Process.allowAmbiguousCommands=true

As for what led me to even consider that, you can see it's new for Java 11.0.11 specifically, and it's purpose discussed briefly as one of the "other notes" in the release notes for Java 11.0.11. You'll see also that it's specific to when a Java "security manager" is enabled.

By @Charlie Arehart

That seemed to get Sandbox Security working again. However, the issue's reporter later added,

"Since I last posted that CF2021 was working with Java 11.0.11 with the Java argumen -Djdk.lang.Process.allowAmbiguousCommands=true, things have changed. With that setup, I could not run the CF Lockdown program, as it said this version of Cold Fusion is not supported."

In the meantime, Priyank Shrivastava, a member of the Adobe ColdFusion Team, had opened a ticket internally for the issue. Priyank and Team identified the cause (" related to ODBC") and duly developed a patch.

The moral of this whole episode is clear.

[Charlie Arehart]

Oh, Alfred.

If you insist.

[Ledham5EB9]

Je cherche mon application la banque postale qui a disparue de mon téléphone portable. Aidez-moi à la retrouver.

[Charlie Arehart]

I don't see a connection between your postal mobile app and the topic of this post. Did you mean to ask elsewhere? See community.adobe.com for other product forums. 

[carl type3]

Hello Saurav,

Any information update that relates to this "We expect to provide further updates on the Java migration by December 2021"? 

Regards, Carl.

[carl type3]

Hello Saurav,

December 2021 is behind us now. Any information update that relates to this "We expect to provide further updates on the Java migration by December 2021"? 

Regards, Carl.

[carl type3]

Hello Saurav,

Still wondering if there is an update to Azul announcement? 

Thanks, Carl

[Priyank Shrivastava.]

Hi Carl,

As of now, this is on hold and we are continuing with Oracle JDK until we get the approval to start the testing. 

We will update the thread. 

[BKBK]

Thanks for the update, @Priyank Shrivastava. .