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[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

Explorer ,
May 06, 2013

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I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

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[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

Explorer ,
May 06, 2013

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I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

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Community Beginner ,
May 06, 2013

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I too use my software when traveling. I don't always have internet. So not only do I have to pay a monthly subscription, now I have to buy internet service at the hotels, airports and convention centers. NO WAY! That comes out of my pocket!

Corel is the new answer. Corel knew this was coming and made quality improvements to their products and bought competitors to have their technology. I use Creative Suite maybe 6 to 24 times a year. Always on a last minute basis and have always used my educator discount to buy the software and have it standing by.

I cannot or will not pay for subscription just so its ready. I will swallow the one time cost every few years but no way am I doing this. I have been with Adobe since CS2... Adobe, you have lost a customer.

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New Here ,
Mar 09, 2016

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Yep.  I'm currently seeking a solution/replacement for Adobe products.  I have used perpetual license since 2006 for Master Suite.  I was willing to pay the price for it and I'm not a professional it's just a hobby for me.  So, as a hobbiest - the rental program isn't worth it.  Pay "x" amount of dollars per month when I may not even utilize it for 3 months in a row.  Just not pr

practical for my situation. 

Adobe - you lost another customer.  I here Corel is providing software that works, their customer support is reportedly good too.

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Community Beginner ,
May 06, 2013

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Seconded. All the lovey-dovey marketing talk they come out with about creating solutions and new ways forward really won't change the reality: this is creating a problem.

Does anyone have an email address that we can use to complain directly?

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Community Beginner ,
May 10, 2013

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You have to get the mailing address. Adobe has no way of contacting them other than that or in here. Nice support huh?

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Participant ,
May 06, 2013

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I will stay on current version as long as possible and then switch to other software in 3-5 years. Perpetual license software.

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New Here ,
May 06, 2013

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Agreed. Adobe has just decided to price me out of their software.  I only need/want access to Photoshop and After Effects.  I have never needed access to the full suite. I don't always need/want all the updated tools, some are things that just don't apply to my work every day.  I've been happy updating every 1-3 years.  Adobe is clearly not happy with me updating on my schedule.  Great, I get a discount for the first year of CC and then jacked up pricing after that. Sure, I can turn an account on and off (yay subcriptions!!!! -insert sarcastic tone)  No thank you.  I do understand that software development is costly. I will pay for worthy updates when I need them or have to.  Offer an ala carte option (I pay for the 2 apps I need, not the full suite) and I might reconsider. But at this point, I'm glad I've been investing in alternitives for the last few years.  Like the previous poster, I'll keep using my licences until Adobe cuts me off (probably by the end of the year at their current rate).  Then I'll happly spend my $$ elsewhere. Waiting for Corel to offer their insentive for me to jump over in the next few days.

Nice job Shantanu. Just because you say I will love CC over and over, does not make it true.

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Participant ,
May 06, 2013

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I am 100% against forcing users from standalone products to the Cloud.  I do not trust the cloud.  I do not want my work on the cloud, I do not want to have to have an internet connection to be able to use SW.  I want to buy the SW, install it on my computer and then use it at will as often or rarely as I deem fit without having to pay every month for the privldege.   This is terrible move by Adobe and I hope there are others out there that will reject this development and refuse to buy into the CC.  -- Dan

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Community Beginner ,
May 06, 2013

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I'm 100% against forcing users to rent software.

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Adobe Employee ,
May 06, 2013

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BlueThird wrote:

I'm 100% against forcing users to rent software.

Completely understand. That is why we continue to sell CS6 (indefinately), and plan to update it to support the next major releases of Mac and Windows.

This is covered in the FAQ:

http://www.adobe.com/go/cc_faq

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

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Explorer ,
May 06, 2013

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First, I can't find that in the FAQ anywhere.  How many OS X iupgrades will Adobe continue to support as CS6 grows old in the tooth?  I guarantee that wolnt\'t last very long.

Second, how does that help me if I buy a new camera that is not currently included in CS6?  Since I use Lightroom as well that has the equivalent of Adobe Camera Raw built in, how will they work together in the future when LR is upgraded but PS is not? 

Adobe has lost me as a customer if they continue down this path exclusively.

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Explorer ,
May 06, 2013

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MikeChambers wrote:

BlueThird wrote:

I'm 100% against forcing users to rent software.

Completely understand. That is why we continue to sell CS6 (indefinately), and plan to update it to support the next major releases of Mac and Windows.

This is covered in the FAQ:

http://www.adobe.com/go/cc_faq

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

I'm sorry, but no.  That's not going to cut it.  Eventually camera raw will not support new camera models, and we will be forced into the cloud and the monthly subscription model.  For casual photographers and artists who upgrade every 2 or 3 versions, the subscription is significantly more expensive even at current prices, which will no doubt rise over time.

The professional users won't mind, but the rest of us are left in the dust.  Leaving CS6 available is a stopgap only; we'll all be forced into the cloud eventually.

I've been a long time user of Adobe Photoshop, and I absolutely abhor this move.

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Community Beginner ,
May 06, 2013

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I totally agree!!! Adobe is making a HUGE mistake... seriously. Adobe better rethink its move on FORCING us to a subscription based model. Are you listening Adobe????

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Community Beginner ,
May 06, 2013

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The issue of Camera Raw support is obviously a huge one, and I'm sure I'm not alone in being every bit as cynical on this subject. I simply don't believe that Adobe won't try to force us into switching to Creative Cloud.

For anyone interested, there's a petition at Change.org.

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Explorer ,
May 06, 2013

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Its a total rip off. Apple screwed us out of Final Cut, then Adobe stepped in with an amazing "switch" plan. They should have called it "Bait and Switch". Do the math. $19.99 for CS6 upgrades for the first year, then it jumps to the $49.99 plan. $240ish for year one. $600 for year 2. By Year three you will have paid $1400+ and on and on. I've used Final Cut for the life of the software, and had I paid a monthly fee for all those years the cost would have been way in the very high thousands of dollars. As much as those old hardware based Avid systems that people tried to get out from under once Final Cut was released.

I've been busting my butt trying to get up to speed with the Adobe suite and recently have become so excited about working with it. Finally putting Final Cut somewhat behind me only to have this dumped on my lap. Frustraded is an understatment.

Thanks for letting me vent.

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Participant ,
May 07, 2013

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I can only reitterate what has been said above.

As a customer I do not want a forever and ever obligation to be online and pay Adobe to use its software. 

Please Adobe -  continue with paid perpertual licenses.

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Participant ,
May 07, 2013

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Will Adobe continue to update ACR when new cameras are made?

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Adobe Employee ,
May 07, 2013

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You can find information on camera raw support in this blog post:

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2013/05/adobe-camera-raw-8-support-for-photoshop-cc-and-phot...

--

Because Adobe is still selling Photoshop CS6, those customers will continue to receive updated camera raw file format compatibility via Adobe Camera Raw 8.

--

Hope that helps...

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

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Explorer ,
May 08, 2013

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Adobe plans to sell CS6 indefinitely, but they won't support it or create new versions of it. Why? Everything that is cool is now in the cloud. It's the same thing as telling me I can still download CS1 or CS2—although it is ancient technology and no longer relevant compared to today's software standards, it is still available. There will be no use in downloading CS6 3 to 4 years from now.

I just get upset at how Adobe thinks they know their customerbase by imposing their opinions, telling everyone people prefer the subscription model over standalone.

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Explorer ,
May 08, 2013

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Indefinitely doesn't mean forever. It just means 'as of now we don't have a set end date'.  A year from now, 6 months from now Adobe could say 'with the massive success of CC we've decided to focus all of our energies where our customers want them...on improving the cloud so we'll no longer sell CS 6'

Of course, a year from now they could also decide 'yeah, doesn't work so well, guess what kids, CS 7 will be out.....'

CS 1 adn 2 are pretty much dead in the water. Rendered obsolete by operating systems improving past what they can handle. Eventually the same will happen with CS 3, 5 and 6.

We'll get a few years, and that's presuming that there's no future incompatibility or vulnerability that rears its ugly head in the future.

As to competitors, yes, some will step up. Adobe was there to take in the disgruntled Final Cut folks, and someone else will be there to take the disgruntled Adobe folks. It's the cyclical cycle of business.Within a week or two the forward thinking ones will be putting blurbs on their sites, welcoming new customers.

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Participant ,
May 08, 2013

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I'm curious as to how people still think CS2 does not function on a modern OS? It runs perfectly fine on win7 or 8 (even 64bit), setting it to run as administrator, and running in XP SP3 compatibility mode.

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Engaged ,
May 08, 2013

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I also have running version CS2, CS3, CS4, CS5 & CS6 - all on the same MAC.

(cause compatibility with periphery and Add ons) No Problem.

(And if think nearly 90% of my image editing work can be done with V CS2)

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Participant ,
May 14, 2013

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MikeChambers wrote:

BlueThird wrote:

I'm 100% against forcing users to rent software.

Completely understand. That is why we continue to sell CS6 (indefinately), and plan to update it to support the next major releases of Mac and Windows.

This is covered in the FAQ:

http://www.adobe.com/go/cc_faq

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

So if one kept CS6, would the apps in it be different (less advanced-less features-etc.) than the CC ones?  What is the advantage of going CC?  And, I'm confused on the pricing, a page says for current CS6 users there's a deal for $19.95 (for the first year) per month; which I presume Adobe will decide what the price is after.  I got caught into signing up for a year committment for a single app CC subscription for Muse ($14.95/month), there is no easy to stop this even after the 1 year committment agreement - you can't stop it; at least not through any method I've found online - most want you to call a phone number.  I know that in this day and age there is no reason why if I signed up for it online I can't stop it.  Is this going to be the blueprint for the whole cloud?  And with one app for that cost, what's the cost for all the apps that are in my current CS6 Design Premium?  There's a lot of info left out, and the part that upsets me the most is there's no way out once you're in and have fulfulled the year committment on the agreement.  Somehow I thought my expired credit card would stop it but somehow Adobe was able to bill me with an expired card.  Doesn't leave you with much confidence in what else is being left out and what power they have to keep you from leaving.

Tom

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Community Beginner ,
May 14, 2013

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Hi Mike,

You say that you will be selling CS6 indefinitely. I have three questions:

Will CS6 remain available as an upgrade for users of CS4 and CS5 over the next three years?

Will the price of the upgrade to CS6 fall at any time due to it's age in relation CC features and if so, when?

Will you continue to supply camera RAW plugin updates for CS6 as new cameras come onto the market over the next three years?

I am a retoucher. I rely on being able to open other people's RAW files. I have CS5 and I have had no use for CS6. I have been caught out in the past with not being able to open new Camera RAW files when you bring out new versions of Photoshop. I understand that DNG Converter for CS5 has stopped being upgraded with new camera RAW file details.

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Participant ,
May 15, 2013

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Yes you can upgrade to the already outdated CS6 instead of spending the same money for a brand new CS7 that is not there!

Or get trapped in the new subscription system.

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Participant ,
May 15, 2013

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Participant ,
May 18, 2013

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Corel on their website is offering Photoshop users  the option of purchasing Corel products as an upgrade rather then full price.

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Participant ,
May 18, 2013

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TandemBob wrote:

Corel on their website is offering Photoshop users  the option of purchasing Corel products as an upgrade rather then full price.

True.  But many Adobe Creative Suite users have more than Photoshop.  I did see that they had a suite, and offered a deal for CS users, but I don't think they have the depth of applications (I'm guessing, I have not fully explored Corel's web site).  Who's to say Corel won't go "cloud" next year?  Of course the future is uncertain, nothing is guaranteed. I'd be interested in hearing some input from those who have gone the change to Corel (or a suite of Corel).  Some current Adobe projects may not be able to be worked on in Corel, they do have their own extensions making them application dependant.

Time will tell...

Tom

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Contributor ,
May 18, 2013

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All I know is that  with CS7,8,9, and X - Adobe would have received my business.

With CC, Adobe will get $0.00 from me.

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Explorer ,
May 19, 2013

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Forcing a subscription model down user throats (under the subterfuge of the "cloud") is an amazingly egomaniacal move.

It reminds me of how Quark committed corporate suicide and ceded their dominance to inDesign. Now it's Adobe that is the arrogant bully.

I suggest we are about to witness a repeat of history.

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Explorer ,
May 19, 2013

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https://www.copy.com/include/images/images-std/about-copycrane.png

Ta heck with 20 gigs Creative Cloud storage at $50.00 a month!

Check this link out for 15 gigs at $0.00 per month... perpetually! For Ever..

Click this link to grab an extra 5 gigs to make it 20 gigs! perpetually! For Ever..

https://copy.com?r=IxfiUJ

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Participant ,
May 19, 2013

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History will tell but in 20 years kids will say Adobe? what did they do who were they?

Adobe is on its way to being extinct

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Adobe Employee ,
May 06, 2013

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MatthewRPearse wrote:

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

Best regards - Matt

Matt,

There is a lot of confusion over this and hopefully, I can help clear some of it up.

You do not have to be online in order to use the software. This is covered in our FAQ:

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.html#

--

Do I need ongoing Internet access to use my Creative Cloud desktop applications?

No.  Your Creative Cloud desktop applications (such as Photoshop and Illustrator) are installed directly on your computer, so you won't need an ongoing Internet connection to use them on a daily basis.

You will need to be online when you install and license your software. If you have an annual membership, you'll be asked to connect to the web to validate your software licenses every 30 days.  However, you'll be able to use products for 99 days even if you're offline.

--

(note, we are planning to expand this to 180 days.)

So, you have to be online when you install, but after that, you only need to be online once every 3 months (99 days).

Hope that helps...

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

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Explorer ,
May 06, 2013

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Hi Mike, thanks for the answer. Appreciated. For my work I am offline and the computer that I do my work on does not go online. It creates a problem for me to have my work computer go online every 30 days or 180 days for that matter. Is there some thought for this situation? The previous licensing arrangement worked fine. This forces me into a position that is not optimum, based on what I am seeing online this may be the case for others as well. I sincerely hope this is being looked into as a possible big mistake.

The above statement speaks for the other 20 or 30 people who I work with as well.

best, Matt

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Participant ,
May 07, 2013

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You have a work computer that does not access the internet for 6 months?  You mean you don't have any work email and never even do a google search? Wow.  I feel your pain but I would imagine there are very few creative professionals (and amateurs for that matter) that wouldn't be able to be online just once every 6 months to validate they have a subscription.  Especially in this day and age.  So for 99.9% of people, I can't see that particular thing being a problem at all.

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Participant ,
May 07, 2013

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In fact, to add to my previous post, most people's objections I have seen were because of their mistaken assumption that the Creative Cloud involved having to be constantly connected to the internet.  And many people believe the apps are actually hosted in the cloud!  None of that is true.  We've been very happy so far with Creative Cloud because with CC we've seen much faster release updates with new and better features and bug fixes than in the past and this has allowed us to create better results for our clients faster.  We've increased our profitability, the fixes and updates make the tools more enjoyable to use, our clients are happier, and Adobe can just concentrate on making great products and improving them regularly rather than making some big splashy marketing push every two years just to make it seem worth upgrading.... with no ongoing feedback they get with the frequent CC releases.  And of course this means they get to see more regular income rather than big swings up and down depending on if its a release month/year or not and all the uncertainty involved in that type of release schedule.   Sounds like a WIN-WIN-WIN situation to me.

As for the pricing, its cheaper than the Master Collection was (unless you don't update for about 4 years) plus provides access to more apps and features than the MC ever did. But if you're still using 4 year old software in the web industry in particular, I really feel sorry for you and your clients.  It's like the companies that force their employees to use IE6 in 2013. 

Basically, the web and basically all things digital arew advancing far too fast for Adobe to stick to the old slow method of updating software every 2 years.  By that time, whatever they had been working on over the 2 years could already be obsolete when it is released.

One of my favorite things about modern software and agile development is how fast updates and bug fixes come.  I open the App Store on my iPhone and there are always a bunch of apps waiting to be updated often with cool new features and bug fixes.   Adobe themselves realized they needed to either get with the times or be left behind.  And incidentally, the same applies to you and your business as well. 

And this might sound harsh but if you aren't making enough money to be able to afford $49 a month for ALL the tools you need to do pretty much ANY kind of creative work a client may ask for, it might be time for you to change to another line of work.  Heck, the guy who does yard work in my neighborhood spends more than that a month on his tools.  🙂

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Engaged ,
May 07, 2013

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Was the idea of CC yours?? Seams your totaly infected of the adobe marketing gurus.

Where are the "cool" updates your talking about?
I don´t find it very cool to find x-thousand updates in my smart-phone, everytime i go online.

waiting and installing and getting familar with new functions.

The changes of most software within a year are regularily not significant (espec. at adobe)

And bugfixes can be given over the update-tool. Theres no need for a cloud.

And there is the risk of too fast update cycles also. The big upgrades are mostly tested versions.

Maybe that will change in future (some other companies, sometimes add functions, that are ver buggy).

And by the way: For faster Upgrade-cycles a cloud-jail isn´t necessary. Can be done by an update-tool also.

OK. 99% of users will be online once in 180 days.

But if you are an journalist and travelling threw last corners of earth - maybe you´ll have hassles an have to pay telephone-charges.

And after all: I´m owning the master collection and updated all the years.

I want to own my software and wan´t to be shure, that I can open my files when I decide to chance my software-subscription.

Doesn´t matter if it´s more expensive.

And who will stop Adobe to make their subscriptions more expensive in the next years, when nobody can quit (without loosing the access to his files)?

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Enthusiast ,
May 07, 2013

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Quote:

"and Adobe can just concentrate on making great products and improving them regularly rather than making some big splashy marketing push every two years just to make it seem worth upgrading...."

During the last 10 years Adobe software has improved very little. I can get most of my work done with CS3 without any problems. Most of the user requests fall on def ears. The most ridiculous thing is that AE still didn't get timeline folders. I don't know wheter to laugh or cry. Or maybe do neither and simply use Blender to replace AE. Adobe is switching to the forced money extraction strategy for one reason only: it hasn't been able to provide wanted enough features in it's software to make people actually WANT the upgrade. So now they are removing that problem by removing the need for people to want to upgrade. Sorry to say it wont work.

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Engaged ,
May 07, 2013

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Completely agree.

Maybe the changed distribution model, because have to few "real" updates.

(And yes: Me to. Most of my work (98%) can also be done with CS3)

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Community Beginner ,
May 07, 2013

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@ Daryl Barnes:
Ok, I get it. You are an Adobe Team member. So please stop writing this cr** and listen to us, the people.

We don't accept this. There is no advantage for the customer. Only for Adobe who will generate a lot more money.

I don't always want the latest version of my apps. I want to decide when to update. Sometimes I do it some years later. Because I am used to my version, because I feel comfortable in it and am used to every button.

I and most other people in all agencies I've worked in so far experience new Adobe software as stress. They like "their" versions and clearly don't want to be forced into a new workspace only because Adobe decides it's time for a new Photoshop.

So, dude, go back to your Adobe bosses and tell them the crowd is not amused and Adobe will go down it it skrews the whole industry.

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Engaged ,
May 07, 2013

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I agree.

And: I often keep older versions of Applications (So at the moment I use photoshop V3, V4, V5, V6 all on the same mashine) because they are kompatibel to older scanners, older plugins, and, and, and...

With this ridiculous CC - I can´t. Surely causes incompatibilities.

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Participant ,
May 07, 2013

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I have no problem with the concept but the assumption that everyone using

any CS product line:

a) has or needs all of them is false. I only use PS and LR and have no need

or desire to use any of the others.

b) that everyone needs all the latest improvements instantly. I get every

release of LR but only every 2nd or 3rd release of PS.

For me, I pay around $79 every 18 months or so for a LR upgrades, and a

couple hundred every 4 years or so for PS. So, over a 5 year period I spend

around $500. In this new scheme I'd be paying $2,760 (1 year @ $30/mo, 4

years @ $50/mo). $500 vs. $2,760 - not a very attractive proposal and not

one I'm going to buy into.

Dan

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Participant ,
May 07, 2013

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I can still do most of my work on CS3 or CS4 - but I have to admit that

"Content Aware" was a good add and is what prompted me to get CS5.

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Participant ,
May 07, 2013

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There is a simple solution. Allow subscribers to keep using whatever state the software was in upon end of subscription. Require a certian subscription length until this option will be available. You will not receive any software updates after the subscription ends.

Nobody takes your magazines away from you when your subscription ends why should this be any different?

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Explorer ,
May 07, 2013

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I would even be ammenable to paying a fee to get my "perpetual license".   Maybe lower the the fee the longer you've been subscribed?

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Explorer ,
May 07, 2013

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We've been very happy so far with Creative Cloud because with CC we've seen much faster release updates with new and better features and bug fixes than in the past and this has allowed us to create better results for our clients faster.

There was nothing keeping them from updating perpetual license customers in a more timely manner.  Software companies do it all the time.  The whole "more frequent updates" was just incentive to push people to their cloud service, while the rest of their customers, who paid cash up front were left to wait for the updates on the next whole version release, and pay again to get them.

For new customers,  CC might seem enticing,  we just upgraded to Design and Web Premium CS6 about 6 months ago at $375 per seat x 4 users.  $1500.     At $50/month, this will now cost us $2400 a year.  Yes, the buy in is cheaper,  but not if you already have the software.   How many people use just a few programs and don't need 80% of what's in the CC bundle? Lots. 

Adobe has been going on and on about how many happy CC users there are now,  well how many of them signed up because over the last year Adobe has made it increasingly more difficult to even get to a BUY button without going through 15 CC ads.  I think people just give up and sign up.

Used to be you could upgrade from a VERY old version to the newest,  then it became two versions back,  then/now it's one version back,  now it's CC...

Creative Cloud,  Creative Cloud,  Creative Cloud!!

http://youtu.be/bv6CUbFvC2Y

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Explorer ,
May 07, 2013

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I don't always want the latest version of my apps. I want to decide when to update.

The updates are not forced.   Yes, you still will have to pay monthly,  but you can refuse updates until you're ready for them.

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Adobe Employee ,
May 07, 2013

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SoilentGreen wrote:

There was nothing keeping them from updating perpetual license customers in a more timely manner.  Software companies do it all the time.  The whole "more frequent updates" was just incentive to push people to their cloud service, while the rest of their customers, who paid cash up front were left to wait for the updates on the next whole version release, and pay again to get them.

Actually, there are legal and accounting restrictions on adding new features to programs after they have been purchased. These restrictions do not apply when there is an ongoing payment.

For more information, look up revenue recognition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_recognition

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

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Participant ,
May 07, 2013

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I think this is a classic case of an over inflated ego at the product

management or VP level getting married to an idea and not being able to see

the forest through the trees. I've seen it many times before, including

when I worked for Adobe. Some VP or Director gets a hair brained idea, then

markets it up the ladder where they only look at the up-side potential and

any negatives get swept under the rug until it becomes policy. Then they

all sit around congratulating themselves on how brilliant they are (that's

where we are now in this cycle).

What comes next though is important. Either they take the backlash

seriously or they blow it off as just a handful of stick-in-the mud

fuddy-duddies who can't embrace the future. If they take it seriously in a

week or so they'll come out with some retraction or modification (it takes a

few weeks for all the meetings that must take place and for the all the

ass-covering that must go on). If they blow off the backlash then the stock

market will deal with it if earnings plummet. In this last case the VP or

Director who thought up the scheme will be looking for a new job.

What I'm talking about here is not the CC itself which is probably a good

marketing channel for those that are all-in, but the idea of abandoning the

traditional channel of selling perpetual licenses to use the products.

Dan

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Explorer ,
May 07, 2013

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legal and accounting restrictions on adding new features to programs after they have been purchased.

Maybe for Adobe, but features are added to other perpetual licenced software all the time. No ongoing payment required.

Read through the Wiki,  but being as I'm not an accountant,  it didn't help...  Does this have something to do with Adobe being a public company and having different rules?

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Explorer ,
May 07, 2013

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How does Apple get away with it for FCP-X?

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Participant ,
May 07, 2013

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@ Daryl Barnes

I think you haven't been keeping accurate track of the complaints.. The majority of users are complaining about the subscription model and lack of access to the software IF you have a reduced budget one year; not the incorrect idea of needing an always on internet. (although there does seem to be quite a few of those for some reason).

As far as I can tell the majority are complaining because they are afraid of the fact that budgets, especially personal, are unpredictable. You never know whether 4 years from now, if you'll have the $600 to spend on software. Those, mostly hobbiests and prosumers, don't want to loose the option of opening and editing their older work.

Other users are afraid that Adobe might jack up the price in a few years and they will have no exit strategy.  Keep paying the higher price or completely loose access to the software.

This move by Adobe is a little bit like music subscriptions where you can only listen to songs as long as you pay monthly. You get access to a huge library for a low monthly price, but none of what you are buying ever accrus in value. If you get layed off next year and have to cut unnecessary expenses, now you have no music at all to listen to.

Imagine if the tablet app stores were subscription only. $20 a month gets you any app you wanted, but if you stop paying monthly you loose access to all the apps. It increased the cost of having a usable tablet tremendously. For the most people they would only be justified as work devices, never just for play.

Adobe needs a buy-out plan where after 2-3 years on subscription you can exit to a standalone installable copy using whatever the current versions happens to be.

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LEGEND ,
May 07, 2013

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jbjones wrote:

Adobe needs a buy-out plan where after 2-3 years on subscription you can exit to a standalone installable copy using whatever the current versions happens to be.

This would be a VERY acceptable solution in my view. Combined with the revision today regarding "older builds will be made available to subscribers", it would alleviate many of the current concerns as I see them.

For me, it's not abotu pricign at all, it's about losing functionality or Adobe asking me to "trust us" when it comes to future usability.

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Engaged ,
May 07, 2013

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Me too.

Price is not the reason.

I want a guaranty, that I can use and change my files from the point I decide to quit my subscription.

May be this Adobe Company will think about the needs of its customers ...

By the way - my trust in Adobe is lower than ever.

A company, which makes that radical changes will also do other things!

I also don´t like the Style of the Marketing Blabla on the Website.

Anouncing everything - but now way to find what you want.

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Participant ,
May 07, 2013

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OK, so can someone give me the URL to download Photoshop CS6 Standalone,

perpetual, non Cloud version?

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Engaged ,
May 07, 2013

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Don´t know, if this works (what a pumped up website - full of CC anouncements):
https://www.adobe.com/de/products/catalog/cs6._sl_id-contentfilter_sl_catalog_sl_software_sl_creativ...

But here you can start buying process...

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Explorer ,
May 07, 2013

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Explorer ,
May 07, 2013

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One thing, this is already decided.

The big wigs sat down around a table and had the accountants run the numbers. They probably took the number of CC subs and how much money they got from that. Then looked at folks running cs3, 5 or 6, figured in which ones will be rendered obsolete by various operating system upgrades and would have to upgrade. Ran those numbers, projected out how many would subscribe to CC, what their montly fee would be and compared a projected millions per month to the projected random purchases of full versions - for pros, usually on the fiscal year and their eyes bulged out at all those zeros.

A 'guaranteed' monthly income vs what people may/may not buy? Of course they love it.

The ONLY way they'll change their minds will be in a year, 18 months or so, when reality sets in and if those projected numbers dont' deliver and the CEO has to sit down in front of the share holders and explain to them how come their dividends won't be what they were promised.


THen, and only then, will they consider that maybe their 'massive new and stable revenue stream' isn't all it was promised. And then they might revisit the issue and make changes.


If you, the random 'you' don't want CC to be the new future...don't buy into it.

This is similar to..I was around when local lawmakers were debating texting and driving and whether or not it should be illegal. Common sense says yes, that you cant' do both. Anecdotes say yes, you can't do both. But they refused to do anything until they had numbers and studies to prove to them that, yeah, you can't text and drive.

The bigwigs will be the same way. DOesn't matter how we complain, it'll be dismissed and ignored. Teh only thing that'll really resonate with them is numbers.

I can't sell this up the chain of command. I can't tell my boss that we need almost 10,000 dollars a year to keep access to our files. I say that and his immediate response will be 'so, what else is there?' Let's say we have a 50K budget for software and supplies...under this scheme we'd lose almost 20% of that just to access and work with files. We cant' use our cap expenditure budget on monthly subs, this would come out of our day to day expenses budget.

There is no way I can look at the numbers and advocate a scheme that only benefits the company selling it. We can't commit to a yearly expenditure that may grow by leaps and bounds (while our budget goes the other way) and put ourselves in the position to have past work held hostage to continuing to pay a sub.

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Participant ,
May 07, 2013

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I'm thinking someone at Adobe read "The Pumpkin Plan" and decided that they only wanted regular upgraders as customers. This is their way of cutting out the casual upgraders.

I'm not sure the plan really makes sense with the extreemely low cost of software duplication. Seems better to make an extra $50k (or whatever) every 5 years than to eliminate those customers altogether. Surely they don't think they'll convince low spenders (aka, version skippers) to suddenly increase their income and start spending more just for Adobe's latest and greatest.

Maybe on the customer support side they are getting lots of silly calls asking how to do a fix a photo or something.

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New Here ,
May 07, 2013

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MIke,

I am also a long time user of many Adobe products (but not all) and I have purchased (and kept current) the Production Premium Creative Suite. I am currently a CC subscriber and I plan to continue. Until I retire on July 31, 2014. And then I'll need to re-evaluate my membership. I am not a porfessional photographer and make no money from what I do. But I do enjoy all aspects of  my photography and use Lightroom and Photoshop extensively (and Premiere to a lessor extent). Once I am on a "fixed income" I'm not sure how realistic it may be to spend the monthly subscription dollars.

I would hope that Adobe takes these situations into account. Perhaps one solution would to allow a person such as myself a way to keep the software functional instead of shutting it off. After all,  when I receive a magizine for a given month, I can still read it after my subscription expires. No comes along and takes all my back copies!

Perhaps I can submit my IRS 1040 to show my income sources.

For consideration:

  1. A Creative Cloud "Production Premium" option at a reduced price from the full suite.
  2. A "buy-out" where my current software would stay alive (and I would not recieve updates).
  3. Include retirees in the Student/teacher bucket.
  4. Create another "Senior / Retiree" catagory (subject to some type of proof documentation)

LpGrumpy

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Engaged ,
May 07, 2013

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That buy-out is a top idea.

If this would become true, the CC solution might be aceptable.

I hope these marketing fuz..s from Adobe are sometimes have a look at this forum.

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Participant ,
May 11, 2013

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Mike the confusion is that on Adobe part thinking we will all get on your stupid cloud.

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Explorer ,
May 11, 2013

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I'm embarassed for you Adobe. This is apalling. I have spent close to 20k in Adobe software over the past 20 years...and have owned nearly every app you've ever made. I was even an authorized Adobe trainer.

But this? It's just complete sleaziness. And if you cross this rubicon it will be the beginning of the end for Adobe. The utter contempt that you are showing towards your customer base will create a psunami of bad will which will ultimately sink the company.

Imagine a scenario where you built yourself a house…but where when you stopped renting your carpentry tools…then you weren’t permitted to inhabit your own house anymore. Imagine! Locked out of your own house by the vendor who rented you the tools. That’s beyond absurd isn’t it? Isn’t it!?

But that’s the exact same scenario here. My files are my work. It’s my effort. My perspiration. My ideas…But because I used Adobe’s tools…I’m forever at the mercy of their gatekeping to be able to access my stuff. And sorry, but accessing them in some read-only state is nothing but an insult.

I will never agree to this and will become an anti-Adobe evangelist if this policy persists.

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Participant ,
May 12, 2013

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As Mick Jagger sang... Hey, you get off of my cloud!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3F4GmbHl5g

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Participant ,
May 12, 2013

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you will be all by yourself on that cloud. Adobe is desperate for this to work and needs volume or wall street will burry them.

PS i am not and never will be on your goofball cloud

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Enthusiast ,
May 12, 2013

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"Being in the cloud" is actually quite descriptive for the system Adobe wants you to join.

There are other dealers who sell you a similar promise. Start using with little or no money and after you hooked the price goes up and there is no escape.

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Mentor ,
May 12, 2013

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Another petition to join for those interested (saw it in another recent post on the forum):

Ask Department Of Justice to investigate Adobe Systems, Inc. recent announcement to change its software license to subscription-only.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/ask-doj-investigate-adobe-systems-inc-recent-announcement-...

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 12, 2013

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oldschoolmx says he has spent $20k with Adobe in the last 20 years, but is unhappy about the Cloud.  That works out at $1000/year.  Why isn't he overjoyed to have the entire Creative Cloud suite for just $600/ year from now on out?

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Explorer ,
May 12, 2013

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Trevor I owned a lot more than just master suite. I paid $4k for Authorware a decade ago. I've owned every version of Adobe Director. And I've owned multiple copies of apps for my employees. Until now I've given Adobe a lot of my money. The spigot is going to be shut down.

I will absolutely not be renting moving forward. I will not allow Adobe to be a gatekeeper who can lock me out of my work.

This is not a short term monetary decision for me. This is about coercion. Extortion, really. This weekend I've already begun buying my Adobe alternatives: Pixelmator, Tumult Hype and Final Cut Pro.

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