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Autoprefixer

Adobe Community Professional ,
May 10, 2018

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In the process of testing a code editor (IDE), I came across an Autoprefixer. Although this was a while back, I thought it important enough to share the experience with you and the importance of having this feature added to Dreamweaver. As a side note, because I use Sass with the correct add-on, prefixes for my projects are already added. This feature is for those that do not use pre/post compilers.

Set the Site Options

Write the code

And Save


Ben

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Autoprefixer

Adobe Community Professional ,
May 10, 2018

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In the process of testing a code editor (IDE), I came across an Autoprefixer. Although this was a while back, I thought it important enough to share the experience with you and the importance of having this feature added to Dreamweaver. As a side note, because I use Sass with the correct add-on, prefixes for my projects are already added. This feature is for those that do not use pre/post compilers.

Set the Site Options

Write the code

And Save


Ben

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May 10, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 10, 2018

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thanks Ben for the heads up on such a feature... what follow is not argue ... it is just a point of view

what I don't like on this type of mecanism, is that once applied, the CSS become verbose... and as far as I understand there is not way to get back to original file, because the new CSS generated overwrite the original one.

what I like in Post CSS or in task automator (depending on project) is the fact that original working files are not the same than the production ones. (personally I never used Sass for prefixing files)

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May 10, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 10, 2018

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what I don't like on this type of mecanism, is that once applied, the CSS become verbose... and as far as I understand there is not way to get back to original file, because the new CSS generated overwrite the original one.

I wholeheartedly agree with you there.

Using a task automator (let's invent this word) adds another process and Post CSS is not included in Dreamweaver, not that I am saying that either should be ignored because of that.

I prefer something that is automatic saying that it would be worthwhile arguing for a double save of the CSS like styles-orig.css and styles.css.​ Thanks for the idea.


Ben

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May 10, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 11, 2018

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arf arf... task automator... I don't know why I often use this words... for qualifying task runner...

I think that all the IDE task include in a process (for minifying, concatening, prefixing, removing unusued, ...)  should adopt a non destructive way... having in some folders development files... and in others folders production files....

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May 11, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 11, 2018

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BenPleysier  wrote

In the process of testing a code editor (IDE), I came across an Autoprefixer. Although this was a while back, I thought it important enough to share the experience with you and the importance of having this feature added to Dreamweaver. As a side note, because I use Sass with the correct add-on, prefixes for my projects are already added. This feature is for those that do not use pre/post compilers.

Set the Site Options

I guess that would be Wappler then?

This kind of thing has been around for years - Coda 2, to a certain extent, added some prefixes on save but not all. The question I ask is are all the prefixes built into the IDE or are they pulling the prefixes from an external source because IDEs can becaome outdated quit  fast as the prefixing that needs to be supported changes.

I think I would agree that there should be an option to add the final prefixes at stage when its convienient to the developer, which in turn could make a duplicate of the clean css file.

Something is better than nothing though. What I object to with build files just to include the prefixes is it just means an extra set of files to manage which is not always desriable.

At the moment I use Prepros which does have and option to add the prefixes at a time the developer chooses but it would sure be nice to have everyting in one IDE rather than everything splatted about all over the place.

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May 11, 2018 0
Mentor ,
May 11, 2018

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osgood_  wrote

I guess that would be Wappler then?

Thats the first mention of that app I seen in a while. I noticed they have now removed all the links for the crowdfunding from their main site, blog, etc. So maybe in twelve more full moons we will finally get to see it released to the public.

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May 11, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 11, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

osgood_   wrote

I guess that would be Wappler then?

So maybe in twelve more full moons we will finally get to see it released to the public.

Seems it was a much bigger project to manage than they thought going by their original timeline for beta product launch. Will it even see the light of day.

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May 11, 2018 0
Mentor ,
May 17, 2018

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osgood_  wrote

Will it even see the light of day.

Well if they keep to the new announcement, according to their main page, 1 week is now the official release date. So perhaps publicly people can check out the free or trial versions starting next week ?

Edit: 1 week not 1 day.

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May 17, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 17, 2018

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Just in time with the edit. Have a look here for those that have not read the article https://blog.wappler.io/officially-releasing-wappler-in-6-days/


Ben

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May 17, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 17, 2018

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I saw the 6 day announcement this morning.  But the official web site is red flagged by my AV/

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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May 17, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 17, 2018

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I was just about to say it looks impressively presented until I thought I'll watch a video......WTF is that voice over robot? I don't think this does the product any justice at all as it comes across as though no real human is behind this project.

I have no idea why they continue to have some robotic voice over their videos and its bloody annoying just like all their other videos.

Still it looks impressive apart from that so I may give it a whirl at some point. Probably not going to be my cup of tea as I dont particularly like the kitchen sink included in with the editor but it might an experience, good or bad.

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May 17, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 17, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

I saw the 6 day announcement this morning.  But the official web site is red flagged by my AV/

If you ever get there just make sure the sound on your comp is turned down.

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May 17, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 17, 2018

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osgood_  wrote

I have no idea why they continue to have some robotic voice over their videos and its bloody annoying just like all their other videos.


English obviously isn't the first language of the site developers. 

It's possible some very thick accents, or a total lack of speaking the language, has caused them to use text to voice bots for clarity's and/or the budget's sake?

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May 17, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 17, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Jon+Fritz+II  wrote

osgood_   wrote

I have no idea why they continue to have some robotic voice over their videos and its bloody annoying just like all their other videos.


English obviously isn't the first language of the site developers. 

It's possible some very thick accents, or a total lack of speaking the language, has caused them to use text to voice bots for clarity's and/or the budget's sake?

Could be but I watch dozens of youtube videos from developers based all over Europe that speak some English, a lot very good, and its a damn site more engaging, even if there are some minor problems with interpretation than a bloody dozy inhumane robot........so I dont really buy into that theory.

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May 17, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 11, 2018

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As I have been asking for this feature for years, I cannot see Dw bothering now.

Everything I think about autoprefixers and workflows I have already said in previous discussions, so no longer interested as I now have my own in CS6, and CC I will never use.

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May 11, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 17, 2018

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The real question is -

Why is Wappler better than Dw, or is it?

Given that-

Most if not all Wappler testers, are Dw users.

Why if  -

A number of Wappler testers are also members of Dw CAB or pre-release, then why have the ideas such as a stand-alone css autoprefixer never been supported, or included in Dw, was it lack of foresight or simply because those who objected to such features simple did not care.

What will/would Wappler replace -

Will Wappler replace Dw, especially for those who only have a single app subscription to CC for Dw?

Is Wappler more in-line with what an up-to-date version of Dw CS6 may have been?

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May 17, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 17, 2018

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Why is Wappler better than Dw, or is it?

At this stage it is not, it still misses a lot of functionality. I have found that I tend to use Wappler's Design view more than Code view, something I would not dream of when using DW.

A number of Wappler testers are also members of Dw CAB or pre-release, then why have the ideas such as a stand-alone css autoprefixer never been supported, or included in Dw, was it lack of foresight or simply because those who objected to such features simple did not care.

A rhetorical question?

Will Wappler replace Dw, especially for those who only have a single app subscription to CC for Dw?

No, Dreamweaver with DMXZone extensions will do the same as Wappler. The difference is that Wappler is a much faster and smoother application.

Is Wappler more in-line with what an up-to-date version of Dw CS6 may have been?

Another rhetorical question?

The main reason why DMXZone have chosen to go their own way is because they did not want to rely on Adobe for their future.

Having said that, they will continue to support Dreamweaver with their extensions which is good news for users of Dreamweaver. After all, it is the likes of DMXZone, PVII and Webassist that make Dreamweaver bearable.


Ben

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May 17, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 18, 2018

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BenPleysier  wrote

After all, it is the likes of DMXZone, PVII and Webassist that make Dreamweaver bearable.

Exactly why I could so easily walk away from it, without it affecting my workflow. So many are locked into an application as a concequence of being dependent on centric focused solutions.

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May 18, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 18, 2018

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BenPleysier  wrote

A number of Wappler testers are also members of Dw CAB or pre-release, then why have the ideas such as a stand-alone css autoprefixer never been supported, or included in Dw, was it lack of foresight or simply because those who objected to such features simple did not care.

A rhetorical question?


Is Wappler more in-line with what an up-to-date version of Dw CS6 may have been?

Another rhetorical question?

The main reason why DMXZone have chosen to go their own way is because they did not want to rely on Adobe for their future.

Not really rhetorical.

With the first question, I was wondering why Wappler included such features and Dw decided not to. I know that is a question only the Dw managment can really answer, but when such things as a stand-alone css autoprefixer are in the top 10 extensions for Brackets, (often above pre/post-processor extensions) it makes the question important.

As for the second point, Dw moved away from server-side after CS6, so I was wondering if Wappler was trying to 'pick-up' the ex Dw users who are looking for a program that enables them to use server-side and databases in one program, without having to buy extensions.

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May 18, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 18, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

As for the second point, Dw moved away from server-side after CS6, so I was wondering if Wappler was trying to 'pick-up' the ex Dw users who are looking for a program that enables them to use server-side and databases in one program, without having to buy extensions.

Wasnt that what made DW 'unique' in the web-editor market or should I say the developers at Macromedia where at least trying to be instrumental in bringing something to a crowded market place which in subsequent years Adobe have continued to trash.

Glad they did trash the program or else I would probably have never have moved on from my tiny boxed world when I was using DW.

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May 18, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 18, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

Dw moved away from server-side after CS6, so I was wondering if Wappler was trying to 'pick-up' the ex Dw users who are looking for a program that enables them to use server-side and databases in one program, without having to buy extensions.

I think that this will answer your question. The Pro package for Business is the one that I have chosen. Freelancers and students can save themselves a heap by taking the $199/year package.


Ben

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May 18, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 18, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

As for the second point, Dw moved away from server-side after CS6, so I was wondering if Wappler was trying to 'pick-up' the ex Dw users who are looking for a program that enables them to use server-side and databases in one program, without having to buy extensions.

Server-side and database is only included in the pro-version of wappler so no change there then...............anyone who wants a quick way of speaking to their db is still going to have to buy into an extension or possibly extensions.

Seems a bit of a huge hike from 99 to 400 just to get db connection by default. I dont suppose many need the other stuff which comes with the pro version. Maybe should have had another version between 99 and 400 which included the db stuff.

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May 18, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 18, 2018

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The Basic version does include JSON modules. I don't think that it will be too hard to convert MySQL data to JSON. Just a thought.


Ben

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May 18, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 18, 2018

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I wonder if there is a discount for pensioners? LOL

I will definatly give the free version a try, as code support is the most important item for me. As for cost I don't think it is excessive when compared to a Dw subscription + the cost of extensions. If it is true that the majority of Dw users are those using it for their own personal or small business usage, then Wappler maybe a serious alternative to the full CC package, as all that such users would require from the Adobe products is Photoshop, which can be purchased for $10 per month, (photography sub).

for such users Wappler + Photoshop would be about $200 per year, compared to the $650 per year for CC. Yes you do get access to all the other Adobe products, but if they are not required!

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May 18, 2018 0
Mentor ,
May 18, 2018

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At that point they might be better off with Affinity Photo $50 & Affinity Designer $50, and move away completely. 😉

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May 18, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 18, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

At that point they might be better off with Affinity Photo $50 & Affinity Designer $50, and move away completely. 😉

Good point.

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May 18, 2018 0
Mentor ,
May 18, 2018

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BenPleysier  wrote

Why is Wappler better than Dw, or is it?

At this stage it is not, it still misses a lot of functionality. I have found that I tend to use Wappler's Design view more than Code view, something I would not dream of when using DW.

What are the glaring missing functionalities?

Aside from the integrated Bootstrap support, how does the apps entire workflow and features work with vanilla HTML5, other frameworks etc. ? Does it lose various integrated capabilities in such cases and degrade concerning visual features?

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May 18, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 18, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

What are the glaring missing functionalities?

Aside from the integrated Bootstrap support, how does the apps entire workflow and features work with vanilla HTML5, other frameworks etc. ? Does it lose various integrated capabilities in such cases and degrade concerning visual features?

At this stage, I'm more interested in if it demonstrates a future for the code editor and the workflow(s) it offers.

At the moment Brackets offers nothing as a workflow, and at the other end of the scale VS Pro is too complexed unless you are working on a project.

Dw is no longer a product worthy of serious usage, or consideration, unless one has invested a lot of money in extensions, (yes I know this is the Dw forum, and as a CS6 user!).

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May 18, 2018 0
Mentor ,
May 18, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

At this stage, I'm more interested in if it demonstrates a future for the code editor and the workflow(s) it offers.

Agreed, me too. But I am interested in how the overall features handle non-bootstrap sites since that seems to be a emphasis at this early stage.

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May 18, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 18, 2018

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This is hard for me to answer because I do not have the free version. My thoughts are that the free version is the same as the current Dreamweaver.

If I create a new document and do not apply App Connect, I get this option

When I attach App Connect to the document

I get the following options

Some of these options will only be available in the paid for versions. This is as far as the point and click will take you if you choose to use your own framework, meaning that you will need to hand-code.

The last image also highlights one of the missing functions, namely an HTML Table.


Ben

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May 18, 2018 0
Mentor ,
May 18, 2018

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BenPleysier  wrote

This is hard for me to answer because I do not have the free version. My thoughts are that the free version is the same as the current Dreamweaver.

Thanks for the response Ben.

I suppose much will come to light in a short weeks time, with many candid reviews and comments occurring here on the forum shortly thereafter. Glad that its finally seeing the light of day regarding the public, it will be interesting to see the feedback from people.

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Mentor ,
May 25, 2018

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Surprisingly, given Wappler's release yesterday, the feedback is absent from the Dreamweaver crowd. I thought there may be some lively discussions from, pziecina​ , osgood_ , etc., after the many other previous talks over time leading up to its release. There was a bit of talk in the Muse forum by rayek.elfin​ , but otherwise I am surprised by the silence and absence of discussion here in this forum by current and former Dreamweaver users.

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May 25, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 25, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

Surprisingly, given Wappler's release yesterday, the feedback is absent from the Dreamweaver crowd. I thought there may be some lively discussions from, pziecina , osgood_  , etc., after the many other previous talks over time leading up to its release. There was a Re: Adobe Muse EOL announcement - Alternatives to Adobe Muse? in the Muse forum by rayek.elfin  , but otherwise I am surprised by the silence and absence of discussion here in this forum by current and former Dreamweaver users.

I've been following things but I have no urgency to test drive at the moment before others provide some feedback.

One user, who posts in this forum sometimes,  is already finding lots of absent things they cant do..............like......

There appears to be no page protection for pages that need to be secure if you're not signed in as an admin.

He can't attach a link to text to evoke a modal window....

all quite simple things which I would expect a front-end developer to be able to accomplish with their eyes shut..........so is Wappler all that its developers claim it is ........an environment where you never need to go into code view.

Im afraid most times these first releases are quite often disappointing or at best acceptable because the user of such product can't do any better themselves and lacks the skill to do so.

I would only use it myself as an editor and not have the necessity or need to use the other amatuer aimed components and extensions it ships with because I will quickly find faults, or at least restricted options.

I suspect it has a market and I suspect it will evolve over a number of months as things come to light and are put right or included, which are easily misssed by beta testers.

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May 25, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 25, 2018

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My feedback.

I tested it with a friend who is not a coder, (can code, but nothing beyond the very basics) just to get a different perspective, (she had also purchased Wappler so not the free version). Also please remember we did the test with a product we had never used before. All we did was build a basic rwd page using flexbox, header, content (5 items), sidebar, footer, so nothing complexed.

For me Wappler is still a 'work in progress', simply because when using the code editor it felt slow and just like Dw's 'Brackets' code editor, unrefined. That said I had the feeling that it is not aimed at the coder, as much of what I was looking for was not to be found, (the autoprefixer in VS code and Brackets, is better).

My friend however, (remember not a coder) enjoyed every minute of producing a bootstrap 4 page, and found the visual layout method of working interesting and easy, with the UI easy to use, and felt comfortable using Wappler after a couple of hours, (she had watched a couple of videos before using it). Her one complaint came when she tried to change the page to a php page just to add the current year dynamically in the footer, as she found no visual method of doing this, (may exist but she could not find it).

I found trying to use the animations 'panel' very frustrating and very limited in comparison to the possibilities offered by hand coding (in another editor), and my co-tester could not even use it, (she has no idea how transform/transitions/animations work).

The final point is that more documentation and tutorials are desperatly required, especially if they wish 'casual coders' to use Wappler.

My/our overall impression, is that Wappler shows promise for the visual developer who does not want to dive too deeply into code. Like the 1st release of anything we expected it to have problems, but for the casual developer who develops the occasional site, or maintains only their own site, then yes, Wappler shows promise and is probably alread better than Dw. but it is probably best to wait for the next version.

For the coder, don't bother, VS code or even Brackets offers more, and are also free.

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May 25, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 25, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

For the coder, don't bother, VS code or even Brackets offers more, and are also free.

That's kind of the impression I've had even before the product was released. I think these kinds of products are great if you want to spend the day clicking around panels and being limited to what the options in those panels can achieved -  that for some, with no real interested in coding, is a real big step forward as they could probably do very little without apps like that available to them.

What makes me smile is when I sees someone post in the Wappler forum saying ' I cant go any further until this or that is introduced into Wappler' I mean come on use your brain at least once in your lunchtime. These program turn you in a robot and when you hit an issue you go into meltdown, very quickly.

But its not for a coder, would be like taking huge steps backwards.

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May 25, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
May 25, 2018

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I don't think Wappler is aimed at the web developer, but at the casual web designer who is not looking to create anything too complexed.

The problem is that such users are looking for a simple way to insert everything, as the inability of my co-tester demonstrated when she was looking for something to click just to insert the php code for the current year.

That said, it is the 1st release, so anything missing or not working how one thinks it should, could just be that the people making suggestions are only thinking of what they require, and not the wide range of users that Wappler is aiming for, (visual, click and its done users to those who know code but prefer a visual ui).

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May 25, 2018 0
Mentor ,
May 25, 2018

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I also found that comment interesting on their forum, as I had thought that person was part of the private beta. So it seemed odd that such an omission is now being voiced at this stage verse being mentioned previously.

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May 25, 2018 0
osgood_ LATEST
LEGEND ,
May 25, 2018

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Who knows, l might need such a workflow when my brain turns to dust in a few years. The less coders that come through the ranks the better for me as l can charge more for including a current php year tag.......and even more to trigger a modal window,.soon that will be a thousand pounds and two thousand pounds respectively the way things are shaping up out there any think more complex well lll demand a pad in the Carribbean and a personal yacht.

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May 25, 2018 1