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Tired of color desat when opening in Bridge/Lightroom. HELP!

Guest
Oct 27, 2010 Oct 27, 2010

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I am going insane in my attempt to keep consistent color management through all areas. Everything was fine, color was great, prints were matched to calbration, monitor calibrated, and then....I rebooted the computer since I hadn't done so for a week, and when I restarted Bridge, and Lightroom (yields same results), the color immediately drains from the photos. Similar to the screenshot, however when I initially created this screenshot, Bridge was still accepting the color. Now, the desaturation exists in all Adobe programs. (PS CS5, camera raw, bridge , lightroom 3.  I feel like I'm going in circles here. I have no clue what could have changed with the reboot. One thing I have noticed is that in Window before a photo image is generated in a folder is shows as a paint pallette. And, when asked in Windows Color Management of the program I would like to use to install a profile, I am give Microsoft Color Management System (which to my understanding is designed for Vista or XP). Tried to delete the program but was denied. Not sure if that has anything to do with it either.

If you have any insight and can help me stop the madness I would be so greatly appreciative!!

Thanks!

Windows7

U2410 Dell Ultra Sharp Monitor

Photoshop CS5 64-bit

Adobe Lightroom 3

Camera RAW

Adobe Bridge

NIVIDIA FX 580

Screenshot.jpg

colormanagement.jpg

WindowsColorManagement.jpg

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replies 117 Replies 117
Advisor ,
Nov 30, 2010 Nov 30, 2010

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you should have read the whole thread.

Fair statement; but I think the phenomenon becomes a bit easier to observe (and articulate) when a user understands the color-management basics (and I didn't read that into the OP).

In any case, the WhackedRGB colorspace unmistakenly jumps out when the profile is ignored or wrongly assumed — this is a very valuable teaching and troubleshooting tool — with Whacked RGB it is evident color management is either working or it is not.

The first thing I would look at is how the suspect app deals with profiles.

Bridge and Photoshop should be displaying the tagged WhackedRGB files properly every time.

Bridge should be displaying the untagged WhackedRGB with the hard blue cast (because Bridge assumes sRGB on untagged files).

Photoshop can display Whacked RGB properly IF the user ASSIGNS WhackedRGB...

I don't know about Lightroom, but it should be obvious with the two WhackedRGB files.

That is where I would have went with this.

If that's not hapening the buggy/corruption theory would be next (if the apps were displaying as expected or is something else is happening).

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Participant ,
Dec 02, 2010 Dec 02, 2010

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The first thing I would look at is how the suspect app deals with profiles.

Bridge,  PS, LR, Safari, FF does, IE <9 and Chrome does not show the whacked  image (embedded profile) right. As it was to expect. Same with the  untagged image. Just a reminder: you pointed Connie in another forum to Gballards website before.

We did all those tests which can be found around before, and in the Bridge Forum Connie told:

I had two different adobe support tech's take control of my system for over 2 hrs and neither could understand why or how this was happening since all of the settings, and profiles were set appropriately.

so at least they considered this as an issue as well or never have seen this kind of desaturation themself before.

Lately I believe there is no "real" problem with Connies computer.

Aside the glitches with Bridges cache, Connie was used to a sRGB system before. F.e. sRGB images processed on a non wide-gamut system look oversaturated on non managed apps and a bit desaturated with managed apps, when viewed on a wide-gamut system. Which is what she gets.

She worked for weeks with this new system, even profiled the monitor.  But I believe she still worked in the sRGB world for those weeks and everything was fine, until - after a reboot - Spyder's LUT loader (or WCS's LUT loader) started to load the calibrated profile.

At least I found both LUT loader running, when I have been remotely on her system and there was another loader installed: quickgamma.

Guess Connie installed the latter, because she didn't get any help and tried to solve the issue on her own, reading the hints and tipps in internet, installing other software - and maybe she made it worse by this.

What happend to the images she processed before she rebooted her new system, only can be guessed. She might have had the monitor set to aRGB, but using sRGB in Windows. She sometimes have saved images tagged, but with no embedded profile. She might have assigned or converted back and forth with different profiles in PS respectively by using LR and PS.All by not being aware about the consequences it has when leaving the sRGB world.

Anyway - when listening to reports user provided to us, we never can be sure they were achieved by the same system settings.  Will say, when we ask an user today to check this and that, the results reported back might not fit to those results we got yesterday, because in meantime (compared, to yesterdays configuration) they have been altered by the user and today results are different..

In other words: we never know what a user have screwed up in meantime 😉 By this our assumptions might be wrong and we might lead the user to do even worse.

Good example are those three LUT-/gammaloaders: which was active and which profile was loaded when a test was done we asked for? Under which condition images have been posted here?

The only way to be sure is by logging in and checking all settings, respectively set the system back to zero (sRGB etc. pp.) and start over. Even than we can't see the hardware settings, f.e. if the monitor was set to Standard, sRGB or aRGB mode.

But even by doing so (setting her system back to sRGB and than configured it for wide-gamut) I was (and I'm still) surprised, that my images look desaturated on her system as well.

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Guest
Dec 03, 2010 Dec 03, 2010

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Joerg,

I want to thank again for you efforts to help me resolve this issue, which far exceed those by Adobe. Their weekly patronizing email which only repeats itself has done nothing to help. I have pointed them to this thread so that they will have full understanding of every step that has been undertaken, which they say that they have read, but I have my reservations as to whether they have actually done so.

I continue to work on the iMac without issue (knock on wood), and I'm hoping to here from my computer guy as to what he has discovered, if anything, in his efforts to "unbuild" and rebuild the pc. Oddly enough, my older system (the one used prior to the new build in September) that I had also attempted to edit on still holds the desaturation issues, which I suppose it always will until, if ever there is a resolution to the problem.

If nothing else Joerg,   if nothing else at least you validated me by confirming that you saw this issue first hand. I admittedly have little computer programing knowledge, and before this issue the only the I knew about color management was to that I needed to keep the monitor calibrated, and that images need to be saved in srgb or adobe rgb 1998 for my lab printing.

Even if, by some miracle Joey (my pc builder) is able to clear the system of this issue, I still really feel that Adobe needs to thoroughly investigate this issue, and find a solution for it. I have no idea what the catalyst of the issue is, but I feel that Adobe should be concerned enough about it to invest some time and resources into it, beings that every single incident I've discovered in forums all over the internet have one single thing in common>>>>>Adobe editing, imaging software. If nothing else, they could disprove this assumption and place the responsibility where it belongs (Microsoft, Dell, Samsung, the mouse, the keyboard??) However, I believe the issue is so vast, that they choose to side-step it each time leaving their customers holding the bag, only to shell out more cash for another system, or to except the issue and somehow work around it. For me, the latter was not an option as I need to know the authenticity of factors during editing, not after editing and saving the image.

For those interested, here are the facts as I see them (Joerg, please correct me if I've missed something, which you know well that I can easily do, lol)

The System:

(Old system)Prior to my new PC build, I had never encountered this issue on my previous system which is:

  • Dell Pentium 4, 3.2ghz, 3.00 GB RAM; Windows XP 32-bit, NVidia GeForce 8400 GS graphics card. using a Samsung 226BW, S-series monitor.. Adobe Photoshop CS3 (only used Photoshop and Bridge. -Never Lightroom)

New system began using September 16th, 2010, and the system issue initially occurred:

  • Custom build- AMD Phenom II X6 1090T 6-core, Asus 880G HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX CrossFireX, Windows 64-bit Professional; Western Digital VelociRaptor 150GB internal drive,Western Digital Black Caviar 2TB 7200 64MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s internal drive; Dell U2410 monitor. Adobe Photoshop CS5, Bridge & Lightroom (use all 3 programs, but primarily Bridge & Photoshop, ACR)

Nikon D300 (I shoot RAW always)

Nikon D70

**The issue/bug: Color (specifically, reds) are absent from images. This is not a slight desaturation as can be expected when viewing NEFs, this is the obvious removal of color from the images. -It is as if the color management is in reverse, only exhibiting true information in NON-color managed programs. Images load into Bridge, Lightroom, Photoshop and ACR exactly as they would if loading images onto a non-color managed internet browser in any colorspace that is not sRGB.

I am only able to view the authentic image outside and after blindly applying edits in Photoshop, when same in sRGB for the web. Which obviously is reverse of what is should be.

The Facts as I know them:

  • About one week into using the new system, a similar issue presented itself, but only in ACR & Photoshop. However, the issue disappeared as quickly as it appeared (within days)
  • Issue began Oct 27th, after a standard Windows update re-boot. I immediately began scouring the internet for help. Discovered dozens of instances of this very issue on a vast array of forums. Issue is reported occurring on Adobe CS2, CS2, CS4, CS5. Found reports of issue displaying on a vast array of computer brands, and monitors (wide-gamut, and ips panels).
  • One piece of hardware did seem to appear quite often with this issue, whether it's of any prevalence I am not sure. NVIDIA graphics cards.
  • I first reported my issue to Adobe via phone on October 27th.
  • Adobe customer support spent about 2 hours remotely checking my settings (which were correct for all workspaces, in all programs). After, an unsuccessful atempt at a resolution, the tech referred me to a supervisor or higher level tech. Again, an unsuccessful attempt. I was informed that they had exhausted all troubleshooting methods (which was not true, because the tech kept repeatedly being disconnected on his end from the remote interface and actually gave up on the steps that he had attempted to do). I again was told that the matter would be sent to the highest level Adobe engeineers and that I would be contacted in 3-4 days. I was not contacted again until November 12th (2 weeks after my initial call) and that was via email and only to ask the same questions that I had previously been asked.
  • Adobe has called (4 weeks after my initial call, and several unhappy clients filling my inbox, along with the vanishing 7 yr phenomenal reputation that I have worked so hard to establish)  2-3 times within the last week, however because the computer is now being re-built I have no access to the issue.

Troubleshooting steps thus far:

  • Reset preference in all Adobe Programs
  • Uninstalled and reinstalled all Adobe software
  • Changed color profiles to every single one available in Windows, and in Photoshop with no change.
  • Tried loading the same photos from an external drive to my older system and samsung monitor. Using CS3--The issue followed
  • Uninstalled and reinstalled monitor and video card drivers, and updates. -No change
  • Tried every color mode option available on the Dell U2410 external button controls.
  • Monitor had been calibrated using Spyder 2 with update, with the monitor color mode set to Standard Mode.
  • Purchased the new Spyder 3Elite, updated to 4.o with monitor color mode in each of the mode available. -No change
  • Removed the calibration complete and tried the monitor color modes available with the Windows color profile set to factory default profile, as well as sRGB.
  • Joerg spent a total of around 8 hours over a few days remotely testing different variables on my system, as well as recreating the issue on his own.
  • Purged caches

I'm sure there are several that I have forgotten to speak about, but this provides a good detail of all thus far.

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Advisor ,
Dec 03, 2010 Dec 03, 2010

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only exhibiting true information in NON-color managed programs


what monitor profile are you using

to get this info from Photoshop:

Edit> Color Settings> Working Spaces: click on RGB and expand your choices (as in my screenshot)

then click on Monitor RGB (to highlight it) and take a screen shot (like this):

MonitorRGB.jpg

then post it here

also please post a screen shot of your Color Settings

+++++++

where I am going is that "color only looks bad in color-managed apps" is classic bad monitor profile symptom

classic case study:

www.gballard.net/windows_srgb/

PS

if you are using a wide gamut monitor, try doing the sRGB test using a standard gamut monitor (because i think the wide gamut monitor is only confusing everyone)

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Participant ,
Dec 03, 2010 Dec 03, 2010

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what monitor profile are you using

where I am going is that "color only looks bad in color-managed apps" is classic bad monitor profile symptom

Yes, I thought the same. We (in case its not obvious yet - I'm Joerg) tried the generic DELL profile coming with the CD, my calibrated profile, from the same monitor modell just to see if it makes a differences, sRGB, etc. pp. - as Connie told, name it and we tried.

If you would have taken the effort and read Connies older posts (and her last in detail), you would have found out about her former settings, which were fine at that time.The only thing she/we didn't tried so far, is to check on a fresh installed Windows 7 and to exchange the video card.

Sorry when sounding harsh, but I feeel Connie is chased around in a circle right now, leading to nothing.

A word to the Adobe techs which were working remotely on her system: for whatever reason one of them moved the complete 32bit CS5 folder to somewhere else and left it there - Connie what was the location it was moved to?

Very clever - by this a normal user would have had the next issue soon, when trying to launch CS5 32bit next time. Even when it was meant to make sure he was always testing with the same settings (those of CS 64bit) and not accidentally launching CS5 32bit with different settings - leaving a customer system like this is absolutely unacceptable.

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Advisor ,
Dec 04, 2010 Dec 04, 2010

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Sorry when sounding harsh

No apology needed for me...but for other people who may stumble across this thread because they, too, are stumped why "color desats" in some of their applications and not others:

The basic theory and troubleshooting are (in most cases) no way as complicated and/or hopeless as presented in this thread.

The OP's most recent statement that only "NON-color managed programs" display color properly points directly to a bad monitor profile (or a basic mix-up of how profiles work).

Getting the profiles in order (with a known good test image) and ruling out a bad monitor profile should take a user less than 15 minutes.

If color-managed apps like Photoshop are still not displaying proper saturation (on known good files) after the profiles are confirmed — it's going to be either how the software is misconfigured, haxied or corrupted, or bad/incompatible hardware.

But agreed, it sounds like a fresh installed Windows 7 and to exchange the video card are decisive steps to rule out the video card and install.

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Guest
Dec 04, 2010 Dec 04, 2010

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gator soup..Personally, I believe the only apology regarding this thread or any of the information regarding it should be from Adobe due to their lack of customer support for their products. it is doubtful that anyone reading this thread will find it of any use, just as none of the dozens of similar threads found regarding this issue throughout the internet have.

Gator soup, I invite you to take a look at my system yourself, I would love for you to prove me wrong. Perhaps, Adobe has adopted this mindset as well with each of the incidents, and has immaturely placed the blame on the operator. Albeit, this is the case 99% of the time, however....that other one percent of us who depend on a product for our livelihood and a product that we have invested our time and money into, deserve the respect of solid, trustworthy customer support.

As stated previously, it has been four weeks since this case was opened with Adobe, and here I sit 4 weeks later no closer to a solution than I was then. Four weeks=4 weeks out of work=4 weeks of phone calls and emails from clients wanting their photos=a 7 yr impeccable reputation,now leaving me fearful to check my inbox and voicemail due to disappointed clients=having to resort to buying a Mac just on the off chance the color issue would not follow the photos (It worked)=I just spent $2000 two months ago on a brand new system=I had to go out and purchase a Mac for $2000 just because it was my only solution to being able to work, and the only option I have to keep from completely shutting the doors on my business.=staying up every night 3 or 4am trying to catch up on the mounds of photos that await me. .....this isn't even the half of the damage this issue had caused me in every aspect of my life, personally and professionally.

So, to Adobe I may just be that one %, but I am not a percentage, I am a business owner, photographer, mother, wife, and friend...and even more than that I am a person, not a percentage.

Furthermore, Gator Soup....at least Joerg took the time (actually a lot of time) to at least offer his help and skill. Joerg, does not have a stake in this, I did not purchase a product from him. He to my knowledge doesn't work for Adobe, yet, he offered his time, that is a hell of lot more than I've gotten from Adobe or anyone else for that matter! So, to even hint that he possibly should apologize for future readers of this thread is completely disrespectful,.

I feel that your statement is presumptuous, and arrogant. You should not speak so matter of factually, about which you have yet to test for yourself.

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Mentor ,
Dec 04, 2010 Dec 04, 2010

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Connie and Joerg,

You obviously don't know who »Gator Soup« is, and that's understandable.  Allow me to assure you that he is one of the most helpful contributors to the topic of Color Management not just in this forum but in the entire Internet.

More I cannot say because I respect Gator Soup's confidence and because my own user ID simply means Too Old and my signature "I Am Too Old", but your abusive post is totally misplaced.  Sorry.

Connie definitely has a monitor profile problem or the wrong Color Conversion Engine selected, and I'm sorry I can't help you directly because I am not a willing Windows user (though at times I am forced to be one) and have an abysmally low opinion of Dell wide-gamut profiles, particularly the model involved in this discussion.

Connie should enjoy her new Mac tremendously, particularly if she also got an Apple monitor.  Just make sure Photoshop is set to ACE (Adobe Color Engine) and NOT to Apple's color engine, Color Sync.

Finally, I agree with Connie's low opinion of Adobe's customer support.  Adobe is nothing like the corporation it was before becoming the current elephantine bureaucracy it is now, particularly after its Macromediatization.

____________

Wo Tai Lao Le

我太老了

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Participant ,
Dec 05, 2010 Dec 05, 2010

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You obviously don't know who »Gator Soup« is, and that's understandable.  Allow me to assure you that he is one of the most helpful contributors to the topic of Color Management not just in this forum but in the entire Internet.

It honors you when you show solidarity with G, but hm, I don't care who and what a person "is".  But with respect to GS, no one doubt, that he is a very helpful person and that his intention is to help.

But what I personally find disruptive is that Connie again and again is pointed to websites like Ballard's and which is not the most intuive to read and understand (its the most crappy webdesign I have seen for a while) by someone who didn't read the whole thread and her posts in the other two forums. In the other forum G answered as well -  by - yes, by pointing her to Ballard.

I'm aware that when I write/talk english I mostly sound harsh, which is not meant likes this. But some comments / help are just tiring to read all the time.

We did a browser check here (with FF CM on) and the 2nd page. All was okay - but what does this  prove? Not much - those are not her PSD or RAW nore is Adobe soft   involved.

As if this whacky image is worlds problem solver 😕   Connie correct me, but you get what you should get when the whacked image was loaded?

She was told to do all that before by Adobe stuff here, than other people and by me; Adobe stuff had two times a look to her system and I checked all that as well - and now she is told to start over again with the same tests.

Connie definitely has a monitor profile problem or the wrong Color Conversion Engine selected,

None of this. Not in the sense that the monitor profile is corrupt. Every monitor profile shows this effect, DELL's generic, mine from the same monitor type, WCS is configured to respect ICC profiles and Adobe on ACE, not ICM. The grapiccard is set to "other applications control color settings"

But I don't know why I repeat all this, we wrote about that before.

She might have a monitor or graphiccard /-driver problem, can't lock that out. She has the latest Nvidia driver - just to lock the next question out 😉

Note that Connie is on an iMAC now. If I'm not wrong, iMAC has its  own display  which is sRGB only. I'm not sure about that, but if so, its  no wonder  she has her "colors back". Not to forget this is a different  hardware  (graphiccard)

Would you both please give the following statement a bit more weight? It might would be very helpful when revceiving different opinions about that.  I pointed to that in one of my former posts, that I believe the issue is in the images, so far no one commented to this...

Tried loading the same photos from an external drive to my older system and samsung monitor. Using CS3--The issue followed

This is what irritates me most. I wasn't able to checked that. One explanation would be the images have been processed wrong, f.e. in ProPhoto, than converted and saved as f.e. sRGB with no embedded profile. But this do not fit to the fact, that they appear oversaturated in non magaged apps.

Connie, are you willing to do another test?

Set color management in PS to OFF load one of the desaturated image, a PSD (not JPEG yet)

Say "discard the profile" if CS complains (appears only when "ask when opening" is checked)

Asssign a large profile, starting by aRGB via ProPhoto and last Wide-Gamut. Let me know which comes closes to what you expect to see, if any.

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Advisor ,
Dec 05, 2010 Dec 05, 2010

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Connie is on an iMAC now. If I'm not wrong, iMAC has its  own display  which is sRGB only. I'm not sure about that, but if so, its  no wonder  she has her "colors back"

Set color management in PS to OFF load one of the desaturated image, a PSD (not JPEG yet)

Say "discard the profile" if CS complains (appears only when "ask when opening" is checked)

Asssign a large profile, starting by aRGB via ProPhoto and last Wide-Gamut. Let me know which comes closes to what you expect to see, if any.

ablichter

I actually read through your latest post several times despite your disrespectful tone (so I could try and understand what on Earth you are talking about).

You are probably a nice person, but you really have your theories mixed up....

Good day (and good luck).

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Participant ,
Dec 05, 2010 Dec 05, 2010

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despite your disrespectful tone

Until now I can't see a disrespectful tone in my latest post, because I don't addressed you in my latest post.

You are probably a nice person

No, I'm not. Usually I'm a real male bitch @. What you encounter is just the try to be nice. Does not work always.

@ edited "b i t c h"  is not allowed here

Connie is on an iMAC right now and the colors are okay. Is an iMAC sRGB, as I assume or is it or not?

On a different Windows system, with a Samsung monitor (sRGB as I also assume because she didn't tell) with CS3, she has the same desat effect.

So when something is mixed up, it might be by what she reports. But I trust in her here.

My latest statement of course is a theorie, because all that above does not fit to each other.

What is yours? Loading whacking images around? And when it appears the way it should, what on Earth would your next step, just to know?

That would be interesting.

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Mentor ,
Dec 05, 2010 Dec 05, 2010

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ablichter wrote:

Is an iMAC sRGB, as I assume or is it or not…

  iMac displays come in many flavors.  Generally somewhat larger than sRGB.  (BTW, it's Mac not "MAC".)

Dell_v_iMac_display_profiles.jpg

Typo in the illustration: it should read iMac 27", not 27#.

Übrigens finde ich es gemein unanständig von Ihnen, daß Sie gerade hier die Webseite von Herrn Ballard beleidigend kritisieren.

Hat denn Ihne die Möglichkeit gar nicht eingefallen, daß Sie sich in diesem Forum eigentlich mit deren Besitzer unterhalten?

Haben Sie vielleicht Ihre eigene, bessere Webseite anzubieten?

____________

Wo Tai Lao Le

我太老了

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Guest
Dec 06, 2010 Dec 06, 2010

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Tai Lao wrote:

  (BTW, it's Mac not "MAC".)


Wow, really?? Unbelievable.  Grammar professor as well, huh?

Anyway's, I wanted to pass along this information to anyone who may stumble upon this thread in hopes of finding a solution when they too face this issue. I have no doubt that the technologically savvy ones of you will have your own take on this and how it relates to your hypothesis of what has occurred. The following is an email from my computer guy, who had incidentally decided to rebuilt the system in hopes that it would clear the issue beings that we have already tried every avenue to resolve it. My response to his email can be seen in bold type

Good News!  I found the problem (because I'm awesome like that) and it's a pretty easy fix.


Basically the problem is your video card. I physically took the card out of the computer and hooked a monitor up to the onboard video that's on your motherboard. I rebooted the computer, opened Bridge and everything looked great. But here's where it gets a little fuzzy. You had the same problem when you went back to your old computer, so having a "bad" videocard on one computer shouldn't affect another computer at all.

I felt for sure it had to do with the video card, but after uninstalling, reinstalling and updating the Nvidia card several times, nothing changed, And then after I purchased and installed the new Radeom video card after physically removing the Nvidia card yielded no change, I began to doubt that it was the card. Crazy!


So the only possible thing I can think of is this - that would even remotely make any sense out of this whole situation is your old computer and your new computer both have Nvidia videocards. TRUE Both computers (I'm assuming) were calibrated with the same equipment.NOT TRUE So there could be some connection with Spyder > NVidia > Windows. ??? I don't know what that connection could be or how to "fix" it, but it's the only common ground that is linking everything together that I can think of. The only reason I mention Nvidia specifically is because the onboard video on your new computer is ATI. So it's a totally different video processor and driver from the Nvidia cards.


Then again I could be completely out in left field but all I know is that using the onboard video fixed the problem. And it really should be good enough to use day to day if you wanted to.


I've also read on the internet that Spyder and Windows don't get along too well. Especially when you boot up. And isn't that when you said you really started to noticed it? I'm pretty sure that you leave your computer on all the time (which is fine) and that ONE time when you do reboot BAM this problem happened. Which would go along with what people are saying about Spyder/Windows. Here's a thread about it: (They mention Vista but Windows 7 handles colors the same way. Hopefully the next Windows will be better at it.  http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=415836  I have a sneaky suspicion that if I were to wipe your hard drive and reinstall everything - it would would work great with your Nvidia card. But once you'd calibrate and reboot I bet this problem would come back. So I'm just going to leave your computer as it is, and you can try it with just the onboard ATI video if you want.


~Joey

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Mentor ,
Dec 06, 2010 Dec 06, 2010

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conniez68 wrote:

Tai Lao wrote:

  (BTW, it's Mac not "MAC".)


Wow, really?? Unbelievable.  Grammar professor as well, huh?…

No, Ms Smarty Pants.  

It has nothing to do with "grammar"; it's elementary computing terminology:

MAC = Media Access Control

— In a local area network (LAN) or other network, the MAC (Media Access Control) address is your computer's unique hardware number. (On anEthernet LAN, it's the same as your Ethernet address.) When you're connected to the Internet from your computer (or host as the Internet protocol thinks of it), a correspondence table relates your IP address to your computer's physical (MAC) address on the LAN.

( http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/definition/MAC-address )

Mac = Macintosh

____________

Wo Tai Lao Le

我太老了

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Participant ,
Dec 06, 2010 Dec 06, 2010

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Hey, now it seems like it will get real fun here.

MAC are cosmetics 

MAC-addresses are what you pointing to and always said in combination, not just MAC.

A MAC, a "Media Access Controll" is the control over a/the media, either the TV, radio or DVD player. And in my house in my hands only. AKA remote controll.

And a Mac is nice design

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Participant ,
Dec 06, 2010 Dec 06, 2010

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Hi Connie,

I told you to try the onboard videocard 😉

IMHO we can opt the Spyder out - remember we tried different profiles, and with all we had the same effect, even with the generic profile.

We can opt out Spyder' software / LUT loader, because it will try to load the profile which was made default in WSC. But it refuse to load a profile which has no VCGT (video card gamma tag). The generic profile has none, calibrated profile do have that tag. So when loaded the generic profile IMHO Spyders software wasn't distracting here.
What I for whatever sake never did, is to reset the nVidiA card. I just checked it, but did reset it to factory settings.

You might give that a try. If this it is, I owe you a dinner

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New Here ,
Dec 12, 2010 Dec 12, 2010

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Connie,

Interesting problem.  I'm sorry you've had so much trouble.  I also have a Spyder 2 Pro that I used on a Dell 2405FPW, a couple years ago under Windows XP and recently under Windows 7.  I also use Photoshop and Bridge (often using the Adobe RGB color space) but didn't experience any problems such as yours.

I recently got a wide gamut Dell U3011 and hooked it up before uninstalling or trying to disable the Spyder's profile change that occurs every time Windows is booted.  I had gone to TFT Central and installed the Adobe RGB profile they created for a Dell U3011, and on the next boot the Spyder software spit out an error message about the profile having too much information.  (I have since uninstalled the Spyder software.)

Perhaps that doesn't tell you much, but if it turns out that your issue is related to the Spyder calibration, the video card, an incompatibility between the video card and the Spyder software, with Windows and the Spyder, etc., or some other non Photoshop problem, you owe Adobe a big apology.

Please update us all when you have more info.

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Guest
Dec 13, 2010 Dec 13, 2010

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Hoping this final post is able to help at least the next unfortunate soul that runs into this frustrating, and debilitating issue.

**After trying every solution under the sun, and after some very wise folks witnessing for themselves the insanity of this issue by personally, remotely taking on my system, I have found at least the closest fix, at least for the moment.

I still have no clue what is exactly to blame for this issue or where it begins, but what I do know is that it is NOT specific to a particular version of Windows, of Adobe Creative Suite, Adobe Photoshop, computer brand, or monitor brand. It is NOT due to a bad monitor profile. Posts of this issue can be found all over the internet from all the way back to CS2 to the present, in every version of Windows, in many makes and models of computers, & monitors.

** I have not discovered this incident occuring on MAC products. However, I cannot say for sure that this does not occur.

What I do know:

-The only single solitary component in each and every incident that I have found online is that every person had an NVIDIA video card installed on their system.

-Each person experiencing the issue had Microsoft Windows on their system.

-Each person had Adobe Photoshop, Creative Suite, or Elements installed on their system.

-The issue "attaches" itself to any and all images on the system, and will follow them from PC to PC, and from monitor to monitor. (This does not mean that it destroys the photos, or makes them unusable. However, it will appear this way until the "fix" is preformed)

-the issue does NOT follow images from a PC to an iMAC.

***Replacing the Nvidia card with an ATI Radeon card did NOT change the issue.

What fixed it (at least for the moment and has worked so far for the passed week. This has been the ONLY solution that has allowed me to see and edit photos in their true state)

-Nvidia card was physically removed from the system.

-All drivers and incidences of the Nvidia card were removed.

-A VGA cable hooked to the onboard ATI video card worked, and continues to work, but ONLY after the above steps were taken.

-The DVI cable will not work.

Should anything change I will update this post. If you discover another fix, please do the same.

I truly hope that this will save you the months of frustration I have had to endure.

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Guest
Jan 21, 2011 Jan 21, 2011

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I am having the same problem.  Everything was fine until I upgraded to a wide gamut monitor today (Dell U2711).  Just to add to Connie's comments, I have a ATI video card, so this is not Nvidia specific.  Also, this is not isolated to Adobe products.  Using IrfanView, I can duplicate the colour shift/desaturation by unchecking the "enable color management" box.

test.jpg

Left is unmanaged, and right is managed.  They're two rendering of the same file by Irfan with color managed check and uncheck.

When Bridge is open, thumbnails appear as they do in the left image, then within 2 seconds change to how they appear in the right image.

Any ideas?  Or is this just how a wide gamut monitor intreprets the colour?  Some of the pix looks quite green ... thanks.

Edited:  Did more testing.  Firefox looks the same as Bridge (CS4) as in greener and less saturated, while IE8 looked more yellow and saturated.  This is definitely not Adobe specific, but has more to do with managed/unmanaged color profile.  Strangely, on my old monitors (Viewsonic VP2130 and Dell 2407), IE8 and Bridge/IrfanView didn't show a noticible difference.

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Advisor ,
Jan 22, 2011 Jan 22, 2011

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If you are going to use a wide-gamut monitor, you will need to embed ICC profiles and use software that reads embedded profiles.

If that doesn't fix the problem, I would recommend starting a new thread (and avoiding this thread altogether).

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Guest
Jan 22, 2011 Jan 22, 2011

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I have been embedding color profile for many years, and using them in colour profile applications as well.  The only reason I didn't start a new thread is to help the next person who may have found Connie's post.  In my case, upgrade from the SpyderPro 2 to Spyder3 Express solve the problem partially as supposenly SpyderPro 2 may not read a wide gamut display correctly.  Now across different applications (even IE8, which does not support sRGB) the colour are consistent, however they still look washed out compare to the same setup with a non wide gamut monitor.  I'll chuck this up to wide gamut display and call it a day.

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New Here ,
Jan 22, 2011 Jan 22, 2011

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I first suggest ignoring "gator soup" and continuing your comparison of monitors, and add in some different settings in Bridge. Of course everyone should always be using color management and ALL programs (Perhaps things like Notepad are exceptions, but not anything that displays graphics.) should be capable of color managing, but your experiments between limited monitors and your new wide gamut montior could be quite valuable, and this may be the the right thread.  (If you're turning off color management only to try and duplicate the color shift in Adobe Bridge you see that may be valid.  Gator soup appears to assume you don't know that turning off color management will change the colors you see on a wide gamut monitor.)

I have a Dell U3011 and can see the color shifting behavior in the thumbnails in Bridge as well as the full size preview in Bridge, but I don't think this is happening for me on pure jpegs.  I have found a couple of different ways to see the colors shifting in .CR2 files from a Canon 7D.  One is to change the option for thumbnail and preview generation near the upper right of the Bridge window.  It's in the lower toolbar just above the main preview window when you are in "ESSENTIALS" view.  (It's still there in the other views in the same general location.)  When I toggle from using the embeded image to generating a high quality preview, the thumbnails will go from dull to oversaturated.  The large preview appears to be about right in some cases and thus does not match the thumbnail.  In some cases though I'm seeing colors that are dull.

The other way to see the changes is by changing the camera raw defaults, and then reverting back to them.  In my case both issues I'm talking about are Adobe specific.  To be relevant to Connie's original issue, and to what I'm trying to work on, I think you will need to be looking at the differences in the Adobe software.  I think there may be an issue which is unknown to Connie and others or at least not fully understood, and/or there could an unintended "feature" in Adobe's color management that is causing problems.

I look forward to your feedback based on changing preview settings and perhaps other settings in Bridge and comparing the differences on your limited gamut montiors vs. your new Dell wide gamut.

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Guest
Jan 22, 2011 Jan 22, 2011

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Hi Chris.  I know of the "Colour shift" when thumbnails are displayed in Bridge when Bridge first opens.  Since upgrading to Spyder3 Express, I no longer experience the colour shift.  Colour in EVERYTHING from CS4 Bridge/PS, IrfanView (with color manage on and reading sRGB profiles), FF, IE8, or even the desktop wall paper is very consistent now, but washed out (a bit).  I suppose this implies I'll have to reedit my portfolio work, as the future IE9 and current FF does support sRGB and will be the norm going forward.

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Guest
Jan 22, 2011 Jan 22, 2011

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Hi Chris

I suspect the spyder3 express profiling puts the default window colour for unprofile application very close to sRGB.  I ran one last test for you, using Irfanview with colour management turned on and off (representing sRGB and no colour management).

test2.jpg

If I had to nitpick, yeah, it is not perfect, but pretty damn close, and good enough for my needs.  I hope that helps.

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Guest
Jan 22, 2011 Jan 22, 2011

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Alright, one last one using the same image as before for consistency.

Spyder2 Pro (left unmanaged, right managed SRGB)

test.jpg

Spyder3 Express (Left managed sRGB, right unmanaged)

Test3.jpg

One last bit about Connie's dilemma.  I recall she was using the Spyder3 Elite.  I've read that the Elite needed an update to support wide gamut monitors, and the Express that I was using does not.  Her problem could be a bad profile using the Spyder3 Elite.

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