Is it really so complicated?

[pziecina]

Some of us have taken part in the following discussion -

https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2279932

Which has caused me to re-look at web development, this forum, and Dw in particular.

Dw has I think lost touch, and any solutions we offer users would I think be better if they were not Dw related, but composed of components, and snippets of code, that the user could use in any program. Why?

The only 'complete' solution that Dw offers is bootstrap, and this will cause problems for users if Dw ever updates to bootstrap v4. as it is not really backwards compatible is it. This leaves users such as the OP of the above discussion in limbo to some extent, as any site they create now will in 1 or 2 years time not be editable in Dw, (if Dw does update to v4, but if it does not, what then?).

I also looked at the swap-image behaviour, and the image size problem mentioned in the last few posts of the discussion, (don't scream, I will be mentioning srcset  ). It was then I realized that anyone now using just what Dw has to offer is -

• Using completely outdated javascript solutions
• Has no way to use modern css to solve a problem
• Cannot use srcset, (with the sizes attribute) to solve the problem of using different images for various viewport sizes)

If this forum is to continue, it must once again move its focus back to code, and away from mainly Dw solutions to web design and development. This would be in order to offer a more widely based offering to modern web development problems. I don't think we can simply say Dw offers x, y, z, and that is what we should offer users, it is simply not working for many who post questions here anymore.

Also one never knows, maybe DW will move to being a post IE8 web tool, if more users learn what is possible without using 'click to insert' solutions.

Finally -

Though I see no reason not to have a visual side to Dw, it must not become a bad solution as its current reputation, (deserved or otherwise) suggests.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

Some of us have taken part in the following discussion -

How do I add media queries to an existing css stylesheet?

Which has caused me to re-look at web development, this forum, and Dw in particular.

I would say 95% of the posters in this forum should be using Muse. They know very litte code and don't seem interested or have the desire to learn any. DW is not the product they should be using.

I don't know where that leaves DW because they seem to form the nucleus of its users.

I just help out people with coding issues which DW cannot address through a UI interface, don't much care about DW itself or what happens to it. I think I have found a product which is more suited to my workflow which DW could never match in quality, innovation or price. That's sad as I would have liked to have seen it progress but progression would most likely have meant abandoning its core users to appease others, probably in the minority. I dont think a product can address everyone. DW I think has found its level and is happy to stay there.

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

I dont think a product can address everyone. DW I think has found its level and is happy to stay there.

That's why I say, concentrate on code components and snippets.

The more I look at Dw, it is going nowhere fast and failing everyone with its insistence on a, 'let's try this, and that, 3rd party solutions'. It may have bootstrap, but it cannot update bootstrap. It may have sass/less, but most of its core users don't use it, if they don't want to learn code they certainly will not want to learn a pre/post-processor.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

osgood_   wrote

I dont think a product can address everyone. DW I think has found its level and is happy to stay there.

That's why I say, concentrate on code components and snippets.

The more I look at Dw, it is going nowhere fast and failing everyone with its insistence on a, 'let's try this, and that, 3rd party solutions'. It may have bootstrap, but it cannot update bootstrap. It may have sass/less, but most of its core users don't use it, if they don't want to learn code they certainly will not want to learn a pre/post-processor.

Well of course I agree with you. You and I can shout all we want but in reality we don't belong here. Its only us having a discusion about DW and I don't even use it lol.

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

Its only us having a discusion about DW and I don't even use it lol.

I started a discussion in the Dw 2017 pre-release forum, asking if it should be closed last week, (101 posts in 2 days).

What I did discover was that even users of other Adobe products don't use Dw, 90% of people supported a flexbox implementation in css designer, and all of them said they would consider using Dw again if it did so.

I don't think it is just us, old Dw users, many who used to be members of the pre-release prior to CC 2014, do not like the direction Dw has taken, and now use another program.

[pziecina]

Did not wish to start another discussion, so posting here.

I know I complain about Dw, but Ps appears to be having similar problems -

https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2283945

[Nancy OShea]

I think you'll find similar sentiments expressed by various product users -- Premier Pro, InDesign, Illustrator, Acrobat, etc... 

[pziecina]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

I think you'll find similar sentiments expressed by various product users -- Premier Pro, InDesign, Illustrator, Acrobat, etc... 

I don't feel like I am just 'shouting into the wind' anymore.

Thank you