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Goodbye Adobe

Engaged ,
May 09, 2016

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You have ruined my day for the last time. I've worked with you for 20 years and I've had enough of programs that are bloated, slow, crash prone and simply don't do what they say they're going to do. I am getting rid of Creative Cloud. There are alternatives to Adobe and here is an article that shows you many of them. http://mac.appstorm.net/?s=alternative+apps+to+everything+in+adobe+creative+cloud&blog=mac&term=revi...

I hope this lazy, greedy company gets the fate it deserves.

Have a nice day!

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Goodbye Adobe

Engaged ,
May 09, 2016

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You have ruined my day for the last time. I've worked with you for 20 years and I've had enough of programs that are bloated, slow, crash prone and simply don't do what they say they're going to do. I am getting rid of Creative Cloud. There are alternatives to Adobe and here is an article that shows you many of them. http://mac.appstorm.net/?s=alternative+apps+to+everything+in+adobe+creative+cloud&blog=mac&term=revi...

I hope this lazy, greedy company gets the fate it deserves.

Have a nice day!

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LEGEND ,
May 09, 2016

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This is a user Forum, so you are not really addressing Adobe here, even though some Adobe employees thankfully have been dropping by.

I find your post unfortunate.

programs that are bloated, slow, crash prone and simply don't do what they say they're going to do

may qualify as a rant but not as a proper description of the issues that have frustrated you so.

Consequently you do not diminish a possible suspicion that your problems with Adobe software might have been your own fault (in part at least).

I think the regulars on this Forum are naturally not ignorant of Photoshop bugs and issues (including ones concerning Adobe in general) but still are able to get their work done with the application.

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LEGEND ,
May 10, 2016

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If you think any of the apps in your link are Photoshop beaters then think again as they are not. If you seriously want an alternative try Affinity, Gimp, Sketch or Corel Painter 2016. I would say only Painter comes even close to matching Photoshop and in some areas beats it hands down, but its much harder to learn with an even steeper learning curve than PS.

I can't say I have problems with slowness and true bugs in the current build are actually hard to find. Adobe's marketing though is unfortunate as they imply Photoshop is suitable for just about anyone and its not, that's the whole purpose of having Elements in their catalogue. Photoshop is and always will be a high end  professional tool that amateurs can dabble in, so lets not pretend everything is going to be easy going for casual users who want professional results without professional skills. It sounds to me as if you'll be happier with something less demanding so good luck with whatever you migrate too.

Terri

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LEGEND ,
May 10, 2016

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Photoshop is and always will be a high end  professional tool

As the OP made a point of mentioning the length of time they have worked with Adobe product/s they probably consider themselves an experienced user.

Though based on their Forum activity (Dreamweaver, Animate, …) I wonder if they may not have picked the Photoshop Forum kind of by mistake.

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Engaged ,
May 10, 2016

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Thanks, all, for your posts here. You're right I am just venting, and I could have chosen any forum, but I am finished with Adobe for good. I find it fascinating that such a huge company can produce such mediocre results. I think its long, profitable ride is over.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 10, 2016

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I still think you have compatibility issues more than anything else. If this is Photoshop you're talking about, most likely with a buggy video driver, a font manager, things like that. If you see crashing, that's almost certainly the video driver.

You may go elsewhere, but chances are you get problems there too. I'd try a system cleanout first - uninstall everything you don't need, update all drivers. Temporarily disable everything that might be suspicious, like plugins or fonts.

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Engaged ,
May 10, 2016

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I've tried almost everything, including contacting Adobe by phone and getting them to look through my computer themselves. They did find errors but fixing them didn't help. I did the same with Apple, who found minor errors as well. No overall improvement. I've reinstalled the programs and had fonts verified and use a regular maintenance tool.

Adobe tech support is great and the staff is great. I think I have a big-picture issue and there's no forum for that.

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LEGEND ,
May 10, 2016

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If I may ask: Can you afford »switching horses in mid-stream«?

Will contractors and customers be able/willing to handle a new workflow/file formats/…?

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Engaged ,
May 10, 2016

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That's what kept me from changing before now. As a lone freelancer I won't be able to get work from bigger outfits because I won't use their software. But I'm hoping the payoff will be worth it. I'm downgrading from CC to CS4, which works fine even on my iMac. I can always return to CS4 if needed but I intend to get rid of all Adobe programs because the increase in efficiency will be worth any lost business. Some new programs, like Hype, which I'm using to replace Animate (Flash) don't have all the functionality of Adobe programs but I can work around most of them by offering my clients other ideas. Most programs are a lot cheaper than old Adobe CS programs.

Judging from the link I provided earlier, I'm not the only person doing this.

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LEGEND ,
May 10, 2016

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GraphicsGeezer wrote:

don't have all the functionality of Adobe programs but I can work around most of them by offering my clients other ideas.

Trying to change what the client wants compared to providing what they actually want is never a good idea. You are basically telling them that you can't do it so about this idea.

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LEGEND ,
May 10, 2016

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I'm considering moving this to Community Connections. Everyone okay with that?

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LEGEND ,
May 10, 2016

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Everyone okay with that?

No protest from my side.

the increase in efficiency will be worth any lost business

Have you tested the alternative software exhaustively yet?

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Engaged ,
May 10, 2016

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Perfectly willing to have you move it.

No I haven't tested any new software. Currently testing Hype, and quite pleased. Hasn't crashed yet and works pretty fast.

As for telling the client I can't do what he wants, I'm a small shop with a lot of small business clients. They generally leave design decisions up to me and they're generally very happy.

I wonder if Adobe thinks about how many jack-of-all-trade customers they have? Some programs I use only every few months and have to learn them all over every time.

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New Here ,
May 23, 2016

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I can understand your frustration. However I personally feel that Photoshop is still the best for some obvious reasons -

1) Its the oldest software and pioneer in Graphic designing so the interface is more familiar to me and other designers.

2) Secondly it offers many features under one software and for many tasks that I regularly perform I need not look for another software.

I love this software and will continue to use it forever I am sure.

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LEGEND ,
May 23, 2016

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Adobe does have its faults and sometimes can be frustrating, but like you , I think it is far and away the best software company in the world for creative professionals and enthusiastic hobbyists. When you think that the company began largely as a developer of a printer language, Postscript and an associated font library and look at what it is today, its quite amazing.

The subscription model gets criticized but in the case of Photoshop it has given access to thousands of people who otherwise would not be able to afford to buy the programs. Even with the entire Creative Cloud suite its pretty good value for money. People forget that Premiere,Indesign, Illustrator etc when bought together used to cost thousands to buy and even at the subscription price takes years of subscribing before the cost of buying becomes better value. In some countries its even possible to get a tax concession as leasing the software is part and parcel of running a business.

There is some talk of Apple looking on Adobe as an acquisition target which would be a disaster as they traditionally believe in selling on an exclusivity basis and I suspect would position Adobe solely as a high end software developer again like Autodesk. Those rumors have been around for several years now, but as the pile of cash Apple is sitting on grows and grows, its inevitable sooner or later they will buy something. I only hope Adobe don't let it be them.

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Most Valuable Participant ,
May 23, 2016

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>hope Adobe don't let it be them

Adobe is a stock company, so anyone who buys a majority of the stock runs the company

Subject, of course, to US laws concerning creating a monopoly

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LEGEND ,
May 23, 2016

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Sadly that's true. Hostile takeovers are all the rage it seems. Donald Trump has just succeeded with a hostile takeover of the Republican Party in the US and who would have believed that possible 12 months ago

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 23, 2016

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MissTake wrote:

There is some talk of Apple looking on Adobe as an acquisition target

Those speculations have been around for years, but it seems to me Adobe doesn't fit into Apple's carefully crafted image one bit. Apple hasn't had any focus on the pro market for many years.

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Community Beginner ,
May 27, 2016

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Touche

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 02, 2016

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Apple's CEO had a very public quote this spring ... he had no understanding of why in the world anyone would buy a desk-top computer these days.

Really ... he said that nearly word-for-word.

Apple has become all about devices.

They're still selling expensive Macs that are having more and more functional issues when people try to work with them ... for their $6G's or more of investment. But ... who really cares about that "desktop" market anyways ... bunch of dinosaurs ...

So ... do ya really think Adobe's big programs would fit well into a d-top free environment?

Naw ... Apple doesn't want Adobe ... not anymore. And as a 30-some year PC user, I still find that very sad.

Neil

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Engaged ,
Jun 02, 2016

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Do Adobe products work well on PCs? If so I'll buy one!

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LEGEND ,
Jun 02, 2016

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I don't have any complaints at the moment. Running a Windows PC with the CC apps. Not saying you'd just jump over to the Windows side and see all problems vanish, though.

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Participant ,
Jun 02, 2016

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Hi Neil,

We have a say in French " Never say fountain I Wont drink your water"...

Moreover hostile takeovers have sometime results unpredictable. I personally was taken in the middle of one when the bank, Paribas, I worked for in 1999 was taken over by Banque Nationale de Paris (BNP). We were in the middle of a friendly merge with Société Générale. Suddenly BNP realized the danger of seeing our bank and the SG becoming an important group both in the field of Merchant business (Media (we co-financed the movie Cyrano de Bergerac with Gerard Depardieu in the leading role) and in the usual deposit business. The share price of our bank proposed for the merger by BNP was very interesting. Paribas had 75% of his employees abroad and they considered worth making the move and sell their stock not being concerned by the 130 years history and successes of the group and its culture. BNP got us but not SG whose trade unions made a huge campaign against the merger with BNP. At Paribas the culture was so that we were never influenced by trade unions. To join the bank it was mandatory to be fluent at least in English, and if you said you spoke Japanese or Chinese it was the red carpet. Self initiative for proposing a project was a rule from the beginner to the top level etc...That's how the company worked and had important successes like being part of the building of the Transiberian railway, the first to make deals in ECU before the Euro was created, etc..We were proud to be in such a company and the merger was a real and very depressing shock joining a group still having all the defects of a former nationalized institution.For instance I was asked to merge the two training centers, at the first meeting I proposed for my BNP colleagues to use the familiar "tu" expression instead of "vous" (equivalent of respectful "you" in English); A guy from BNP raised his hand and said "I have to get the permission from my boss"!!!!! If I had agreed we would have had to wait a week for the whole hierarchy to give its green light!

This little example shows how difficult it is to predict the outcome of a takeover. the soundest of companies may have great surprises and very nasty ones. I would personally consider a merger of Adobe with Apple a disaster for the customers considering the way Apple is geared with a total lack of consideration for them, we have seen recently the case of Quicktime security problems resulting from its attitude. I don"t always accept some of the ways Adobe treats its customers but in general there's nothing too serious about it and the problems could be solved quickly if the top management accepts to follow the rule that in the end it's the customer who is right because he is facing the market and his clients. A top management should always be aware of the danger resulting of being too proud of one's successes and take as a rule to show a humble and low profile instead of bragging which is in the human nature of behavior...

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LEGEND ,
Jun 03, 2016

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Most software works as well on a PC as on a Mac these days not just Adobe offerings. The advantage of the PC is price and serviceability. In the event of something being incompatible like a graphics card you can easily swap it for a different kind which is deliberately made difficult with Macs which is why we see so many GPU issues here. Granted a Mac generally will look nicer, but is that all that important if its a desktop PC living under a desk? You can anyhow get really beautiful cases if you want. A friend of mine bought a high end PC and had everything inside transferred to a brushed aluminum case, which does look awesome. Would you believe doing that cost less than buying a high end Mac? Personally I just look on these boxes as tools so couldn't be bothered to do that. You can also customize PCs with very elaborate cooling systems allowing you to boost processing power sometimes as much as 40 % by overclocking and I'm not sure you could easily do that with a Mac.

Sadly Apple have moved the business model from business to consumer now. I wonder what the late Steve Jobs would make of this? I suspect he wouldn't totally approve as he was pro innovation. Have you noticed there has not been any really exciting products since he died? All they do is build on the success of existing products and cut costs and risk by not taking a chance on a brand new set of ideas . Anyone here think an Apple watch is indispensable? They are working on driverless cars and the Internet of Things so will remain immensely profitable but by focusing on the consumer market. 

Adobe fans may breathe a sigh of relief as there is a lot of city gossip about Apple buying Time Warner now. That would make a lot of sense as they have a vast collection of assets to stream to Apple devices from film, tv and music, not to mention cable and broadband networks.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 03, 2016

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Terri Stevens wrote:

Sadly Apple have moved the business model from business to consumer now. I wonder what the late Steve Jobs would make of this?

I think it's fairly obvious that Steve Jobs was the architect behind this move, ever since the original iPod (that's pod not pad). For as long as I can remember, Apple's marketing - and truly brilliant marketing it has been - has been directed towards vague entities like "youth", "trendy", "urban", maybe a little dash of "creative", but not in the sense that we understand it. More like "I'm a creative person - I can do anything I want".

But "professional"? Not on the list. To us, Apple's definition of creative would spell "amateur".

As for Mac vs. Win - the most obvious difference from a user's perspective is that Windows is very much hands off. It just doesn't do a lot if things that OS X does. And that's a good thing IMO, because it improves reliability and ruggedness.

Take color management for instance. Windows just doesn't do it - it's all left to the application itself. In OS X, there's lots of things going on with ColorSync (for which there is no Windows equivalent) - which is fine as long as it works, but the potential for bugs interfering is very much higher.

And bugs happen. A while ago there was a little publicized OS X bug that affected Lightroom users. All of a sudden they noticed black clipping on screen, everything below level 16 or so was clipped to solid black. And there was nothing users could do, except wait for an update from Apple.

Same with video driver issues, obviously.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 03, 2016

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And there was nothing users could do, except wait for an update from Apple.

In the meantime they could always blame Adobe for Macintosh’s mistakes … and a few of them probably did.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 03, 2016

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Oh yes, you bet they did

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 03, 2016

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GraphicsGeezer wrote:

Do Adobe products work well on PCs? If so I'll buy one!

Yes. In fact, one could get the feeling from reading these forums that Windows works better than Mac these days.

You certainly get more for your money.

At my freelance studio, we just put together a PC for around $800 that is more powerful than the highest-spec brand new Mac Pro you can buy. Granted, that was partially with used parts from eBay, but more power at less than 10% of the cost is pretty nice! I still use my 2011 Mac Pro when I need to work on the go and I haven't had any big issues with it either.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 03, 2016

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The new nvidia 1080/1070 cards are going to be a kick in the posterior ... huge increase in capability at the same price as their mid/upper current cards. I've already seen a couple post-houses which are mostly Mac saying they are at this point considering the here-to-fore Unthinkable ...

They will ​so​ be able to power stuff for X dollars on PC, needing X times 3 to 5 on Mac to even compete ... that it makes no sense to continue buying Macs.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 14, 2016

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GraphicsGeezer wrote:

Do Adobe products work well on PCs? If so I'll buy one!

Absolutely. I don't know why everyone is so hell bent on buying a Mac to do design work. I use both PC and Mac and the PC is a lot cheaper than a Mac.

I guess it's a layover from past years when Macs were very powerful compared to the desktop computer that PCs were, they were designed to be office workers, not design workers. But PCs have come into their own in the past 20 years.

Stick to OTF for fonts and you won't have an issue.

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New Here ,
Jun 14, 2016

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Well, I'm using a PC and after that last update Adobe CC is not working well on mine.  It's sucking down memory big time.  I noticed last night after closing both Lightroom and Photoshop that memory usage by Photoshop actually went up and that was after it was closed for 15 min.  Neither of those programs still should have been showing up as an active process, but they were.   Something is definitely wrong.

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Explorer ,
Jul 07, 2016

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Little late on the reply but I thought I'd add this.

I started non linear editing on the original mac quadra Avid Media Composer system. I distinctly remember when Apple came out with the new (MacPro, I think) chassis, it did not have enough slots for all the video hardware and was useless as an editing system.

I remember the announcement from the then Apple CEO saying that "Apple sees ZERO future for Apple in the video post production world." Anyone else remember that?

Avid had to build their own "Pizza Boxes". Expensive hardware add-ons to accommodate all the extra cards. They also started porting to PCs.

A short time later Apple released FinalCut and completely changed the world of Post Production costs.

Never believe a CEO when he says never.

I have several Macs and several PCs, so I really have no loyalties. I do see Apple discontinuing desktops. Every release of their software "Decontents" or "Dumbs Down" the power (Final Cut X and the Apple office suites are often heard complaints). The only explanation I see is that they want you to be able do all your work on an i-device.

My 2 cents.

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New Here ,
Jun 06, 2016

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Since I find the prior post pertinent and finding that this forum is without any place to actually ask a question - "just spend a few MORE hours browsing irrelevant issues and forget about ever stumbling across a text box which is labeled 'ask your question here'," here's my reply -

I purchased the original CS(1) in 2002 and used it for many years. When I attempted to either do a Windows System Restore, or to upgrade Adobe Acrobat, about 2009, all my CS applications became inactivated. I contacted Adobe & I was offered a copy of CS2 as an internet download. I successfully downloaded CS2 and until recently used it. (Mainly Photoshop) I have now had computer hardware problems & it appears that my hard drive will have to be wiped clean, or replaced and all programs reinstalled. The Adobe forums state that old authorization codes will no longer work. I am interested in the old versions of Adobe Photoshop & I would like to know if a license may be purchased to activate CS2 (with no tech support needed)? I see numerous CS2 software collections listed on eBay. I purchased a license for CS(1). Has this expired? Or can I use CS2? Or do these Software collections expire? I would be happy to purchase a CS2 Collection and even to pay Adobe for a license to use this software (legally). The prospect of having my programs and my data 'in the Clouds' is not very appealing. - This refers to MS XP and I'm not going to upgrade to any other OS.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 06, 2016

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The activation info would need more staffer-type assistance ... RameezKhan​ or Kevin-Monahan​ perchance?

As to the other part ... neither the programs or your media would be 'in the cloud' with the CC programs ... which is one of those things that confuses many people about the way Adobe named this style of product lines. The programs are downloaded to your computer, and of course all the media is on your computer ... so for basic operation it's the same.

What there is available over 'the cloud' are other assets like stock libraries, viewing/using the Behance system, with all the various creative people posting projects & stuff there to view, and syncing your work-spaces & keyboard shortcut setup so if working on another machine, you can 'sync' that to your usual working manner.

You can if you choose store a small amount of info on 'your' library out there ... but that's about it for 'cloud' data use. Well, if you really get into it, there are more options ... but I don't think most people use them that much, while some really DO use it all.

Neil

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Adobe Employee ,
Jun 06, 2016

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Hi jp14jp28,

I've replied to your DM.

Thanks,

Rameez

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LEGEND ,
Jun 07, 2016

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Upgrading to Creative Cloud is not an option for you as it will not run on Windows XP, I'm sorry to tell you.

As for buying CS2 on Ebay simply don't. Anyone can download Photoshop CS2 because Adobe has not put into place any checks to ensure the downloader was a legitimate owner of CS2 before the activation servers were switched off. This means literally anyone can download. You are supposed to be an existing Photoshop purchaser and the download site makes it clear that the download is solely for purchasers and is not a free download of an old version of Photoshop-the copies on eBay are therefore always pirated . I would say you've been very open with Adobe here. You paid a great deal of money a few years back and just want to reinstate the copy of Photoshop you paid for, as Adobe don't make anything earlier than CS2 available for download, I think it would be fair for you to download that to your computer. It is a very grey area legally whether you actually should do that, but as you have the previous version and CS2 is eleven years old , Adobe would not demonstrate a very good attitude to its past customers if they complained.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 07, 2016

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With very few exceptions, all Adobe software distributed from the Creative Cloud requires a modern operating system (Win7 or higher) and 64-bit computer.

As Terri said, CS2 activation servers were taken offline several year ago.  Which is why they set up an activation-free serial number to accompany the download on their web site.   It's free for Adobe product owners providing they have an older computer that can still support it.

Error: "Activation Server Unavailable" | CS2, Acrobat 7, Audition 3

Just so you know, there are countless reports in these forums of pirated software being sold on eBay and by some so-called online re-sellers.  In some cases people get fleeced into buying a trial version only to find out later that it's infected with spyware or worse yet,  malware.  Buyer beware!  The waters are infested with sharks.

Good luck!

Nancy O.

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web.com

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