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Difference when printing from ACPU: Mac vs PC

Community Beginner ,
Nov 03, 2021 Nov 03, 2021

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I noticed that when I print the same file (a profiling test chart) in ACPU from Mac vs PC, and using the same printer there are differences in the colors. Eg the yellows are slightly more green when sent from Mac and a purer yellow when I send from PC. The only differnce I noticed with the workflows is that the printer drivers on Mac and PC are different, however they are both Post Script drivers and I have all color corrections turned off. So it should be the same, right?

 

Could it be anything to do with color engines - Apple CCM vs Adobe (ACE)? I just thought that it wouldnt matter when printing from ACPU...

 

Any help would be really appreciated! 

-Blake

 

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Expert , Nov 04, 2021 Nov 04, 2021

Just so other thread followers get it - the ACPU is ONLY for making patches for ICC profiling. Not for printing images as it has no colour management capabilities. As you may have discovered, it’s a recalcitrant utility - especially on Win where it appears to consistently resize the patch printout.

 

The colour engine should not be involved as there's no conversion.

 

As Bob mentioned - if colour management IS turned off in the driver, [and if the printer, inks and paper are identical AND heads

...

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Community Expert ,
Nov 04, 2021 Nov 04, 2021

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If the colormanagement is turned off you should see no differences.  Where the colors are "more pure" that equipment is most likely adding some form of color management.  If you are going to the same printer try and load that printers driver on both Mac and PC to eliminate that variable.  Most manufacturers will have Mac and PC versiona of their printer drivers.  

ICC programmer and developer, Photographer, artist and color management expert, Print standards and process expert.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 04, 2021 Nov 04, 2021

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Just so other thread followers get it - the ACPU is ONLY for making patches for ICC profiling. Not for printing images as it has no colour management capabilities. As you may have discovered, it’s a recalcitrant utility - especially on Win where it appears to consistently resize the patch printout.

 

The colour engine should not be involved as there's no conversion.

 

As Bob mentioned - if colour management IS turned off in the driver, [and if the printer, inks and paper are identical AND heads clean (do a nozzle check)] then, when printing [in this case from the ACPU], one would expect the results to be the same.

Do make sure everything in the print driver is set the same between mac and Win.

 

If there is still a difference in appearance then perhaps that means that the achieved print from the Epson driver differs between Mac and Win, that’s not likely but it is possible, I imagine. 

 

As you're printing characterisation patches with a view to making ICC profiles, maybe make ICC profiles for each and use a testimage to see if printed results match between Mac and Win, they should.

here's a free to use testimage: https://www.colourmanagement.net/downloads/CMnet_Pixl_AdobeRGB_testimage05.zip

 

IF I needed a profile for a specific paper/ printer on Mac I'd make it from Mac. 

Why are you printing from both Mac and Win with the ACPU?

Maybe you need profiles for each - if so why not make 2 profiles? 

 

That’s how I'd test it. 

 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
[please only use the blue reply button at the top of the page, this maintains the original thread title and chronological order of posts]

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Community Expert ,
Nov 06, 2021 Nov 06, 2021

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Hi Blake, what's your situation now? Thanks for the "correct" kudos

Are you now handling the ACPU OK for whatever is your purpose?

 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
[please only use the blue reply button at the top of the page, this maintains the original thread title and chronological order of posts]

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 07, 2021 Nov 07, 2021

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Thanks Neil and Bob,

 
I am using the provided Fuji Xerox drivers for the same printer (Mac & PC versions). But they aren’t 100% identical (e.g. a setting may be the same but called something different), but I'm sure I have matched all settings to be the same. Colour corrections are turned off and paper and toners etc are also the same.
 
Thanks Neil for the test image but am still noticing the same differences.
 

I actually only wanted to create a profile for my Mac but I wasn't able to print a CMYK tiff (to create a CMYK profile) as the page comes out blank with no toner on the paper at all. So this is the reason I involved a PC as a CMYK tiff will print from ACPU.  So I was hoping to create an icc profile from a chart printed from PC to use on Mac for this reason. 

 

I didn’t have this problem when creating an RGB profile for my Mac, but the problem was when trying to print using it (or any RGB icc profile) in Photoshop (with colour management off in driver) the colours came out muted (almost colour blind looking) but not the case when using any CMYK icc profile with the same workflow. Hence why I wanted to create a CMYK icc profile to get around the issue. Then only other way around it was by embedding the RGB printer profile into a PDF and then printing from the Preview program.
 
So its still not really solved for me. Any other ideas to resolve it?
 
Really appreciate it,
Blake

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Community Expert ,
Nov 08, 2021 Nov 08, 2021

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Hi Blake, good to have more explanation.

It's somewhat likely a the Xerox driver IS a postscript (so, CMYK) pipeline.

[for more on testing this please see: https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop-ecosystem-discussions/determine-if-a-printer-is-rgb-or-cmyk...]

 

I don't know why your ACPU on Mac won't work with CMYK, it’s a tiff, right? I wonder if that’s something in the Xerox mac driver that’s not working with that file.

CAN you even print CMYK from Photoshop, how about try printing the CMYK tiff chart from Photoshop/Mac, just to see IF it comes out. Obviously as you can't have "no color management" in Photoshop it'll be no good for making a profile. 

 

Also if you have i1 profiler that allows for direct non colour managed printing. 

 

You mention muted results when printing using the RGB profile you made on Mac, could that be a Xerox Mac driver issue (settings?), perhaps its doing some CM in the background? I guess there's also a Xerox printer calibration process in the driver, so make sure that’s done right if your machine allows it.  

 

Some have hypothesised (when Adobe removed "no color management" from Photoshop) that if you take a chart (CMYK in your case), assign a profile in Photoshop (in your case, for CMYK, say, a specific FOGRA 39 based profile) to it and ensure you select THE EXACT SAME profile in Photoshop's "Photoshop manages color" process [with AbsCol rendering intent selected]. This SHOULD give a null transform, so this process is worth testing. Try making a profile - then try printing the CMYK testimage version from here https://www.colourmanagement.net/downloads/Profile_Verification9_04_web.zip

 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
[please only use the blue reply button at the top of the page, this maintains the original thread title and chronological order of posts]

 

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Community Expert ,
Nov 08, 2021 Nov 08, 2021

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Is there a RIP connected to the printer that you may be printing through?

ICC programmer and developer, Photographer, artist and color management expert, Print standards and process expert.

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 08, 2021 Nov 08, 2021

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You wrote:

It's somewhat likely a the Xerox driver IS a postscript (so, CMYK) pipeline.

[for more on testing this please see: https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop-ecosystem-discussions/determine-if-a-printer-is-rgb-or-cmyk...]

 

I will try the test. I posted in the forum via the link you sent about the testing - I sent a screenshot with a question for you...

 

You wrote:

I don't know why your ACPU on Mac won't work with CMYK, it’s a tiff, right? I wonder if that’s something in the Xerox mac driver that’s not working with that file.

 

Yes, its a CMYK tiff. I read in another forum that its a problem with Mac and not to do with the printer driver not working with that file. Heres the link to that forum: https://community.adobe.com/t5/adobe-color-discussions/adobe-color-printer-utility-prints-tiff-targe...

 

You wrote:

CAN you even print CMYK from Photoshop, how about try printing the CMYK tiff chart from Photoshop/Mac, just to see IF it comes out. Obviously as you can't have "no color management" in Photoshop it'll be no good for making a profile. 

 

Yes I can, using any CMYK icc profile. 

 

You wrote:

Also if you have i1 profiler that allows for direct non colour managed printing. 

 

Unfortunately, I dont. Do you know if the i1 profiler software can be downloaded on its own? Or do you have to buy the i1 profiler?

 

You wrote:

You mention muted results when printing using the RGB profile you made on Mac, could that be a Xerox Mac driver issue (settings?), perhaps its doing some CM in the background? I guess there's also a Xerox printer calibration process in the driver, so make sure that’s done right if your machine allows it.  

 

Yeah maybe. But I only have this muting happen when I print from Photoshop using Photoshop colour management with Fuji Xerox printer driver corrections off, and its not only when I use the RGB profile I had made, it happens when using any RGB profile like Adobe RGB and sRGB IEC61966-2.1 for example. Only CMYK profiles have worked using the same workflow.

 

You Wrote:

Some have hypothesised (when Adobe removed "no color management" from Photoshop) that if you take a chart (CMYK in your case), assign a profile in Photoshop (in your case, for CMYK, say, a specific FOGRA 39 based profile) to it and ensure you select THE EXACT SAME profile in Photoshop's "Photoshop manages color" process [with AbsCol rendering intent selected]. This SHOULD give a null transform, so this process is worth testing. Try making a profile - then try printing the CMYK testimage version from here https://www.colourmanagement.net/downloads/Profile_Verification9_04_web.zip

 

Thanks, I sucessfully printed a test chart using this method, will send it away to be profiled. I'll let you know if it works.

 

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 08, 2021 Nov 08, 2021

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Hi Bob, to answer your question: 

Is there a RIP connected to the printer that you may be printing through?

The answer is I dont think so.  I'm not using any third party program just the Driver...

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Community Expert ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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Blake, yeah BUT it MAY be a Postscript (therefore a CMYK) driver

 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 11, 2021 Nov 11, 2021

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Yes it is a Post Script Driver from Fuji Xerox that I have been using (even says it in the driver file name - screenshot attached), But can't a Post Script driver be an RGB driver not strictly a CMYK driver? For example this Post Script driver has an RGB adjustment option in the advanced driver menu (also screenshot attched). Fuji Xerox also have a PDF driver which I also have but I dont use because the printer driver menu is very limited and more generic...

 

Screen Shot 2021-11-12 at 10.04.26 am.png

Screen Shot 2021-11-12 at 10.14.57 am.png

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LEGEND ,
Nov 11, 2021 Nov 11, 2021

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LATEST

Postscript driver should accept RGB or CMYK but GDI/Quickdraw driver doesn't understand CMYK and must be 'fed' RGB. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Community Expert ,
Nov 09, 2021 Nov 09, 2021

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Bl;ake

 

"I will try the test. I posted in the forum via the link you sent about the testing - I sent a screenshot with a question for you..."

I am not seeing that send a link please, maybe via a PM.

could you tell the result? a screenshot isn't going to help you need to analyse a print

 

I hope this helps neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management [please only use the blue reply button at the top of the page, this maintains the original thread title and chronological order of posts]

 

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 11, 2021 Nov 11, 2021

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Here is an example of "muted" colours. However the calibration bars print out. This is using the RGB profile I had made. This is what makes me think it must be a CMYK pipeline.

 

Neil - I'll wait for a reply in the other forum about the black/grey boxes print test...

 

IMG_2912.JPG

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