Adobe CMYK versus Pantone CMYK

Report · Nov 18, 2019

Hi,

I've used the Adobe Color App to select a brand palette with a new client; usually I use my Pantone Color Bridge swatch book.

Logo development and supporting core elements all fine, however ...

setting the right CMYK conversions has been a nightmare.

Simply, the Adobe Color App CMYK specs for coated stock are totally different to both the hard copy Pantone Color Bridge Book and the Pantone website.

Example here (Pantone site top left, Adobe Color bottom right screen grabs)..

So, what's going on here?

Which source to trust?

Report · Nov 18, 2019

Hi

I an ideal world you'd use the ACTUAL CMYK profile that’s used by your print providers and spec in Lab color. Maybe it's ISOcoated_V2_eci or some flavor of GRACoL if you're on coated stock.

The Pantone system is all about "spot color" that uses special Pantone inks on press as a 4th [or 5th etc] color in addition to CMYK - from wajht tyou've written it seems you are wanting to make up "sample" colours from CMYK inks, right? If that’s the case, better know poperly what the CMYK ink mixes are, for the actual print condition.

Here's some background info:

https://www.colourmanagement.net/advice/about-icc-colour-profiles/

https://www.colourmanagement.net/advice/press/

I hope this helps

if so, please "like" my reply and if you're OK now, please mark it as "correct", so that others who have similar issues can see the solution

thanks

neil barstow, colourmanagement.net

Report · Nov 18, 2019

Thanks, that's very helpful.

The reason I factor CMYK in branding is to ensure the client is aware of the narrower gamut at the outset. I learnt many years ago (with a client whose primary colour was Pantone 021?!) how expensive it can be to run a 5th plate.

That's why I use the hard copy colour bridge book (and swore by the CMYK stats quoted therein), and it was acceptably close for many print jobs over the years.

My main concern is ... where are the CMYK Coated stats coming from in this new Pantone feature in Adobe Color? They are clearly not the current Pantone published stats; so, are Adobe doing their own Colorimeter work?

But also, as the whole process is so dependent on output profiles, is there really any use in putting CMYK breakdowns in the first place?

Report · Nov 19, 2019

"as the whole process is so dependent on output profiles, is there really any use in putting CMYK breakdowns in the first place?"

That's the wrong question, it's the other way round. CMYK numbers is the only way that makes sense - provided the profile is specified.

A CMYK profile isn't an abstract synthetic profile like the RGB working space profiles. It's a very specific characterization of a particular print process, a certain press (calibrated to a certain standard), using certain inks on a certain paper.

The profile is where the wheels hit the dirt. That's where numbers point directly to colors.

Lab is an alternative, but gives no protection against out-of-gamut colors, which is a very real consideration in offset print. In any case you still have to feed the Lab numbers into an output CMYK profile.

Report · Nov 19, 2019

Thanks, I think I'm starting to get it ....

So, the workflow is something like this? ...

1- Check hard copy CMYK Chip to check it's not too out of gamut (oranges etc.)

2- Ignore Adobe Color published coated CMYK stats (as they don't stipulate the precise press/paper they are generated for)

3- Use the LaB stats.

4- Generate the CMYK breakdown - with LaB - in Illustrator/Indesign etc., with appropriate print supplier profile (in this case Fogra39).

Is that right?

Thanks for taking the time to help me understand.

Report · Nov 19, 2019

Hi

Kinnell90125

an hour ago

Thanks, I think I'm starting to get it ....

So, the workflow is something like this? ...

1- Check hard copy CMYK Chip to check it's not too out of gamut (oranges etc.)

2- Ignore Adobe Color published coated CMYK stats (as they don't stipulate the precise press/paper they are generated for)

3- Use the LaB stats.

4- Generate the CMYK breakdown - with LaB - in Illustrator/Indesign etc., with appropriate print supplier profile (in this case Fogra39).

Is that right?

Thanks for taking the time to help me understand.

That sounds about right.

Ideally to get the ink recipe as good as can be you are correct that you need a CMYK breakdown for F39L, entering good Lab numbers in Photoshop etc. will make that Lab > CMYK conversion for you. Use Absolute Colorimetric rendering intent for this, you may have to temporarily set that in Photoshop's - edit/color settings [make sure that dialog's set to ISO coated F39L as well of course]..

Let us know how much those new CMYK numbers differ from the ones you were usiung with reasobanle success previously.

I hope this helps

if so, please "like" my reply and if you're OK now, please mark it as "correct", so that others who have similar issues can see the solution

thanks

neil barstow, colourmanagement.net

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