Bootstrap 4 Alpha 6

[BenPleysier]

See http://blog.getbootstrap.com/2017/01/06/bootstrap-4-alpha-6/

[osgood_]

Way behind the curve. By the time that reaches full release those ahead of the curve will have been using more advanced techniques to layout a responsive site for a couple of years and those behind the curve are still using float............phewwww.

[Nancy OShea]

I foresee my Snippets folder getting a good workout soon. 

[pziecina]

Hope this post does not cause problems for Madison, but could not resist this, (sorry Ben )

Quote from the above link -

"Bootstrap 4 is now flexbox by default! Flexbox is an immensely powerful layout tool, providing unparalleled flexibility (hah) and control to our grid system and core components."

Flexbox rules, and about time

[osgood_]

pziecina wrote:

Hope this post does not cause problems for Madison, but could not resist this, (sorry Ben )

Quote from the above link -

"Bootstrap 4 is now flexbox by default! Flexbox is an immensely powerful layout tool, providing unparalleled flexibility (hah) and control to our grid system and core components."

Flexbox rules, and about time

I havent been using a float in my main constructions for the past 3/4 months and I'm a late comer to the Flexbox party - Bootstrap is entering when the party is over. Bootstrap the worlds most popular responsive framework and the worlds slowest uptake for advanced techniques framework.............

[pziecina]

The truth is Os, those who use frameworks will never really learn flexbox, (or css grids when that is fully usable).

I'm just glad that Dw when it finally updates to Bootstrap 4, it will finally have something that uses flexbox, (for those designers that have not installed the PVII extension), and hopefully Dw will then have to offer better general support for flexbox than it currently does.

Also I can then show bootstrap users how to do the same layout with less than 10% of the code.

[osgood_]

pziecina wrote:

The truth is Os, those who use frameworks will never really learn flexbox, (or css grids when that is fully usable).

I'm just glad that Dw when it finally updates to Bootstrap 4, it will finally have something that uses flexbox, (for those designers that have not installed the PVII extension), and hopefully Dw will then have to offer better general support for flexbox than it currently does.

Also I can then show bootstrap users how to do the same layout with less than 10% of the code.

It had to happen, anyone who has been using Flexbox for a few months or in a lot of cases many many many months like yourself has been enjoying the freedom of cleaner, faster and more flexible layouts which was not possible when using floats, display: table; - Its a much needed breathe of freash air, roll on grid, can't wait for that to become main stream.

Flexbox is here and its now, even Bootstrap caved in and knew they had to make it default rather than optional other wise Bootstrap would have died fast, now it lingers on for a few more years, playing catch up all the time.

[Nancy OShea]

even Bootstrap caved in and knew they had to make it default rather than optional other wise Bootstrap would have died fast...

Sometimes you make some really wild assumptions.

Bootstrap always intended to embrace Flexbox but not until it was ready for prime time.   The big bugaboo was & still is IE9.  So Bootstrap 4 Alpha 6  has embraced Flexbox and dropped support for IE9.   Anyone who needs to support IE9 can keep using Bootstrap 3x.

Nancy

[pziecina]

Nancy OShea wrote:

Bootstrap always intended to embrace Flexbox but not until it was ready for prime time. The big bugaboo was & still is IE9. So Bootstrap 4 Alpha 6 has embraced Flexbox and dropped support for IE9. Anyone who needs to support IE9 can keep using Bootstrap 3x.

Nancy

I know the post with the link is now gone, but I did post a link to a flexbox polyfill for IE9 and below, (that I partially wrote) 3 years ago, (complete with the 'golden layout' example page. It had problems with IE6, (due to its box model).

[osgood_]

Nancy OShea wrote:

even Bootstrap caved in and knew they had to make it default rather than optional other wise Bootstrap would have died fast...

Sometimes you make some really wild assumptions.

Bootstrap always intended to embrace Flexbox but not until it was ready for prime time. The big bugaboo was & still is IE9. So Bootstrap 4 Alpha 6 has embraced Flexbox and dropped support for IE9. Anyone who needs to support IE9 can keep using Bootstrap 3x.

Originally in v4 is was going to be as an option, not by default, no wild assumptions here.

It was all over the web at the time in case you have short memory, as it seems you do:

Getting started with Bootstrap 4 Flexbox | BootBites.com

No wonder its taken eons to come to full release as its been re-written and re-written and still nowhere near stable.

[BenPleysier]

pziecina wrote:

Hope this post does not cause problems for Madison, but could not resist this, (sorry Ben )

Quote from the above link -

"Bootstrap 4 is now flexbox by default! Flexbox is an immensely powerful layout tool, providing unparalleled flexibility (hah) and control to our grid system and core components."

Flexbox rules, and about time

As long as posters remain civil, there will be no need for intervention. I'l ignore the fact that I am being singled out.

I have been using Flex for for longer than some, just not in the manner that is being proposed by Bootstrap version 4.

Back in the days of the Dreamweaver Cookbook, I wrote an article on using Table as a layout tool. This made same length columns and vertical positioning of text as easy as and no floats required. Flex is a mere refinement of the Cell devoid of the Table. Why did not more developers use Table? Why do we not hear more on Inline-blocks with similar outcomes to Flex?

I use all sorts of tools and methods that allow me to create a quality website in the shortest amount of time. I work within the parameters of frameworks and Dreamweaver extensions. In future, one of those parameters will dictate that I use Flex for my layouts. Woopee dooo! Will this change my workflow? Will this make my customers even happier? Will this change the performance of my websites?

Of course I keep an eye on the future and I look forward to the time that we can start using Flex within the constraints of a Table replacement called Grid, just biding time. One comforting factor, when I start using Flex as a layout method, it will be tried and tested by others, saving my time for what I need to do.

[pziecina]

Hi Ben,

My reference to Madison was not intended to be aimed at yourself, but was in reference to the restoring of my missing posts, etc. after my account deactivation, as i do not wish to cause problems for her by posting new content such as my repies in this discussion, or make the recovery from back-ups more difficult, should it be possible to restore them.

I am looking at the bootstrap adoption of flexbox as default as a positive step, both for Dw and front end development, as this means that much more modern layouts, css and javascript can now be implemented. The dropping of support by bootstrap for IE9 and below means for myself, (and hopefully everyone else) that much more modern html, css and javascript usage will be possible.

Paula

[BenPleysier]

Hi Paula,

Sorry, I misunderstood. I have been following the 'missing posts' saga and do feel for you.

Just between you and me, I am looking forward to BSv4 (BS = Bootstrap) and using Flex.

[Nancy OShea]

Agreed.

I'm looking forward to kicking around BS4, Alpha 6 when I get some free time.

When Bootstrap originally offered Flexbox as an "option" rather than all or nothing solution it was mainly to appease the older IE users.  Phasing into it gradually seemed the only sensible thing to do at that time.  Quite honestly, I wasn't wild about the half-baked approach so I didn't jump on it.    

Now that IE9 numbers are significantly lower, it makes sense to move towards a fully-baked Flexbox.  We'll see how it goes.

Nancy  

[pziecina]

Just a thought here, and i do realise that the actual stable BS4, (I rememberd the abreviation Ben ) is unlikely to be released before the end of this year or early 2018, but it may be a good time for us to discuss what will then be possible, and would require support in Dw.

(not in this discussion though, unless it directly relates to BS4).

I am thinking of css such as animations, shapes (pollyfill will then work in all BS4 supported browsers), level 4 selectors, html 5.1 srcset/picture, base64, javascript api's, (eg animations api) etc. As there is no support for these as yet in Dw, and no Adobe program supports the usable creation of css animations or webGL, (to name just a few items).

This would also give those complaining, (rightly or wrongly, depending on who one asks) about what is missing in Dw, a place to have a say.

Preran​

I am not saying CC Animate does not support animations or webGL, just that it does so badly in my opinion, (if you would like coders opinions on why we think so, a discussion is a possibility).

Just one note though, if such discussions do happen, please everyone keep it civil, and remember the Dw dev team are not to blame if any suggestions are not incorporated into Dw, (they have their bosses also).

[osgood_]

pziecina wrote:

Just a thought here, and i do realise that the actual stable BS4, (I rememberd the abreviation Ben ) is unlikely to be released before the end of this year or early 2018, but it may be a good time for us to discuss what will then be possible, and would require support in Dw.

css grid will probably be almost ready to deploy when BS4 is finally released as a production version, certainly before BS5 is.

I get bored easily with current workflows, what should I be learning - Muse, Webflow or Wix?

[pziecina]

I could write you a list Os, but until the 'back room' removes my name as a spammer i don't want to post any links to articles or recommendations.

I hope yourself and everyone else understands why.

[Preran]

Hi Paula,

I know that Madison is on your case, but I wasn't aware of your spammer status still being active. From what I know, we are still working with Jive to restore all the lost data that got deleted in this confusion. I don't remember something similar happening previously on this forum, and I am hoping that the mess is sorted out soon.

About the Animate CC observation, I will share it with the team. They may get in touch with you for further clarification.

Thanks,

Preran

[pziecina]

Thank you Preran.

I have talked to an ex-jive database engineer, (now works on my projects), and he has explained how it was possible.

Regarding CC Animate, I can safely say that my opinion is shared across the majority of coders, and a discussion with the Animate team would be welcomed.

[pziecina]

Hi Os, and anyone else reading this,

The question of what will be possible once one drops support for IE9 and below, and what to learn is simple -

read the book, "The book of css3" second edition by Peter Gaston, (i think i got the name correct) as with the exeption of css exclusions, (currently only in IE10+, but in dev in Chrome and Safari) everything in that book, including the end chapter, "future of css", can be used with a little thought.

That includes css grid layouts, as what we all forgot, (i.e. Me) when we where discussing that feature, is that Edge plans to update its support to the new syntax, and IE11 and below is only used on desktops now, so with the use of @support Edge and all other modern browsers can be targeted. Making grids a possibility for use by mid 2017.

Finally, css variables will also become usable, (who needs sass ).

[osgood_]

pziecina wrote:

Finally, css variables will also become usable, (who needs sass ).

That would be a 'not before time' welcome step forward for me personally as I can see the advantage of using variables where they are processed within the same file, rather than having to mess around with sass or less files, which I've never found useful myself, I know others have.

I'm not keen on the 'ugly' syntax.........phewww!

[pziecina]

Hi Os,

css variables is not supported by IE10/11, but will be in Edge by the middle of this year. I don't think providing a fallback for IE will be a problem though as it should be common practice to provide a basic styling for older browsers anyway, I have to agree with you about the syntax though, but there are a number of pre/post-processor features in development for inclusion in the css specs, (as 'straight forward' css) and the syntax was also chosen to fit in with those.

Now I can post links -

http://caniuse.com/#search=css%20var

Also I can now start a full discussion on what one can do when IE9, (and I would argue IE10) is dropped. With a few examples.

[osgood_]

pziecina wrote:

Hi Os,

css variables is not supported by IE10/11, but will be in Edge by the middle of this year. I don't think providing a fallback for IE will be a problem though as it should be common practice to provide a basic styling for older browsers anyway, I have to agree with you about the syntax though, but there are a number of pre/post-processor features in development for inclusion in the css specs, (as 'straight forward' css) and the syntax was also chosen to fit in with those.

Now I can post links -

http://caniuse.com/#search=css%20var

Also I can now start a full discussion on what one can do when IE9, (and I would argue IE10) is dropped. With a few examples.

Well I can only hope that I get to use all of these interesting advancements in a production capacity. I'm approaching the end cycle of my working days. Time is running out for me!!

I'd hate to invest time in keep learning all of this and have nowhere much to use it, well see if it gives me up before I give it up.

[pziecina]

osgood_ wrote:

pziecina wrote:

Finally, css variables will also become usable, (who needs sass ).

That would be a 'not before time' welcome step forward for me personally as I can see the advantage of using variables where they are processed within the same file, rather than having to mess around with sass or less files, which I've never found useful myself, I know others have.

I'm not keen on the 'ugly' syntax.........phewww!

I do promise Ben to start a new discussion

Update to css variables -

Just received my Edge dev preview update - css variables now included, and css grids to be updated to new syntax, (for this one everyone please add your vote, (more votes raises the priority) -

https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/257854-microsoft-edge-developer/suggestions/6514853-update-css-gr...

[BenPleysier]

Great to see Eric Meyer throwing his weight behind the update to Edge. Hopefully he does the same for all browsers. The Dreamweaver Development Team (read Preran) should take note