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Confused, Since last CC app Update Core Sync continually stops working.

Participant ,
Dec 26, 2013

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This is occurring with a window popping up stating 'Core Sync has stopped working' more than once an hour, on both my laptop and desktop, both running Windows 7 64bit.

I just spent over 40 minutes on the phone with adobe tech support, to finally be told to turn file sync off in the creative cloud app at some point, and then being instructed to sign out and sign back in to the CC app, whereupon I was told the issue was fixed.

I asked if I could turn sync back on, and was told no, as the problem would recur. I asked then how I was supposed to use file sync then, and the tech simply disconnected. Shortly after this, the window popped up again though file sync was still paused.

So spending this time has solved nothing, I still have this problem on both my computers, support simply bailed on me, and I'm paying $50/month for this...and the window just popped up again.

How do I fix this other than simply turning the creative Cloud app off? I have looked through the forums some, but only seemed to find problems and not solutions.

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Confused, Since last CC app Update Core Sync continually stops working.

Participant ,
Dec 26, 2013

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This is occurring with a window popping up stating 'Core Sync has stopped working' more than once an hour, on both my laptop and desktop, both running Windows 7 64bit.

I just spent over 40 minutes on the phone with adobe tech support, to finally be told to turn file sync off in the creative cloud app at some point, and then being instructed to sign out and sign back in to the CC app, whereupon I was told the issue was fixed.

I asked if I could turn sync back on, and was told no, as the problem would recur. I asked then how I was supposed to use file sync then, and the tech simply disconnected. Shortly after this, the window popped up again though file sync was still paused.

So spending this time has solved nothing, I still have this problem on both my computers, support simply bailed on me, and I'm paying $50/month for this...and the window just popped up again.

How do I fix this other than simply turning the creative Cloud app off? I have looked through the forums some, but only seemed to find problems and not solutions.

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Adobe Employee ,
Dec 26, 2013

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Hi Brian,

Could you please try uninstalling the CC Desktop apps and delete this folder.

Windows:

C:\Users\abhijiku\AppData\Roaming\Adobe

Once done please reinstall CC Desktop apps and try using the Sync feature. Please let us know if it helps.

Regards,

Abhijit

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Participant ,
Dec 26, 2013

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Thank you for the quick reply, I'll do so right now and let you know how it goes.

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Participant ,
Dec 26, 2013

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Hi again,

Drat, just popped up, here is an image of it and the problem signature:

CC-desktop.png

Problem signature:

  Problem Event Name:    APPCRASH

  Application Name:    CoreSync.exe

  Application Version:    1.1.3.24

  Application Timestamp:    52aaef95

  Fault Module Name:    ntdll.dll

  Fault Module Version:    6.1.7601.18247

  Fault Module Timestamp:    521ea8e7

  Exception Code:    c0000005

  Exception Offset:    00097114

  OS Version:    6.1.7601.2.1.0.768.3

  Locale ID:    1033

  Additional Information 1:    a7aa

  Additional Information 2:    a7aa91f17ea749d42a4de3b390fa5b3d

  Additional Information 3:    a7aa

  Additional Information 4:    a7aa91f17ea749d42a4de3b390fa5b3d

Read our privacy statement online:

  http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=104288&clcid=0x0409

If the online privacy statement is not available, please read our privacy statement offline:

  C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt

Hope this helps and thanks for your time.

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Adobe Employee ,
Dec 26, 2013

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Hi Brian,

I am sorry to hear that the steps did not work well.Could you please try creating a new Admin User account and check whether the Sync feature is working properly or not.

Regards,

Abhijit

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Participant ,
Dec 26, 2013

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Hi,

Can do, but I'll do that tomorrow, as I'd already been dealing with the issue for 3 hours so far today and need to get on to other things. I'll let you know how it goes then, and thanks again for your time...

Interestingly also, atm the pop ups are happening much less often now, in fact not since I took a screenshot of the last one.

Thanks again for your time.

Brian

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Community Beginner ,
Dec 29, 2013

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Can you please contact someone on the development team and I suppose someone from public relations, and get a statement about what is actually being done to find the cause of this crashing issue?

It is unacceptable for Adobe to keep asking users to reinstall applications and to create new administrative users (Adobe apps should not require administrator privileges at all in the first place) everytime a crash report is made.

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Participant ,
Dec 30, 2013

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I admit to reaching a point of wanting to do this.

First let me state that I am finding helpful and knowledgeable people most especially here in the forums.

I have to state that the response I receive from their phone support seems a bit rout, and the the people I'm dealing with seem to spend long amounts of time researching what might be the problem, as opposed to having much experience with the problem.

It seems very complex overlapping issues are involved, from the system designed to serve and update many various apps running on many various operating systems using many different hardware configurations.

That being said, looking back over the past year I've spent probably at least 2-4 hours each time I run into some adobe issue, about maybe once every month or two, and each of these times, I don't think the actual issue has been solved, but rather I decide on a work around, or ignore it, or simply stop using the software for awhile out of sheer frustration, regardless of the fact that I'm spending money on it.

This to me means that although Customer Support is very polite, and usually tries hard to fix issues...it really is not as of yet very functional or successful in my case, and because the software seems in a semi-constant beta state in which updates, new features and entire apps are continually adding complications and changing the way to address former issues, I cannot see this changing anytime soon.

I will state here specifically that twice before I was asked to create an additional administrative account...a different way each time, and that neither time did doing this change anything; the same problems still existed within each of these nice new pristine accounts. Though that I suppose doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't work the third time.

Perhaps finding a more solid and consistent way to integrate the entire system in addition to just continually adding more parts would help.

In the mean time atm, my Core Sync is only randomly crashing 2-3 times today, so I'm back to ignoring it for now.

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Adobe Employee ,
Dec 30, 2013

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Brian of SummaeStudios I am sorry you have been facing difficulties with the Core Sync process crashing on your Windows 7 computer.  I do see that you have been in contact with our support team under case number 185024638.  I have requested a member of our support team to contact you directly to work with you to resolve your difficulties.  Please let me know if you continue to experience difficulties.

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Participant ,
Dec 30, 2013

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Hi Jeff,

For some reason I do not comprehend, perhaps server-side? Core Sync seems to have stopped crashing, at least for today.

I did receive a call from Customer Support as you set up for me. Unfortunately in the process of dealing with the one old PS issue still coming up, and getting somewhere I am sure, I was disconnected by simply a bad connection. Now I've been on hold on the phone trying to re-connect for 20 30 minutes, and on hold in chat, in some vague hope they might connect me more quickly, for over 10 minutes.

(For what it is worth, the issue seems to be sniffer_gpu.exe not being able to identify my AMD Radeon HD 5700 or its 1 gig of vram. but that is PS, not CC)

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 06, 2014

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I have the same problem, on a Windows 7 Pro computer (Dell Vostro 64-bit)

Description:

I updated Adobe Creative Cloud application, then some of the Adobe applications, about three days ago.

Since that time, I get a "Core Sync crashed" Windows error message box about once every hour.

Below is the Windows-supplied diagnostic (in french)

Please do something.

It is unacceptable from a decent software company to 1-deliver untested software 2-let users in the dark.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Signature du problème :

  Nom d’événement de problème:          APPCRASH

  Nom de l’application:          CoreSync.exe

  Version de l’application:          1.1.3.24

  Horodatage de l’application:          52aaef95

  Nom du module par défaut:          ntdll.dll

  Version du module par défaut:          6.1.7601.18247

  Horodateur du module par défaut:          521ea8e7

  Code de l’exception:          c0000005

  Décalage de l’exception:          00097114

  Version du système:          6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48

  Identificateur de paramètres régionaux:          1036

  Information supplémentaire n° 1:          a7aa

  Information supplémentaire n° 2:          a7aa91f17ea749d42a4de3b390fa5b3d

  Information supplémentaire n° 3:          a7aa

  Information supplémentaire n° 4:          a7aa91f17ea749d42a4de3b390fa5b3d

Lire notre déclaration de confidentialité en ligne :

  http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=104288&clcid=0x040c

Si la déclaration de confidentialité en ligne n’est pas disponible, lisez la version hors connexion :

  C:\Windows\system32\fr-FR\erofflps.txt

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Update: I have found a log file, that seems to have been created at the time of ACC update. Log file path is C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Adobe Creative Cloud\CoreSync\customhook\CoreSyncInstall.log. ---[Begin]--- -install Running in Update mode Install path given: 001CF4D0 Install path exists! Installing application Running on 64 bit machine! 008F3FC0Script run successful.Locale setting script succeeded! 00EC57E8Script run successful.Registry set script succeeded! Wait for explorer restart process timed out! ---[End]---

===========================================

UPDATE 2:

I have been able to capture an internal snapshot of the crash, using Visual C 2008 debugger (installed on my machine). This trace should help your developers.

Attached is a screen snapshot.

Please don't hesitate to ask if you need more information.

============================================

ScreenShot007.jpg

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Adobe Employee ,
Jan 09, 2014

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Hi Brian,

I dropped you a private message to help progress this issue.  Please get in touch with me at your convenience.

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Participant ,
Jan 10, 2014

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Thanks, derekajack Looking it up now.

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Participant ,
Jan 16, 2014

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Problem is still occuring randomly, and it seems distiller may now be involved as well. I just re-opened an Adobe support ticket dealing with the same problem.

I mention distiller because CoreSync had just crashed on my laptop again, and soon after, a window popped up stating distiller could not run because an instance was already running.

I have also replied to your most recent email.

I have done a search of CoreSync on the c drive of my laptop and discovered what seems to be between 10 and 30 crashes in the past month, depending on what the many report, dump and log files actually mean, and especially on Dec. 26. I'll email report, dump and log files of today's latest crash to you.

Thanks,

Brian

Message was edited by: Brian of SummaeStudios

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Adobe Employee ,
Jan 17, 2014

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Brian of SummaeStudios I am sorry you are continuing to face CoreSync errors.  I do see that you did update case 185024638.  I have also submitted a request that a member of our support team contact you directly to evaluate your current situation and error conditions.

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Participant ,
Jan 17, 2014

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Hi Jeff,

I am still in town today, so though they called my home number, I wasn't available. They did call though,

At this point I have to admit I've more faith in you guys here on this forum than phone tech though.

I did offer to submit the crash reports, dumps and logs to them should they so desire though, as I did already for Derek.

Thank you for your time and effort,

Brian

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 11, 2014

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The post by 10. bbonnefont helped me, he said:

[...] I have found a log file [...] C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Adobe Creative Cloud\CoreSync\customhook\CoreSyncInstall.log

So I looked at my file and I get

============================================================

-install

Install path given: 0042F8B8

Install path exists!

Installing application

MSVCR100.dll exists.Running on 64 bit machine!

00234088Script run successful.Locale setting script succeeded!

000E57F0Script run successful.Registry set script succeeded!

Privilege getting failed! Could not get Shell window.

WARN: NOT Running as adminuser

============================================================

So my error seems to be a simpler problem.  The user I login and run applications as (I’ll say is user1), and the user used to install CreativeCloud is adminuser.  I’m running on Win7x64 under VMWare.  I’m doing this to evauate the software before I install it on my “real machine” (vmware calls this the host machine).  Given these problems I will probably not install it on the host machine.

I’ve come across applications that require you to make the user who wants to use the software an admin user, then install the software and start it up and register it, and then turn the user back to a non-admin user.  While I don’t personally like that approach I’m wondering if that is the approach required to make Adobe Creative Cloud applications work.  Does anyone know if this approach is recommended by adobe to solve this problem?

Does anyone know if this problem is related to the problem other users on this post are having?

Thanks to all the other users who have posted, and to Adobe for letting us users share this information as it is VERY helpful to people who run into problems to know that it's not just us, and to be able to follow along with fixes (I've bookmarked this page).

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Adobe Employee ,
Mar 18, 2014

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Hi T0mic2265,

Installing under a non-admin Windows login should not be a problem, and the message in your CoreSyncInstall.log would be expected in that case.

Just to be clear, are you also seeing CoreSync crash? Do you see Windows pop up a dialog saying "Core Sync has stopped working"? Are you seeing a crash regularly or by following repeatable steps?

Thanks,

Ben

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Adobe Employee ,
Jan 17, 2014

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Bbonnefont and Brian of SummaeStudios, I have sent you PMs.

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Participant ,
Jan 17, 2014

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Hi Ben,

I have replied to your PM postively as regards your message.

Thank you for your effort,

Brian

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Explorer ,
Jan 18, 2014

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I seem to be having this same problem as well.  Pretty much identical to what Brian of SummaeStudios has reported.

I also have seen the message that Destiller can't start because another copy of it is running when rebooting.  The message was appearing a few times before I started to see the recent CoreSync crashes.  The CoreSync crashes happen on and off throughout the day.  I've turned off the fileing syncing hoping that will help but given what I read above I doubt it will make any difference.  (as I write this Core Sync just crashed again, so no, turning off file syncing doesn't help)

I am unwilling to uninstall all my Adobe Applications, setting them up is a huge amount of pain.  I won't uninstall them without a very good reason.  I also won't make new administrative accounts on my computer.  Both are wastes of time and clearly have nothing to do with the problem.  An early message in this thread has someone from Adobe asking a user to remove a windows user application directory with the support person's windows user name in the path.  That kind of request makes me think you need to escalate this to someone that understands windows software development.

One thing that may have some connection, I recently downgraded the version of nVidia video drivers I was using from the current 332.21 to 331.58 because the 332.21 drivers do not appear to have CUDA support correctly setup and when installed I lose the ability to run any CUDA apps.  331.58 doesn't have this problem, so I downgraded.  A user above mentioned some issue with gpu sniffer so it could be related.  I've reported my issue with 332.21 removing CUDA support (not just from Adobe apps but even CUDA SDK apps) to nVidia but they are ignoring me.

I couldn't see a way to open a support ticket on this, most of the support/help links pushed me to this forum (and this post).  I have debuggers and can use them if that would help.

Right now I'd just like the errors to stop at this point.  I don't care about syncing files or syncing fonts nearly as much as I care about being able to install and run the Creative Cloud apps I'm paying for.  The "cloud" stuff is not important to me.  Tell me how to make it stop but still be able to install and update (even manually) the apps and I'll be on my way.

Matt

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Most Valuable Participant ,
Feb 13, 2014

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Matthew Sorrels wrote:

Right now I'd just like the errors to stop at this point.  I don't care about syncing files or syncing fonts nearly as much as I care about being able to install and run the Creative Cloud apps I'm paying for.  The "cloud" stuff is not important to me. 

Tell me how to make it stop but still be able to install and update (even manually) the apps and I'll be on my way.

Hi Matt,

If you want to update your installed CC tools yourself (manually) without going through the Creative Cloud Desktop app, you can download the individual patch packages with these collections:

All Adobe CC Updates: Direct Links for Windows

All Adobe CC Updates: Direct Links for Mac OS

Hope those help!

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New Here ,
Jan 20, 2014

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I am also having the exact same problem. It is very frustrating.

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Explorer ,
Jan 21, 2014

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I have managed to capture a crash with Visual Studio 2010 and create a mini-dump with heap.  Any developer should be able to take this and using PDB files created when the release was made should be able to see exactly why it crashed on my computer.   I can't understand why Adobe isn't shipping a crash handler with their apps, this is pretty much a requirement to handle customer problems.

The crash dump can be found here:

http://www.pontari.com/CoreSync.dmp

I'd be happy to open a ticket if I could figure out how to do that, every time I go looking around Adobe's site to find out how to open a support ticket I get send to an unhelpful FAQ or this thread.

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Adobe Employee ,
Jan 21, 2014

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Matthew,

Thank you for the crash dump. We are currently investigating this issue and will let you know when any more information is available.

Kind regards,

Ben

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Participant ,
Jan 31, 2014

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My CoreSync crashes seem to have stopped in the past few days, so I'm guessing there was a server-side fix? Either that or I just jinxed myself horribly.

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Explorer ,
Feb 02, 2014

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I think you spoke too soon.  My last crash was last Sunday, Jan 26.  CoreSync started doing something on the hard drive and then promptly crashed.  I dismissed the first one and it crashed again a minute or two later.  Then was quiet all week.  Today, Feb 2 it once again promptly crashed at 2:00pm (in Seattle).  I think it must do something on a weekly timer.

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 02, 2014

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[1] To Brian, Matthew, Henry, Soulflare007 and others silently suffering:

[1.0] I have the same Coresync crash issue for a while.

[1.1] I believe (not sure) that Coresync gives up trying to communicate with the servers after some time, several days. But if you reboot the computer, it starts again, and crashes.

[1.2] I have been in contact with Adobe second or third line support, they sent me an instrumented version of the Coresync program (i.e. a version with extra debugging information written on the fly to log files), in order for me to test and send them back trace & debug information - which I did. I have no news since, for one week+ now.

[1.3] With this Coresync instrumented version it appears that if you select (File Sync ON) and (Font Sync OFF) in ACC (Adobe Creative Cloud) Preferences (the "gear" icon) [That is, you switch Font Sync off], Coresync stops crashing.

You should try this. Please let us know the results.

[2] To Ben Mordue, and Adobe support people

I can't understand that Adobe leaves customers in the mud like this. Apparently a workaround is available (see [1.3]) - it's working for me. Why not publish it, or at least supply it to complaining customers?

[3] To managers at Adobe

Who do you think you are? Are you competent? Is this behaviour professional?

You may think you control the business - but a lot of people are fed up with you.

If a competitor with a decent offering shows up, you are dead.

My email address is bruno@bonnefont.com.

Best regards,

Bruno Bonnefont

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Adobe Employee ,
Feb 03, 2014

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Bruno,


Thank you for posting the workaround you found. As we've been so far unable to reproduce this issue in-house, we were not aware that this workaround existed. We are still investigating this issue.

Kind regards,

Ben Mordue

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Adobe Employee ,
Feb 04, 2014

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Bruno,

firstly, let me apologise for not keeping you updated while we analysed the files you shared with us.

There is complexity in understanding the root cause.  I want to ensure you that we are working on this as a priority.

With regards to the workaround, this is indeed useful.  I'd like to have our team look in to this to understand the behaviour before we share this publicly.

Thank you for working with us on this.  As we progress, I commit to keeping you informed of progress.

Please use me as you primary contact if you have any questions or concerns.

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New Here ,
Feb 05, 2014

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New Here ,
Feb 13, 2014

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I have been freaking out for a week with this stupid problem. Finally found this post and uninstalled the creative cloud app and of course now my machine is stable. I'm pretty pissed at Adobe. Not like I can cancel either because students are locked in for 12 months. Really haven't seen value in the subscription and wish I could end it.

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Adobe Employee ,
Feb 14, 2014

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Josh,

apologies for the inconvenience you've experienced.  I'd like to understand more about the issue your having.  I've sent you a private message with and ask for additional information.

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 02, 2014

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I was getting the "Core Sync has stopped working" CC failure as well.  Quit the app and it went away.  Updated CC today; the error continues to happen at least once an hour.  What to do?

cc1.JPGcc2.JPG

cc3.JPG

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Adobe Employee ,
Mar 03, 2014

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Hi Mark,

apologies for the incovenience.  As you can see, we are working with others who are experiencing a similar issue.  It would help if we can work with you also.  I'll send you a message with further details.

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 03, 2014

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Derek,

Yes, I can help.  I sent a reply to your email.

Mark

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Participant ,
Mar 12, 2014

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Hi Derek,

If you're interested in more data/logs, feel free to send me a message. I reinstalled Creative Cloud Desktop a few hours ago, and large file syncing keeps getting interrupted by Core Sync crashes.

= = = = =

Core Sync has stopped working

- - - - -

Problem signature:

  Problem Event Name:          APPCRASH

  Application Name:          CoreSync.exe

  Application Version:          1.2.0.652

  Application Timestamp:          52f989e1

  Fault Module Name:          ntdll.dll

  Fault Module Version:          6.1.7601.18247

  Fault Module Timestamp:          521ea8e7

  Exception Code:          c0000005

  Exception Offset:          00097114

  OS Version:          6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48

  Locale ID:          3081

  Additional Information 1:          a7aa

  Additional Information 2:          a7aa91f17ea749d42a4de3b390fa5b3d

  Additional Information 3:          a7aa

  Additional Information 4:          a7aa91f17ea749d42a4de3b390fa5b3d

= = = = =

Still experienced crashes after disabling File Sync, but not since also disabling Font Sync.

Win 7-64

Creative Cloud 1.4.1.351

CloudSync v.1.2.0.652 x86

Ben

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 12, 2014

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Re: Ben's case.  I have File Sync enabled and Font Sync disabled.

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Participant ,
Mar 13, 2014

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Hi All,

It is now approaching 3 months later and I am still experiencing CoreSync crashes. Also some weird thing seems to happen with Acrobat Distiller where it tries to run about a dozen times at once every so often. Finally, my CC files are reaching the point of no longer synccing period on my laptop, which is really messing with my ability to update websites while not at home.

I have asked Ben Mordue to let me try the debugging version of CC, Which he asked me to try in mid-January, but I somehow seem to have missed. I did however submit many log, crash and dump files awhile back, but hadn't heard anything further about those.

I just hope this gets fixed in the near future...and even fantasize that I could use CC to keep Lightroom catalog files in sync between my laptop and desktop, using smart previews, as I'd read about in another thread using Dropbox.

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Explorer ,
Mar 13, 2014

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I'm still getting the CoreSync crashes, but not quite as often as before.  About once a week sometimes twice a week.  Coresync starts doing something (hard drive starts working, perfmon shows Coresync accessing files) and near the end of it, rather than working, it crashes.  At least weekly.

I'm also getting the zillion Acrobat Distiller can't start because it's already started type messages everytime I have to reboot my computer.  Would love to submit a ticket for that but other than suggesting features I don't see any formal support request system on Adobe.com.

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Participant ,
Mar 14, 2014

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Ben Mordue did send me a debugging version of CC back in mid-January, but I somehow got distracted between this thread, the adobe phone support, and actual projects I was trying to complete, and so never actually installed it. I admit to dropping the ball on that one.

I will give it a shot now on both machines in the hope that it might solve this problem that has recently again gotten worse for me.

I did also send off an email to Ben to let me know if there is an updated version available I should use instead.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 12, 2014

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Update: This problem is resolved for me, and I hope for others as well.  Derek and team were very helpful these past few weeks, capturing error data and making updates.   I have now been running nearly five full days without a single crash.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 24, 2014

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I am still having this problem every hour.  What was the fix?

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Adobe Employee ,
Apr 25, 2014

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Hi,

we will be pushing out an update for Creative Cloud Desktop next that will include a fix for this issue.  I'll check in again on this thread once the update is available. 

I'd just like to thank you for your patience while we resolved this issue.

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Participant ,
May 03, 2014

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Hi,

Just an update. I am still having issues on both of my Windows 7 64x computers with CoreSync still crashing and then after crashing using up to 50% of the cpu on my laptop and over 12% on my desktop. I largely just leave file syncing paused at this point.

I do hope the next update resolves this.

I also hope that sometime in the future syncing could be set up to sync Lightroom catalogs between computers; that would be awesome.

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Adobe Employee ,
May 05, 2014

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Hi Brian,

the update with the fix for this issue will be available soon.

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New Here ,
May 16, 2014

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Oddly enough, I just started experiencing this issue today, during and after a CC update to 3 apps (Bridge, Photoshop, AE), bringing me up-to-date as of May 16, 2014. Error happens every 5 or 10 or so minutes. Intolerable; after finding it in Task Manager I killed the process and renamed the exe (C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Adobe Creative Cloud\CoreSync\CoreSync.exe) to keep it from relaunching. I'll report again next time I reboot if the problem remains after restoring the rename.

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New Here ,
Aug 20, 2014

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I have been seeing the same annoying problem recently.  Did not know what Core Sync is initial and I still do not know what it does that I care about.  It has a rather uninformative name but now we all know this is part of Adobe's CC, which I also reluctantly pay for.  My attitude with persistent problems like this is to stop paying and stop using defective products.  I do not have time for long phone calls with tech service and confusing fixes.  Being heavily invested in Adobe photo processing products this is not an easy option though.  I will expect Adobe to produce a defect free version of this Core Sync program as soon as possible.  I will not create any new use accounts or reinstall anything.  I would however like to know (functionally!!) what is not working and what if any work around are there.  Is it just that we have to manually check for updates on occasion?

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 24, 2014

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Three months goes by and Adobe still think it is ok to provide us with expensive second rate software and no meaningful response to our CoreSync crash problems. I suppose it's only frustration that leads me to add to this thread as I've no additional information to impart - that and the feeling that if we keep quiet too long Adobe may think they have some satisfied customers out here. Just for the record, Adobe - you don't!

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