Upwards from Access

Report · Jul 08, 2008

I have a small site that runs using an access database- Click here - and is written in Asp JavaScript (never got around to using MS Basic)

Unfortunately it runs slowly when it gets more than about 20 users on it, and apart from some sloppy coding on the pages, this is mainly down to Access.

I think that I need to use a different type of database. I have looked at SQL Server 2005, and PHP with MySQL, but they both seem so crude to use. Both remind me of Edlin, the Dos "wordprocessor" I used in the early 1980s.

Question.
What database system should I use so that my surfers don't have to wait , and does one exist that has a proper front end. (or must I get used to the dos command prompt after 25 years)

I need to be able to easily convert the access query and 8 files that run my system at the moment to work on the new system, as my client does not wish to type in the 2400 or so sets of info using my built in contact management system. It also needs to integrate well with Dreamweaver CS3 and preferably cost nothing other than a donation.

Any suggestions (please be kind!)

Howard Walker

Report · Jul 09, 2008

whatalotofrubbish wrote:
> I have a small site that runs using an access database-
> http://www.tyneships.co.uk - and is written in Asp JavaScript (never got
> around to using MS Basic)
>
> Unfortunately it runs slowly when it gets more than about 20 users on it, and
> apart from some slopy codin on the pages, this is mainly down to Access.
>
> I think that I need to use a different type of database. I have looked at SQL
> Server 2005, and PHP with MySQL, but they both seem so crude to use. Both
> remind me of Edlin, the Dos "wordprocessor" I used in the early 1980s.
>
> Question.
> What database system should I use so that my surfers don't have to wait , and
> does one exist that has a proper front end. (or must I get used to the dos
> command prompt after 25 years)
>
> I need to be able to easily convert the access query and 8 files that run my
> system at the moment to work on the new system, as my client does not wish to
> type in the 2400 or so sets of info using my built in contact management
> system. It also needs to integrate well with Dreamweaver CS3 and preferably
> cost nothing other than a donation.
>
> Any suggestions (please be kind!)

If you used to Access then SQL 2005 is the way forward. You can even use
Access to "upsize" your database, and then setup an Access Project to
connect to your new database and control it. It will look just like Access.

With SQL 2005 you have a remarkably good tool called SQL Server
Management Studio, this is a really good GUI that does all the commands
for you, but still lets you enter SQL to do what you want.

I would however recommend that you learn the basics of Transactional SQL
first, it will make your life easier.

Steve

Report · Jul 09, 2008

whatalotofrubbish wrote:
I think that I need to use a different type of database. I have looked at
SQL
Server 2005, and PHP with MySQL, but they both seem so crude to use. Both
remind me of Edlin, the Dos "wordprocessor" I used in the early 1980s.

Crude???? I cannot speak for MySQL as I have never really had much to do
with it but I know SQL Server very well as it is my job and Crude is
probably the worst description I could think of attributing to it.

I can only presume that you have either evaluated the wrong product or you
have very little idea as to what you are talking about. I strongly suspect
that the latter is correct.

Before dabbling with enterprise standard database servers, I would suggest
you get a couple of good books and learn a little about them and how they
function as you clearly currently have no idea.

Good luck.

Pat.

"whatalotofrubbish" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:g50svh$ctt$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>I have a small site that runs using an access database-
> http://www.tyneships.co.uk - and is written in Asp JavaScript (never got
> around to using MS Basic)
>
> Unfortunately it runs slowly when it gets more than about 20 users on it,
> and
> apart from some slopy codin on the pages, this is mainly down to Access.
>
> I think that I need to use a different type of database. I have looked at
> SQL
> Server 2005, and PHP with MySQL, but they both seem so crude to use. Both
> remind me of Edlin, the Dos "wordprocessor" I used in the early 1980s.
>
> Question.
> What database system should I use so that my surfers don't have to wait ,
> and
> does one exist that has a proper front end. (or must I get used to the dos
> command prompt after 25 years)
>
> I need to be able to easily convert the access query and 8 files that run
> my
> system at the moment to work on the new system, as my client does not wish
> to
> type in the 2400 or so sets of info using my built in contact management
> system. It also needs to integrate well with Dreamweaver CS3 and
> preferably
> cost nothing other than a donation.
>
> Any suggestions (please be kind!)
>

Report · Jul 09, 2008

> I think that I need to use a different type of database. I have looked at
> SQL
> Server 2005, and PHP with MySQL, but they both seem so crude to use.

Access is the 'crude' one of the bunch. MySQL and SQL Server are powerhouse
DB systems.

> does one exist that has a proper front end. (or must I get used to the dos
> command prompt after 25 years)

No DOS involved. MySQL has a native command line interface (as to most
server technologies on Linux) but there are also plenty of GUIs you can add.

SQL Server has SQL Server Manager that gives you a front end GUI.

> I need to be able to easily convert the access query and 8 files that run
> my
> system at the moment to work on the new system, as my client does not wish
> to
> type in the 2400 or so sets of info using my built in contact management
> system. It also needs to integrate well with Dreamweaver CS3 and
> preferably
> cost nothing other than a donation.

The cost factor would lead me to suggest you dump MS products and consider a
PHP + MySQL rewrite.

-Darrel

Report · Jul 10, 2008

Thanks for all the info.
I have been writing database solutions, mainly using Omnis or Access since 1978, when I started on an Apple 2. Unfortunately my only experience of web databases is with Access, which I have been using for the last 15 years. Access is basically free and since I retired, I now write mainly for charity or non profit making organisations..

I have looked at MS Server 2500, and even got to download a host of MS videos on the subject, together with Microsoft SQL Server Management Express. As far as I can see it is still crude compared with a product like Dreamweaver, but perhaps I have not studied it enough. I will look at it again Pat.

I have also downloaded a product called WAMP server, which seems to combine lots of necessary things to run MySQLlite, PHP, and Apache. This again does not seem to have a front end other than a command line editor, and I have been unable to find much in the way of documentation for it.

I do have a lack of knowledge on the subject which is why I posted my request in the first place.

Thanks to you all for your advice, which is most welcome.

Howard Walker

Report · Jul 11, 2008

I believe why you say MSSQL is crude is because it is not an end user's
database to play with. MSSQL and MYSQL are industrial strength
databases that are designed for developers not casual users and
non-programmers. The programming tools, power, security, and stability
of MSSQL and MYSQL make them ideal for web work. Access is really not
ready nor was it meant to be ready for the main line.

Since money is an issue MYSQL is the way to go. I recommend purchaing
a book like David Powers' that couples PHP and MYSQL. The way you
connect to the database is similiar to Acess but is a superior platform.

Report · Jul 11, 2008

> As far
> as I can see it is still crude compared with a product like Dreamweaver,
> but
> perhaps I have not studied it enough. I will look at it again Pat.

ALL MS products are crude to an extent. ;o)

> I have also downloaded a product called WAMP server, which seems to
> combine
> lots of necessary things to run MySQLlite, PHP, and Apache. This again
> does not
> seem to have a front end other than a command line editor, and I have been
> unable to find much in the way of documentation for it.

MySQL has various options for web front ends.
phpMyAdmin is a common one.

Most shared hosting firms will provide you with a GUI front end as part of
the hosting package.

If you want to stick in MS land, one option to consider is this product:

http://www.vistadb.net/

I haven't used it, but it seems to be what SQLExpress shoudl have been. It's
a SQL Db that acts as a standalone like Access would.

It's affordable, pluse there's now a free version:

http://www.vistadb.net/blog/vistadb-news/vistadb-express-release/

I know Grafitti CMS is using it as the default back-end DB:

http://graffiticms.com/

-Darrel

Report · Jul 13, 2008

Thanks to all for your assistance. Having installed and set up Server Express 2500, it now looks a little smarter than when I first installed it.

However, as it looks like I would have to pay to use it on line, I have decided to opt for MySQL and PHP running on IIS. I know it is usual to run these on Apache, but I also need IIS on the same machine for my other sites, and as it should run PHP, I will give it a try.

Report · Jul 13, 2008

You can have both IIS and Apache on the same box, you know? IIS would be on
port 80, and Apache on 8080, I believe.

--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
==================

"whatalotofrubbish" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:g5d5h5$ot$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Thanks to all for your assistance. Having installed and set up Server
> Express
> 2500, it now looks a little smarter than when I first installed it.
>
> However, as it looks like I would have to pay to use it on line, I have
> decided to opt for MySQL and PHP running on IIS. I know it is usual to run
> these on Apache, but I also need IIS on the same machine for my other
> sites,
> and as it should run PHP, I will give it a try.
>

Report · Jul 13, 2008

Murray *ACE* wrote:
> You can have both IIS and Apache on the same box, you know? IIS would
> be on port 80, and Apache on 8080, I believe.

Or vice-versa. Just as long as one is on 80 and the other is on a
different port, it doesn't matter.

--
David Powers, Adobe Community Expert
Author, "The Essential Guide to Dreamweaver CS3" (friends of ED)
Author, "PHP Solutions" (friends of ED)
http://foundationphp.com/

Report · Jul 13, 2008

Thanks David - I sent for your books. At the moment, I am trying to remove MS SQL server 2500. When I have succeeded I will read your books and set up PHP.

Report · Jul 18, 2008

Now for the feedback.
Bought David's book and followed the instructions for installing Apache - swayed by the book.
Removed all relevent programs, stopped the IIS server, turned off Norton, stopped all other programs.

Downloaded and installed Apache 2.2.9. first on port 80. When it did not work, I then repeated the process on port 8080.

Error message : The system cannot find the file specified : No installed Service named "Apache 2.2"

Hover on the Apache Icon - and see "no services installed" Click it and the Apache Service monitor opens with all but Services and Connect grayed out. Open Services and Apache is not listed.

Tried a manual start with no success. This looks like a bug in 2.29 as lots of other users are reporting it on the web. Or is it a mistake on my part? I followed all the default settings.

I will now delete the whole thing and try to use an earlier version.

Report · Jul 18, 2008

Finally a correction and an apology. All now works fine after I read the bit I had missed - that I should read the update to the PHP installer on Davids Website.
Now I even get an entry on the programs list for all the programs.
Thanks to all and apologies for not reading the book properly. And it is no longer crude - quite sleek actually!

Howard Walker

Upwards from Access

1 Correct answer