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i feel the current incarnation of the forum discourages participation

Community Expert ,
May 14, 2014 May 14, 2014

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Previously the creator of a thread and the last person having posted there were listed, now it seems to be limited to the creator.

I myself take less interest in threads that have already received attention and suspect that some others may feel likewise.

So even if post 1 is by the creator themselves (adding some clarifications for example) I canā€™t see that immediately and am less likely to even check out that thread.

I guess the Forum administrators should be able to determine if more threads have been contributed to by only two people since the last Form update (which might also be an indicator of other problems though).

Maybe (hopefully) others do take a different approach than me, but I think reinstating the listing of creator and last poster to a thread in both Content and Overview would benefit the Fora.

Anyone else wants to share their opinion on this?

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Guest
May 25, 2014 May 25, 2014

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I do log into the this Forum and am monitoring the progresses, or lack of progress.  But judging from past experiences on getting changes I think I will be dead, or we will be on Photoshop version 26 before that happens.  Then it is a moot point for me anyways.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 08, 2014 Aug 08, 2014

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Claudio GonzƔlez wrote:

Do come in here once a week to take a look. Who knows? Madison and company might be successful in making participation fun again.

Well its been months now. I keep popping in to see if any usability changes have been implemented but I'm afraid I see none. It is still just as not-fun to use as the first day it went live.

Cheers,

--

Neale

Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

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LEGEND ,
Aug 08, 2014 Aug 08, 2014

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And the editor works as flaky as ever with Internet Explorer 11.  I still lose stuff regularly.

Type a line with a dash in it - like this one.

Now go back and select a word in it and bold it.  More often than not it will just lose part of the line.

-Noel

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Community Expert ,
May 24, 2014 May 24, 2014

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My participation is way, way down, and will likely be so in the future.

It would be interesting how participation has developed since the current form of the Fora was established.

As the thing has been up and running a few weeks now I suppose a trend might be recognisable by now.

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Contributor ,
Jul 01, 2014 Jul 01, 2014

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I could not agree more with the title of this thread. Every mouse click now takes 20 seconds or more before anything happens, impossible to tell who the respondents of a thread are and each page of threads is now an extremely short list.

These forums are no longer fun or easy to participate in.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 01, 2014 Jul 01, 2014

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I've been putting in a lot of effort lately, but I've got to say this forum frustrates at every turn.

Today it's these 20 second long waits for anything to happen.  I cleared cookies to no avail (except that the next attempt to log in just hung up).

Every day it's the stupid flaky editor that eats phrases.  And this business where if you visit a thread via your Inbox it doesn't show having been read in the main Discussions view.  Ridiculous!

I agree with Christoph's original post - even if everything were to work right, the overview screen has lost all its utility.

Adobe, please consider our renewed cries here make it more pleasant for the folks who wish to contribute to continue to do so.  As an example, you've lost a REAL ASSET in Curt Y's leaving (and I'm sure others).

-Noel

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Adobe Employee ,
Jul 07, 2014 Jul 07, 2014

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We're working on adding more memory to our jive servers to help with the lengthy load times.

Thanks for your patience as we work to fix this!

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Contributor ,
Jul 07, 2014 Jul 07, 2014

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We're working on adding more memory to our jive servers to help with the lengthy load times.

Thanks for your patience as we work to fix this!

Thanks for the heads up....but what Noel said:

even if everything were to work right, the overview screen has lost all its utility.

...is the main point of this issue, I believe.

Faster is better...but if basic functionality remains in its current crippled state, all the extra memory would do is just disappoint us all quicker.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 07, 2014 Jul 07, 2014

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m.m.murphy wrote:

We're working on adding more memory to our jive servers to help with the lengthy load times.

Thanks for your patience as we work to fix this!

I don't think it is the memory problem.  The problem is with so many scripts running at the server side rather than delegating some to the client side to balance the load.  These forums have become so slow that sometimes it is impossible to login at all.  why is it necessary to run all the scripts all the time?  Why not make use of the browser cache so that processing doesn't take when the info is already on users machine.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 07, 2014 Jul 07, 2014

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It's 100x too complicated for what it does.

Have you seen how many requests it does and how many megabytes it loads to the client just to show a page?!?  Literally MEGABYTES of script code?  Ridiculous!

Web programmers at Jive ensuring themselves job security?  Maybe.  They're the envy of the Obamacare web site for sure.

-Noel

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Guest
Jul 08, 2014 Jul 08, 2014

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Been reading the comments on this Forum since Jive updated from 4.x to 7.x.  My conclusion from all the comments is that Adobe is in a hole which it can not extract itself.  Can't go forward or back.

The current Jive web is not user friendly for a User to User answer Forum.  Seeing who was last responder, time in minutes since last response, breadcrumbs, jump to last post, and number of responses no mater which tab one uses would seem to be a  bare minimum to make Forums useful for responders.   Neither Jive nor Adobe wishes to spend the time and money to write new code to make this happen.  It appears the ample modifications would make version "non-standard" and then Jive would not cover in agreement.

Adobe can not jump ship and choose another vendor as all the response history would be lost.  So users are stuck with whatever Jive throws at them, no matter how bad it has become, or will become.  And if you are an old time user you will remember the thousands of comments on this Forum about how bad it was when Jive took over from the previous vendor years ago.  It took at least a year of complaining before meaningful changes were obtained.  I do not believe that will happen this time as the major players have either quit or accepted changes as fate.  The least Adobe could do is demand a reduced rate as they are getting a reduced service.

Like my old boss once said about workers like me complaining about the great working conditions of "the good old days".  He said only the old timers complain about loss of freedom to do their job.  The new hires don't complain, and in a few years will look back and say when they were hired "those were the good old days".    In 3 years will Jive 7.x be "the good old days?"  I hope not, but then  - - - - - .

So new blood will fill the Forums and maybe that is a good thing, gets rid of the complainers.

curt y since 2007

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Community Expert ,
Aug 16, 2014 Aug 16, 2014

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Thanks for all the contributions!


Itā€™s been a while and personally I have grown somewhat used to the current degraded state of the Fora.


I continue to contribute (if I should do so less frequently it would be primarily due to my work-load and not deliberate protest) but I have the impression that participation is not what it used to be.

Sometimes I take the time to go beyond page one of the Content and it seems more threads stick at 0 replies than previously.

Edit: I should have mentioned that I am referring to the General Photoshop Forum.

Naturally, again, I cannot ascertain if my impression is quantitatively correct or just self-reinforcing prejudice ā€¦

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LEGEND ,
Aug 17, 2014 Aug 17, 2014

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c.pfaffenbichler wrote:

I have the impression that participation is not what it used to be.

We've had the stats engine disabled for a while (and I'm sure you all noticed the huge performance improvement! ) so I can't talk about the long-term trend; but this week the Photoshop section had a daily average of 43,000 views, 22 new questions, 103 new replies and 2 'likes'.

The PS section overall has 26,000 topics, 24,000 with responses and 5000 marked as correct. On average it takes 1 day for a correct/helpful response to be posted. That's a pretty typical ratio for the popular areas of the site.

Of course some of the really obscure areas get no experts visiting, and some places don't tend to get "questions" as much as general chatter.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 17, 2014 Aug 17, 2014

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It'd be interested in insights as to why some sections apparently get a higher percentage of answers marked than others.  As active as I've been, there are folks (e.g., kglad) with points counts that would take me 50 years to reach.

I find the social/cultural aspects of that fascinating.

-Noel

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LEGEND ,
Aug 17, 2014 Aug 17, 2014

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For some users the points value includes their contributions on other legacy platforms (e.g. the old help system) and the scoring model was different in the past, so there are users whose scores would be pretty impossible to reach these days. It's a sweeping statement but the areas of the site where questions are mostly trivial are a quick way to gain points, as it doesn't take long to paste a five-word "download it from XXX" reply into every message.

Realistically the points system is meaningless on a site like ours, as the people choosing the correct answers aren't trained. We get just as many correct answers assigned to a reply saying "thanks!" as to a ten-paragraph explanation of something obscure in the SDK. There are categories of user who just don't bother to come back, so points are never awarded. Some of the most knowledgeable members of staff have very few points simply because they're answering the "wrong" type of question. However 'gamification' (terrible word) is a core part of Jive and Adobe can't turn it off.

The unreliability of points and post counts is why the MVP system was created - entrants are vetted by staff or have an ACE/ACI certificate, so you know they have a certain level of knowledge. Unfortunately you can't tell in what area they have that knowledge, as the profile "skills" section is useless outside of a corporate deployment.

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Community Expert ,
Aug 17, 2014 Aug 17, 2014

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c.pfaffenbichler wrote:

I have the impression that participation is not what it used to be.

Really? The turnover in the PS forum these days is such that I simply can't keep up any longer. Any given thread that doesn't receive a reply is buried on page four within hours. I've never seen anything like this since I joined in, what was it, 2008 or so.

By that criterion, the current forum is a screaming success. That doesn't mean I like it, I don't. But it actually has been worse - nothing beats the first Jive incarnation immediately after they killed the original Web-X forum (which, let's face it, had its own problems). Back then it was all about points and status and salami slices, there was even a cute little cartoonish "speech bubble" framing each post....OMG, it's still there, just noticed

Anyway. What I'd like to get back is last poster. That's simply to put a thread in context, that's all. Has the OP responded? Who are involved in the thread? That sort of thing.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 17, 2014 Aug 17, 2014

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twenty_one wrote:

Anyway. What I'd like to get back is last poster.

That's a real bug so it's on the list of things Jive have been told to fix. Can't say when that'll be though.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 17, 2014 Aug 17, 2014

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Dave, notwithstanding your good involvement, the LOSS of these Good Things is continuous.

It's not like we're craving things the forum has never done before.

Why should we have any hope that any bug on any list is likely to be fixed?  Seems to me they must be busy breaking two more features.

-Noel

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LEGEND ,
Aug 17, 2014 Aug 17, 2014

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twenty_one wrote:

c.pfaffenbichler wrote:

I have the impression that participation is not what it used to be.

Really? The turnover in the PS forum these days is such that I simply can't keep up any longer.

Perhaps that's what Christoph means...  Participation by experts who can actually help people has fallen off.  In this very thread we hear that Curt Y has given up.

Things change, people move on, but given that there are an unprecedented number of folks asking for help - and I'm not talking about simple "short between the headsets" type of help, but real help with crashes and such - it seems to me the forum ought to be made more robust, not continuously becoming more and more frustrating for we helpers.

-Noel

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LEGEND ,
Aug 17, 2014 Aug 17, 2014

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It would seem that good old Bill Hunt also gave up. Last logged in July 2.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 18, 2014 Aug 18, 2014

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Bill, are you still around?

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Guide ,
Aug 19, 2014 Aug 19, 2014

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@ Claudio

Someone else asked that recently. Perhaps in the Video Lounge (I think). Anyway, another person replied that Bill had some sort of massive summer house project underway, and his forum time would be limited to non-existant until sometime in the fall. I don't know if that is true, but it is what I have heard.

--OB

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LEGEND ,
Aug 19, 2014 Aug 19, 2014

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Thanks, Bob, but my fears arise from this message of his of May 23 in this same thread:

My participation is way, way down, and will likely be so in the future. I find the new forums to be all work, and little fun. It is so hard to get work done any longer.

Perhaps for a first-time poster with a question, or problem, things ARE better, but for me, a contributor, I am horribly frustrated.

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Mentor ,
Aug 19, 2014 Aug 19, 2014

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Even My participation is down severely. But not so much because forum Changes. But because I am taking care of my elderly mother that fell on a cement floor about 7 - 8 weeks ago plus she has a Bad sore on back of her leg. I have become a Pharmacist of Sorts and I am  doing the cooking, cleaning, Washing Clothes, Dishes, etc. I just have time to scan post and comment on one or two.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 19, 2014 Aug 19, 2014

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Phillip, I'm very sorry about your bad news. However, my concern was about people leaving the forums because of the changes...

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