I need a pep talk!

[KevinB9]

I am a photographer and I last used Dreamweaver in 2014 to showcase my work using basic HTML and CSS. A little bit of off the shelf JavaScript. Nothing too fancy. I found Dreamweaver frustrating to work with -  especially the CSS interface - even though all the manuals and tutorials were  bragging about how easy it is to use.

I just went back to Dreamweaver after a long absence and downloaded the 20`17 version. I was taken aback to see how different it is. What does that tell you about a program that changes so much from version to version? What does that say about the older versions? I don't see those changes in other Adobe programs like Premier and Photoshop. One thing has not changed - Dreamweaver still calls itself the "industry leader."

I would like to give Dreamweaver 2017 a try since I have the CC subscription. Also, I hate to give up on something. My websites are simple - a page layout with a few videos and slide shows thrown in.

What do you think is the best way to learn Dreamweaver 2017?  Should I forget the book and just look for tutorials? Thanks.

Kevin from Cambridge

[pziecina]

Dreamweaver is not for anyone who does not have a working knowledge of html and css, (with an understanding of javascript thrown in).

Trying to use Dw without that knowledge is like me complaining that i cannot get professional quality photos on my camera, because i do not know what the settings do or how to use them.

You are right about the interface in Dw, and i have complained about the frequency of the changes, (mostly unnecessary).

[ALsp]

The power of Dreamweaver has always been its extensibility. That has not changed. Unfortunately, Adobe's incompetence and the obstinacy of the people on this forum has perpetuated the falsehood that Dreamweaver REQUIRES advanced coding skills. That is disinformation. At best.

There have always been extensions to cover any client-side need with automated tools. Galleries, menus, page-building, etc. These are all things that Adobe cannot provide. So those on this forum who preach against extensions, have no alternative but to berate people who do not possess the coding skills to do it yourself.

Dreamweaver CC 2017 is utterly worthless to the typical Dreamweaver: the non-coding designer. So the obvious answer is simply to install a pre-creative cloud version, whichever one is most comfortable for you, and use extensions as needed. If you choose the right extension developer, you will also benefit from a level of support Adobe cannot provide.

Yes, extensions cost money. But so do the tools a carpenter or a mechanic choose to use in order to make their jobs more efficient. The bottom line is that you do have choices. You always have choices.

Don't let the noise on this forum sway you from the truth 🙂

[osgood_]

ALsp  wrote

So those on this forum who preach against extensions, have no alternative but to berate people who do not possess the coding skills to do it yourself.

I preach against extensions because they are limted in what they can do. If you can think of it and can code you can do it, if you can think of it and can't code you have to settle for what an extension provides. For some that may be sufficient, for others it may fall short of their expecations/requirements. If you're a Sunday driver then the extensions you and others provide may be exactly what is required.

Maybe we should have a forum button which says which category the OPs falls into. I'm quite happy to ignore threads which bring the profession into disrepute.

[pziecina]

The problem with extensions and recommending them, is that first i would have to know exactly what the person i am recommending them expects to do. Without this information the user may end up having to purchase extensions worth hundreds of £/$,

Advising someone to learn how to code, not only enables them to do it without extensions, but also opens up the full range of possibilities now available to a coder, who is willing to learn.

The above sentence is also why i do not advise users to use Bootstrap, which is 'free' in Dw.

[osgood_ · Accepted solution]

pziecina  wrote

The problem with extensions and recommending them, is that first i would have to know exactly what the person i am recommending them expects to do. Without this information the user may end up having to purchase extensions worth hundreds of £/$,

Advising someone to learn how to code, not only enables them to do it without extensions, but also opens up the full range of possibilities now available to a coder, who is willing to learn.

The above sentence is also why i do not advise users to use Bootstrap, which is 'free' in Dw.

I agree. If an OP comes on here an their opening line is 'I hate coding, don't want to code' then I'm more that happy to ignore the post or at worst send them in the direction of an extension developer and let them see if they can provide what is required. I really have no time for those that are not remotely interested in web-devlopment but just want to point, drag and drop, sorry they are a waste of space in my world.

[ALsp]

pziecina  wrote

The problem with extensions and recommending them, is that first i would have to know exactly what the person i am recommending them expects to do. Without this information the user may end up having to purchase extensions worth hundreds of £/$,

Advising someone to learn how to code, not only enables them to do it without extensions, but also opens up the full range of possibilities now available to a coder, who is willing to learn.

The above sentence is also why i do not advise users to use Bootstrap, which is 'free' in Dw.

Reading comprehension 🙂

I don't expect people to recommend specific extensions. What irks me is when people berate or belittle a poster because it is obvious the poster is not a coder. This is one of the reasons Macromedia made Dreamweaver extensible.

There are only a handful of regular posters in this forum that regularly answer questions. Most of you rarely, if ever, present extensions as potential solutions to a poster's problems.

As for Osgood saying "I preach against extensions because they are limited in what they can do. If you can think of it and can code you can do it, if you can think of it and can't code you have to settle for what an extension provides," my response would be that I might have a similar opinion, but only if I'd never used one of our extensions. Harmony is addictive in the simple way in which one can create virtually any type of page they can imagine. I think the shift in the treatment of extension developers since Adobe bought Macromedia is pretty mean-spirited sometimes

[osgood_]

ALsp  wrote

There are only a handful of regular posters in this forum that regularly answer questions. Most of you rarely, if ever, present extensions as potential solutions to a poster's problems.

Its not always possible, actually rare to say an extension would be the best way for a poster to proceed because a lot of the time I can't even understand what the poster, due to their lack of knowledge and descriptive powers really wants, mostly though something for nothing, so I don't really feel comfortable pointing then to something which is going to cost them extra money, unless as I said in a previous post, they provide more details on their skill levels and if they are happy to pay extra for a paid-for solution which of course could be an answer to their issues.

I used to regularly point posters to your websites all the time but have since stopped because i felt like I was trying to sell solutions, so first point of call is to try and help them out, without it costing them money, or point them to the many other solutions which may also solve their issues. It doesnt help you out of course but hey it doesnt help me as a developer that an unskilled developer might potentailly be taking some of the work I used to do.

Hummmm....I don't really know in those circumstances what to do. I like to try and mentor and encourage those that have some kind of understanding of what the job entails and am quite happy for those that wish no involvement to seek alternatives, like extensions.

To give PVII credit though, which you obviously feel I don't do  I am aware you provide some of the best and innovative solutuions available, which will suit those with particular needs.

[Nancy OShea]

The UI in DW CC is radically different from the old Creative Suite products, true.  However, different is not necessarily bad.  It just takes getting used to.

85% of my work is performed in Code View.   I can't be bothered with CSS Designer panels.  For me, the code hinting & auto-completion features in Code View are superior to clumsy panels because you can see exactly what you're editing and do it faster.

Nancy