Colour difference dilemma

[WeezyLamb]

Hoping someone has a quick fix for me - On the left you see the PDF I have created opened with Preview, this is also the colour which the document prints in and matches the RGB/CMKY/Pantone colour codes correctly.  On the right you see how I see the colours in Illustrator (Photoshop is the same) which is way off  - I obviously need to be working with the correct output colours displaying and nothing I do seems to rectify this issue...

Thanks in advance!

PS - working on a MacBook Air

[D Fosse]

Pardon me, but it seems to me there's bigger fish to fry than a miniscule chip of deep cyans that you will most likely never notice. I'd worry much more about the colors that definitely will clip the other way, going from Adobe RGB to any print profile.

Sometimes I get the impression there's a competition to get as much saturation as theoretically possible. But that never made a good image. Good color is about relationships, not total saturation.

I assume you all have wide gamut monitors. Pull up any colorful image and feel free to crank up the saturation as much as you like. Now - would any of you honestly say there's not enough color?

[rob day]

Sometimes I get the impression there's a competition to get as much saturation as theoretically possible. But that never made a good image. Good color is about relationships, not total saturation.

That's completely subjective. Why should digital imagery or art be limited to traditional photographic aesthetics?

[TheDigitalDog]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/rob+day  wrote

Sometimes I get the impression there's a competition to get as much saturation as theoretically possible. But that never made a good image. Good color is about relationships, not total saturation.

That's completely subjective. Why should digital imagery or art be limited to traditional photographic aesthetics?

ICC profiles know nothing about images or color in context. They only know about an individual color pixel and nothing whatsoever about any adjacent pixels. There's nothing subjective about ICC color management because it's based on color perception, not color appearance.

Colorimetry and the dE testing and the creation of profiles is about color perception. It is not about color appearance. The reason why viewing a print is more valid than measuring it is because measurement is about comparing solid colors. Color appearance is about evaluating images and color in context which measurement devices can't provide. Colorimetry was never designed as a color appearance model. It was never designed to even be used as an interchange space between device dependent color models. It's not designed for imagery at all. Colorimetry based on solid  colors in very specific ambient and surround conditions.

[rob day]

This was the subjective part: "But that never made a good image. Good color is about relationships, not total saturation."

[D Fosse]

Yes, it's subjective. But it's my honest opinion and I stand by it.

[cyclopsdx]

What do the more experienced contributors on this thread suggest as best practice in this scenario?

I receive Illustrator and Photoshop files from clients in America and Japan using embedded U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2 and Japan 2001 Coated, respectively.

I have to reformat these files for use in 3 individual client-supplied templates which ultimately involves exporting to print in the following - PDF/X-3:2002 and 2 separate custom Output Intent profiles using PSO Coated v3 as the basis (with edited settings) and (what has been called) CRPC6_GRACol2013_TC1617_MSv4.icc

If I do not convert all files to CMYK or mistakenly leave a specific profile in a linked asset in the composited InDesign template, one or more of the clients' print suppliers rejects the files.

My current workaround is to remove all profiles from every element when compiling my artwork and use the specified settings per client in InDesign when exporting to PDF. This is the only way I can get the files approved. Shouldn't my chosen setting assist me in converting any RGB or embedded profiles to the required colour output without me having to change the linked assets?

Interested to know if anyone has an alternative solution. Thanks.

[Bob_Hallam]

Sounds like a poorly color managed workflow.   Moving between CMYK spaces is best whn using a Device Link Profile, so an alternative to that is to move to 16 bit supplied CMYK, then to Adobe RGB and out to the destination CMYK Profile.  The danger with that workflow are pure colors can not be maintained,  In the case of black only drop shadows, it's preferable to maintain them in most printers workflows.  Have your suppliers provide files to you in Adobe 1998 RGB, and Rip that to your print suppliers preferred color space.  Your Color Settings should respect all embedded profiles. 

[rob day]

Can't you have the clients send profiled RGB? Then you can make the conversion to the correct CMYK destination and Output Intent on the export from InDesign to PDF/X.

[TheDigitalDog]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/rob+day  wrote

If you send me a SWOP CMYK file, and the output destination is GRACol, there's no way I’m going to attempt to color correct or edit in the SWOP CMYK space. I’m going to move it into my preferred RGB editing space, color correct, and then send it to the final GRACol CMYK space.

Ah, that's why device link profiles are sooooo useful.

[Bob_Hallam]

Agreed Andrew,  After the damage is done conversion does nothing to restore the lost color.   Assign maybe if your going for a crazy effect but after an image is converted to sRGB or Adobe 1998 ProPhoto is useless. 

[rob day]

After the damage is done conversion does nothing to restore the lost color.

I don’t see anything being lost on an sRGB to Prophoto RGB conversion—sRGB is entirely inside of the ProPhoto space.

As Andrew points out the Lab values would be unchange on an sRGB to ProPhoto conversion.

I‘ve posted this before, so apologies if it is redundant to some, but the 3d plot comparison of sRGB to GRACol clearly shows the sRGB problem—there is a huge chunk of the CMYK gamut that is outside of the sRGB space and unavailable if you edit in sRGB.

sRGB is white, GRACol is color:

[NB, colourmanagement]

Yep, agree there Andrew

Device link profiles for converting CMYK to CMYK and Lab colour for "special" important colours a that will be made up of process inks.

Are you using Device Links in Photoshop Andrew?

It works but its clunky I thought.

Regards, Neil Barstow :: Apple Solutions Expert :: Colour Management Specialist

www.colourmanagement.net/ +44 (0) 1273-774-704  +44 (0) 7778-160-201