Indesign RGB printing

Report · Jan 19, 2009

Hi we have Indesin CS3 and we have great problems printing to our Inkjet printers getting wild variations on colour

we have an eye one calibrator and have no problems calibrating and get great results

we need to use indesign to print several photographs and text from indesign

Ie template with photos text boxes with ids and logos we do not wish to manipulate the images as they are medical shots and we require the original colours / exposure

when printing indesign uses "composite" whereas photoshop uses RGB

any suggestions as to where i am going wrong please.

Paul

Report · Jan 19, 2009

Paul,

I used to see some interesting color problems and variations when printing ID files to RGB devices too. I am using CS2. I had many discussions about the problem with Adobe, but they never solved it, to my knowledge. I did find a work around.

Export the file to Acrobat using the ID Export feature and leave color unchanged. Or, you could convert the entire file to a single RGB output space, such as Adobe RGB. Print from Acrobat and these problems disappear.

I don't know if these problems were corrected in later versions or not. CMYK files print fine, but RGB had some issues. Give PDF a try. Hope it works for you.

Report · Jan 19, 2009

Lou,

there are problems as well for printing by ID CS2
to a calibrated PostScript toner printer.
Chapter 9 here:
http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/oki-ps-28082005.pdf

Finally I gave up - I'm printing now only PDFs.

Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

Report · Jan 19, 2009

Thanks, Gernot.

I wasn't aware of that. I had many discussions with Adobe about the printing problems with IDCS2, especially RGB data files. I suspect there is some flaw in their print engine. They never did solve the problem.

All the IDCS2 jobs I have sent to press (CMYK) printed beautifully, and also on their proofer (Epson 9800, driven by a CMYK RIP). Their proofs matched mine almost exactly (mine were printed from PDF via RGB driver and custom profiles). So, I assumed CMYK was okay.

Cheers, Lou

Report · Jan 19, 2009

This thread should answer most of your IDCS 3 & 4 printing to RGB devices questions Mac OSX.

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?7@@.59b52c9e/17

Report · May 05, 2009

The link is dead.

However i'm using CS4 and still i can't have descent colors !

Report · May 06, 2009

alexgodlex wrote:
The link is dead.

Try the cached page on Google:

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:-3b9X1hyfSwJ:https://forum.adobe.com/webx/.59b52c9e+http://www.adobeforums.com/webx%3F7%40%40.59b52c9e/17&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Report · Jan 19, 2009

DYP,

Thanks for the link; I read through the thread. I am using IDCS 2, which supposedly predated these RGB output problems, but I have found it to be a problem also. In fact, it doesn't have the "Print as Bitmap" box. CS2 gave me fits getting accurate color with RGB output files, and I am no novice when it comes to color management.

Like Gernot, the only way I have been able to get accurate color output from IDCS2 is to export to PDF and print from that.

Any ideas?

Thanks, Lou

Report · Jan 20, 2009

Lou

I am not sure what OS your running. If it is Windows do you have your printer set as the default?

Report · Jan 20, 2009

DYP,

I'm on WinXP Pro. Currently, I have an Epson 2200 desktop printer set as my default in Windows, for letters, quick printouts, etc. When I send anything from PS, ID, IL, Acrobat, etc, I always choose my Canon iPF 6100, and of course, have all the color management settings correct.

Are you suggesting that having the 2200 set as the default mucks up the works?

Lou

Report · Jan 20, 2009

>Are you suggesting that having the 2200 set as the default mucks up the works?

Yes I have heard of that problem before. It may not be your problem but there has been a lot of cases reported where color was not correct until the printer you are printing to was set as the default printer.

Report · Jan 20, 2009

Interesting. I'll have to try it, but I'd be amazed if that were truly the problem. Stranger things have happened, though, so who knows? Thanks.

Lou

Report · May 20, 2009

The cached version don't work.

I'm wondering if it's normal : when i'm tryin to print from Indesign, i can only choose the color correction from the application, and not from the printer, i cannot choose 'no colors corrections' like in Photoshop. Is this normal ?

Is it possible to print CMJN document from Indesign with right colors or do we need a RIP ?

Maybe its better to export a PDF in RVB and print it from Acrobat ?

NB. using CS4

Report · May 20, 2009

alexgodlex wrote:
The cached version don't work.

Well, duh! It's two weeks later.

Report · May 21, 2009

I'm wondering if it's normal : when i'm tryin to print from Indesign, i can only choose the color correction from the application, and not from the printer, i cannot choose 'no colors corrections' like in Photoshop. Is this normal ?
Is it possible to print CMJN document from Indesign with right colors or do we need a RIP ?
Maybe its better to export a PDF in RVB and print it from Acrobat ?
NB. using CS4

Choose "Emulate Adobe Indesign 2.0 CMS Off" in Color Settings for no CM from ID.

Report · May 22, 2009

Interesting. Do you know why is it called 'emulate Indesign 2.0…' and not just 'CMS off' ?

It make me feel strange, like if i'm missing something !

Another thing i find strange : when i'm in Photoshop in the print option i can choose to turn CMS off (or use the application CM or the printer CM),

here in Indesign i can only choose 'let indesign control the colors' (well its not said like that but i'm translating to english…) and i have no other choice. To me it would have been more normal to be able to choose 'colors from the printer' and 'no color managment at all' in this specific roll over.

It's stange because the Creative Suite let you synch all the application but its like Indesign use a totaly different way of managing this, compared to Photoshop and Illustrator. It make me anxious !

The thing is that i'm tryin to print a color chart from Indesign to be able to make a profil of my inket printer (sending the sheets to someone that have the tools to do this). But i need to print this sheets with no managment at all ! (it's 3 Tiff files i have imported in an indesign document).

Report · May 22, 2009

The thing is that i'm tryin to print a color chart from Indesign to be able to make a profil of my inket printer (sending the sheets to someone that have the tools to do this). But i need to print this sheets with no managment at all ! (it's 3 Tiff files i have imported in an indesign document).

I print color charts all the time from ID with the "Emulate Adobe Indesign 2.0 CMS Off" setting. Works perfectly.

But you do need to take into consideration the Monitor Profile being introduced into the RGB print flow (Mac only issue). You can use the "Print as Bitmap" setting or if your printer driver bypass Apple print stream (such as Canon drivers with Fast Graphic Process enabled), or you can profile with the monitor profile in the mix, but that does bring other possible issues.

Report · May 22, 2009

I print color charts all the time from ID with the "Emulate Adobe Indesign 2.0 CMS Off" setting. Works perfectly.

But you do need to take into consideration the Monitor Profile being introduced into the RGB print flow (Mac only issue). You can use the "Print as Bitmap" setting or if your printer driver bypass Apple print stream (such as Canon drivers with Fast Graphic Process enabled), or you can profile with the monitor profile in the mix, but that does bring other possible issues.

I heard about something like this but i thought it was a bug related to CS3. And i'm using CS4. Don't you think it's even possible that Adobe never fxied such an important problem ??

By the way, i tried to print with 'print as bitmap' enabled but i don't think i'm gonna use that because the way it render text is not really good : text is becoming bolder etc For me its crap. I could use it onl for the chats but i think there is not point in doing that : i print the charts using bitmap then use the profil created with the charts without this option, it will give false result i think !

So if i understand what you say, my Indesign CS4 would (still) involve my monitor profil to print my document ? I don't understand how i can fix this ? Actually i use an Eizo monitor calibrated with an Eye-one 2 so the profil must be ok but still i don't want this profil to be involved in the printing process !

I think i'm lost now. Hey Adobe, are you listening ?

Report · May 22, 2009

I heard about something like this but i thought it was a bug related to CS3. And i'm using CS4. Don't you think it's even possible that Adobe never fxied such an important problem ??

This happens in both CS3 and CS4. I would not say that it is necessarily an Adobe bug, seems more like an Apple bug to me.

By the way, i tried to print with 'print as bitmap' enabled but i don't think i'm gonna use that because the way it render text is not really good : text is becoming bolder etc For me its crap. I could use it onl for the chats but i think there is not point in doing that : i print the charts using bitmap then use the profil created with the charts without this option, it will give false result i think !

I understand, but that is the way that IDCS2 and earlier printed. At least that is what we are being told.

What printer are you using that text is becoming bolder? I have not seen that when testing "Print as Bitmap" with the Canon drivers. That is probably another bug related to Apple and the printer drivers.

So if i understand what you say, my Indesign CS4 would (still) involve my monitor profil to print my document ? I don't understand how i can fix this ? Actually i use an Eizo monitor calibrated with an Eye-one 2 so the profil must be ok but still i don't want this profil to be involved in the printing process !

I had to use this option before Leopard and the "Fast Graphic Process" option in the Canon drivers. It is certainly a workable option, but that profile will be specific for that computer/monitor and ID only? I did not have a real problem when I had to do this and one would be hard pressed to see a difference with the ID print done this way compared with a print from PS using the PS chart generated profile.

Report · May 22, 2009

Well, when i print as bitmap the max number is 600dpi, wich is not egough to get clear vectors, would need to be 2400dpi !

So the outpouts will never be crisp ! Can work if there no text or vector… but really, this option won't do the job for me.

I think i will have to create a PDF for each time i need to print.

Report · May 22, 2009

alexgodlex wrote:
Well, when i print as bitmap the max number is 600dpi, wich is not egough to get clear vectors, would need to be 2400dpi !
So the outpouts will never be crisp ! Can work if there no text or vector… but really, this option won't do the job for me.
I think i will have to create a PDF for each time i need to print.

So can you really see a difference in vectors between Print as Bitmap at 600dpi and without print as bitmap on an inkjet printer?

If so what inkjet printer? I would be surprised that any print driver or the OS rasters vectors for any inkjet printer at over 600dpi.

600dpi, wich is not egough to get clear vectors, would need to be 2400dpi !
So the outpouts will never be crisp

If this is the case you probably need a RIP.

Report · May 22, 2009

Well i can see clearly see the different on my print.

If you take offset printing, they say your images needs to be 300dpi, ok, but if you raster your text at 300dpi the result is uggly. I think vector don't print the same way as bitmap, can't explain why but the result is here, clearly visible. I think todays inket can print far more sharper than 600dpi, don't you think ?

Report · May 22, 2009

Its becoming a madness !

Let's try to be clear. I'm printing a charts that is a TIFF file with no profil.

1) I have printed it in Photoshop with no CMS in the app and in the printer. Let's call the color result : A.

2) I have printed it with Indesign with no CMS in the app and in the printer. The color result is different let's called it : B.

3) i have printed it with Indesign with no CMS etc. BUT with bitmap turned on. The color result is the same as A. (cool)

So for now everything seems logical to me, colors are consistent thru app but with indesign because of the bug. Bug is fixed using Bitmaps.

So now i need to make a PDF that looks the same as printed as Photoshop because its clear its how i'm gonna print Indesign document.

4) I export a PDF in Indesign, i turn profil off in the settings to not include any profils in the file.

Then, in Acrobat Pro, in the printing settings : it ask wich profil i want to use and here i choose 'As source : without color managment' (i'm translating here, could be slighty different in english). Here i have the possibility to print as Bitmap but it's cleary not i'm tryin to do. For the printer driver i do the same i usual. BUT, STRANGLY : the printed result clearly looks like B and not the A i was expecting !

It's clearly a big problem to me, cannot use the chart like this. To me it means the printing problem in indesign has been embeded in the PDF ?!

I thought i was seeing the end of that madness but i clearly lost again.

Thanks for your help, btw.

Report · May 22, 2009

So for now everything seems logical to me, colors are consistent thru app but with indesign because of the bug. Bug is fixed using Bitmaps.

After see what Canon has done with "Fast Graphic Process" I am more inclined to call the an Apple bug. One needs to test what other apps hand off rasterizing to the OS/driver to see for sure.

4) I export a PDF in Indesign, i turn profil off in the settings to not include any profils in the file.
Then, in Acrobat Pro, in the printing settings : it ask wich profil i want to use and here i choose 'As source : without color managment' (i'm translating here, could be slighty different in english). Here i have the possibility to print as Bitmap but it's cleary not i'm tryin to do. For the printer driver i do the same i usual. BUT, STRANGLY : the printed result clearly looks like B and not the A i was expecting !
It's clearly a big problem to me, cannot use the chart like this. To me it means the printing problem in indesign has been embeded in the PDF ?!

I have never been able to get properly color managed to RGB inkjet prints from Acrobat. CMYK no problem. Because I have all the other options working ok for me I have never done extensive testing of RGB printing from Acrobat.

Have you tried exporting a PDF from ID with converting to the PS paper/printer profile. Then open that pdf in preview and then print turning off all CM in the driver.

Report · May 22, 2009

I have never been able to get properly color managed to RGB inkjet prints from Acrobat. CMYK no problem. Because I have all the other options working ok for me I have never done extensive testing of RGB printing from Acrobat.
Have you tried exporting a PDF from ID with converting to the PS paper/printer profile. Then open that pdf in preview and then print turning off all CM in the driver.

Sorry i've missed your reply.

It seems you are right : after tryin different settings in Acrobat Pro, i had the idea to print is from Preview (wich is not using profiles for printing as far as i know).

And again the colors are correct !

Crazy.

So it seems like the color managment in Acrobat is noin the job right. Is this again a bug on the Mac ?

I can't beleive there so huge gaps in the whole CMS from Adobe and no one seems to care… !

So i can print that chart from Preview correctly but is there any interest ?

When i will print 'for real' with the printer profile i will need to use an app that handle profile like Acrobat Pro but doesn't seem to handle RGB files correctly or use Indesign beeing stuck with bitmap outputs that doesn't give good result ??

I'm starting to become very pissed off. You mean i've a serious printer, a good computer, a Creative Suite, an Eizo, a EyeOne etc etc. Such a bunch of money and i just can't print something correct ? Are you kidding ? (well not you but…)