Wide Gamut Monitor and the path to Sanity

Most Valuable Participant ,
Apr 17, 2016

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Yes... this again.

I promise that when I figure this out I am going to make a killer video tutorial

about this and help everybody who is still struggling with this.

I have read dozens of articles about this and still it alludes me.

read this insane thing (you'd think that a super expert,

when talking about color management, would have mercy on our eyes...)

read this very good thing

and read posts here and everywhere. still don't get all of it.

really, what's the point of working in a color managed environment

if you can only see it "right" in some specific color managed apps

while the majority of people will see it "wrong"?

Me

I do Compositing design for video.

My Workstation:

Windows 7

DELL 2408WFP Monitor. calibrated using x-rite i1displaypro.

Software:

Photoshop CC2015

After Effects CC2015

Chrome Browser

Vlc player

My Workflow:

  • in Photoshop I work in sRGB as a working space color space: the colors look less saturated - Like I want them.
  • when I save for web and embed the color profile: the photo looks fine in Windows photo viewer - since it's color managed.
  • Browse the files in my Os Windows explorer: saturated - since it's not color managed.
  • Watch it in my Chrome browser: saturated - since it's not color managed.
  • Import it to After effects for Compositing the image: it looks saturated - unless I change the color management project settings to sRGB - then it looks fine. o.k I get it - color management.... I can do this!
  • Export a movie from After effects and watch it in the ever popular VLC player: saturated - since it's not color managed. ARRGGGG

Why Bother?

it is supposed to be on the web so people are going to watch it in Chrome since the vast majority of people watch browse in chrome

if I send it to a client he is going to see it in Chrome. the movie is going to be watched in VLC Player since it's the most popular.

so basically everybody who's anybody is going to watch that stuff as too saturated. so why bother to work in a color managed environments? for geeks who only use firefox value 1? or use designated color managed apps??? (I am a geek no offense)

and if he watches it in sRGB Monitor or an sRGBcolor space profile in his OS - it is going to be saturated.

the only way I can keep my sanity for now is to set my color management profile in windows to sRGB

now everything is consistent - too saturated. but at least it's consistent.

what do you guys think?

and another thing:

btw is there a way to use x-rite to calibrate my monitor for at least to be a decent sRGB color space?

can't see how to do that...

thanks in advance

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Apr 17, 2016 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
May 06, 2017

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There isn't an easy way to know which apps are colour managed, and Microsoft even change it beteween releases. My recommendation is to use only Photoshop, none of the others can do you any good at all. If you want to see what other people see, use a different computer and normal monitor, nothing on your screen will tell you that.

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May 06, 2017 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 06, 2017

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It’s rather easy to know which applications are color managed: They match the color from applications you know are color managed like Photoshop, Lightroom C1 and (not to rub it in) a slew that come free on Mac’s.

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May 06, 2017 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
May 06, 2017

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On an sRGB monitor yes. But you said you had a wide gamut monitor. Has anyone said you can turn that off and make it behave like a normal monitor to both managed and non-managed apps?

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May 06, 2017 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
May 06, 2017

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Test+Screen+Name On an sRGB monitor yes. But you said you had a wide gamut monitor. Has anyone said you can turn that off and make it behave like a normal monitor to both managed and non-managed apps?

Test Screen Name you do know you can edit your comments to add all in one right? I mean if you are referring to one post, it's just more easy to follow.  just making sure. appreciate your input all the same of course. just seems irregular way of posting to me. be yourself of course.

I know some monitors allow sRGB mode in the hardware. it made sense to me that the software could limit the color range as well. in any who, this was the way I saw it was implemented in my news channel studio so I picked it up from there. that is, the sRGB fake/bad/inconceivably wrong profile in color management for WG Dell monitors. I don't mean to step on any toes here, just stating the visual result where photoshop and my screen and other screens produce more or less consistent results once I change/ruin/work completely wrong the the monitor to sRGB. when doing so, seeing the result in my home computer dell monitor was visually the same as seeing it in iMac displays which were sRGB. I figured this madness would be over when I buy my new sRGB monitor but hadn't felt it was the time yet. waiting for my screen to crack open or something... thank you all for all your dedicated posts.

https://forums.adobe.com/people/D%20Fosse  This stuff "just works", if people would just leave it alone. Run the calibration, done. It will basically work at default settings. Photoshop will handle it correctly at default settings. Windows color management will handle it correctly at default settings.

you should understand by now that I did not mess with my settings because I get a kick out of it. a kick in the gut maybe... I wish this was true for my situation. as I said, I guess the monitors that I have been using are so screwed that only sRGB faux profile could actually work. no one will calibrate these professionally in my work studio, and in my home I tried to work with the i1display pro and set a profile and it was still not clear to me what image should I trust more since photoshop was way off anything else. in my home and everywhere else.

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May 06, 2017 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 06, 2017

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On an sRGB displays NO ! sRGB alone doesn’t guarantee a match without color managed applications! Watch the video. Non ICC aware applications have NO IDEA what sRGB is. It has no idea about the condition of the display. It sends the RGB numbers, as is, to the display. There is no Display Using Monitor Compensation which is part of an ICC aware preview path. The way you get a match on your system, with or without sRGB is to use color management! Color management knows the scale the RGB numbers in sRGB. It knows the condition of the display via it’s display profile. It produces a match between all ICC aware applications while non ICC aware applications done none of this. We haven’t seen a true sRGB display (based on it’s specific spec’s) since last century. So sRGB alone doesn’t guarantee anything.

The idea that sRGB alone is an answer to color matching is an urban legend (like all displays are 72PPI, all output devices require 300PPI of data), it needs to go away. The only way sRGB or ANY other tagged image will appear correctly and match other applications is to use color management!  Period.

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May 06, 2017 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
May 06, 2017

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And you CERTAINLY can't make any monitor behave like a different monitor by using the profile for that other monitor. It doesn't work that way, any more than writing a different model number on the label would.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 06, 2017

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Test+Screen+Name  wrote

And you CERTAINLY can't make any monitor behave like a different monitor by using the profile for that other monitor. It doesn't work that way, any more than writing a different model number on the label would.

Yeah. Let's just sum that up too, in, er...very simple terms:

A monitor profile needs to be an accurate description of the monitor's actual, current behavior.

That's the one, basic requirement that needs to be met. It's just like any other profile: adobeRGB1998.icc has to be an accurate description of the Adobe RGB (1998) color space, as defined.

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May 06, 2017 1
Most Valuable Participant ,
May 06, 2017

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I think the reasoning goes like this: (1) I want to see how other people will see this (2) they won't have my fancy monitor or software (3) they will have system default photo viewers (4) so if I use the system default photo viewer I will see what other people see. (5) it looks different from Photoshop on my computer (6) yet I want everyone to see the same thing (7) and Photoshop is supposed to be professional software (8) but it can't even do this simple thing. Photoshop is therefore junk. It is quite hard to accept that almost all other software, computers, systems and monitors are junk (from a colour point of view) especially if your starting world view is that clearly a professional tool can make a good image that everyone will see correctly.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 06, 2017

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Test+Screen+Name  wrote

I think the reasoning goes like this: (1) I want to see how other people will see this

Stop right there. You can’t do this. You have no control over what other’s see. If they have a calibrated (how?) and profiled display. If they use color managed browsers. IF they have these conditions met, you’ll get closer but in no way can you know what they are seeing and if it matches what you see. So #4 above isn’t true.

You can control what you see on your system(s). That requires color management and color managed applications.

Now if and when you can provide a color reference display system to everyone in your audience and they load a calibration target (settings) and use the same colorimeter along with a color managed application, #4 will be true. Don’t hold your breath on that ever happening!

Ever walk into an electronics store with 25 TV’s all getting the same RGB signal? Ever see them all match? No. So forget about #4.

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May 06, 2017 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
May 06, 2017

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I agree. But in the real world we want to do the best job we can for the large majority of people, rather than refuse to accept them as clients, customers or viewers because they have the temerity not to have colour managed displays. So far as I understand (and it may not be much), sRGB is about the best we can do for the great unmanaged. Whose expectations of accurate colour are, after all, lower than ours. At least until they return those garments they ordered online.

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