How to define colours of an old logo file

[mvainio]

I received a logo file, but no information of the colour values. The colour values are needed for further work flow. Now, when I use Colour Picker to define the colours in RGB and CMYK, the values are different in Photoshop and Illustrator. Especially RGB varies a lot. How do I get best results?

And when I then change the original tif-file to .ai, what colour profile would be the smartest choice?

The original logo is in CMYK format.

[kglad]

<moved from cc services>

[Ton Frederiks]

Make sure your Edit > Color Settings are the same in both applications.

Use CMYK documents in both apps when you start with a CMYK image.

[mvainio]

The colour settings are the same and in Illustrator there's also a notification that all applications are synchronized. 

Photoshop:

Illustrator

[Ton Frederiks]

In Illustrator create a CMYK document and place the logo image embedded.

When you pick up colors from a linked image, you get the colors from the RGB preview.

When you pick up colors from an embedded image, you get the colors from the file contents.

[mvainio]

Should I pick up the RGB colour values from the embedded CMYK document  or shall I create a new RGB file, embed the logo image and pick up the RBG values there? 

[Ton Frederiks]

I would turn on one more checkbox in your Color Settings: Missing Profiles > Ask when Opening.

When you place the logo image (embedded) in an Illustrator CMYK document and don't get a warning you should be fine to pick up the RGB values there, no need to place irt in an RGB document, the RGB values would be the same.

[NB, colourmanagement]

Hi

if this works for the user, Ton, and I hope it does, we better make it plain this their color picked RGB values will be related to the sRGB color space (if the color settings prescribe that) and no other, if someone else is using Adobe RGB as document color space then those values will potentially give a very different colour.

Not all users understand that RGB values are not unequivocal, in that they have no actual "visual related" meaning until associated with an RGB ICC profile (in this case sRGB).

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
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[Ton Frederiks]

Correct, just numbers without a profile don't describe a color.

His settings are set to sRGB, so that's what they will be.

As long as his RGB logo is tagged with this sRGB profile, he can use it (and convert it) to an Adobe RGB document and get the same color appearance.

[Bob_Hallam]

What is the embedded profile in the Original CMYK Illustrator file?

What is your normal CMYK document workflow when opening a CMYK file?  Do you convert to the working space or preserve color numbers?  

If it's converting to the working space that is the issue.  Preserve color numbers just assigns the same CMYK profile and the process should be consistent with the same color values.  

[NB, colourmanagement]

I'm presuming this color is going to be printed out of CMYK, not a special / spot color on press?

Colour appearance on-screen is controlled by Adobe applications using the monitor display profile and the document profile.

If your Adobe applications are set up differently, then they may display the same document differently. 

The document profile is very important. It's vital to colour communication.

Maybe you're lucky and there's an embedded CMYK icc profile in the document / file you were given. If not, when you open it, Photoshop will normally use the default CMYK (from color settings) as a temporary document profile - That happens even if you select "do not color manage this document" during opening. 

What happens when you open a document without an embedded profile or with an embedded profile that doesn't match the default in your color settings depends on how the application was set up. 

Without information about the CMYK profile of the original document, you are shooting in the dark. 

Presuming SWOP coated CMYK (the old Photoshop default) MIGHT be a good starting place, but you'll have to find a way to get confirmation on correct appearance. Do you have something the client had printed earlier and liked? Try match that.

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
[please only use the blue reply button at the top of the page, this maintains the original thread title and chronological order of posts]

[mvainio]

Thank you for the good replies. The colours will be used in team clothing. Of course it would be nice, that colours in clothing would be about the same as the club's logo in the website etc. The most important thing here is, that the colours are now defined with some values to follow in future. 

[Test Screen Name]

Will it be used as the colour OF clothing (the fabric colour)? In this case you really need to sit down with the garment manufacturer to discuss colours, you can't just give them an RGB colour.

Or is it designed to be printed on white garments?

[mvainio]

Thanks for this notice. The clothing designer has to be an expert in converting colours to their own colour system. Otherwise, things get really complicated.  

[rob day · Accepted solution]

For branding, the source or master color should be Lab—Lab colors are not affected by a device profile so you can get a more accurate conversion of the master Lab color to different CMYK and RGB spaces (sRGB for web). The Pantone Solid ink system swatches are defined as Lab and the printed swatches can be used as a master reference, or you can get instrument read Lab values from paint chips, objects or fabrics. This might help:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign/branding-color-guide/td-p/10818696