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DW, vs Coda, vs Pinegrow etc?

Enthusiast ,
Sep 22, 2018

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My old DW CS3 is broken, but I'm used to the DW interface for 10 years.

I don't want to pay the extorionist/ Price gauging Adobe ($240 year after year), so I peeked to today at Pinegrow and Coda. Coda looked a lot more like DW. It's preview was normal whereas Pinegrow's preview was wacky looking.

But I did not see an equivalent Design view, in Coda. Is Coda the most DW  looking of the alternatives or is there a closer software to DW?

I do pay Adobe $10 every month for PS -- the photographer bundle. Is there a better deal I can get on DW, as I currently subscribe to that?  Or with student rate?  Or some idea how to get  DW CC better priced than the overpriced standard price?

Coda is not for you. Its as its name suggests for coders. That being said its well old, released in 2012 and only minor improvements have  been included since. It was the number 1 web editor for a few years but the makers let the grass grow under its feet and turned their attention to producing games.

I still find it an excellent editor for coding but its live view doesnt support flexbox without a lot of prefixes. Its showing its age now. My advice would be to ignore it, it also is not a visual editor. 'Coda next' should be released at some poiint we have been informed and is currently in production but no news as to when its official release will be, if at all. The developers seem to get easily distracted and many of Codas users have since moved to other more up to date solutions as a result.

Look at a web editor called Wappler, that is a visual editor along the same lines ss Pinegrow but with more front and backend functionality. If you dont require database options you can pick up the education basic version for 49 dollars a year.

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DW, vs Coda, vs Pinegrow etc?

Enthusiast ,
Sep 22, 2018

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My old DW CS3 is broken, but I'm used to the DW interface for 10 years.

I don't want to pay the extorionist/ Price gauging Adobe ($240 year after year), so I peeked to today at Pinegrow and Coda. Coda looked a lot more like DW. It's preview was normal whereas Pinegrow's preview was wacky looking.

But I did not see an equivalent Design view, in Coda. Is Coda the most DW  looking of the alternatives or is there a closer software to DW?

I do pay Adobe $10 every month for PS -- the photographer bundle. Is there a better deal I can get on DW, as I currently subscribe to that?  Or with student rate?  Or some idea how to get  DW CC better priced than the overpriced standard price?

Coda is not for you. Its as its name suggests for coders. That being said its well old, released in 2012 and only minor improvements have  been included since. It was the number 1 web editor for a few years but the makers let the grass grow under its feet and turned their attention to producing games.

I still find it an excellent editor for coding but its live view doesnt support flexbox without a lot of prefixes. Its showing its age now. My advice would be to ignore it, it also is not a visual editor. 'Coda next' should be released at some poiint we have been informed and is currently in production but no news as to when its official release will be, if at all. The developers seem to get easily distracted and many of Codas users have since moved to other more up to date solutions as a result.

Look at a web editor called Wappler, that is a visual editor along the same lines ss Pinegrow but with more front and backend functionality. If you dont require database options you can pick up the education basic version for 49 dollars a year.

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Sep 22, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 22, 2018

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Coda is not for you. Its as its name suggests for coders. That being said its well old, released in 2012 and only minor improvements have  been included since. It was the number 1 web editor for a few years but the makers let the grass grow under its feet and turned their attention to producing games.

I still find it an excellent editor for coding but its live view doesnt support flexbox without a lot of prefixes. Its showing its age now. My advice would be to ignore it, it also is not a visual editor. 'Coda next' should be released at some poiint we have been informed and is currently in production but no news as to when its official release will be, if at all. The developers seem to get easily distracted and many of Codas users have since moved to other more up to date solutions as a result.

Look at a web editor called Wappler, that is a visual editor along the same lines ss Pinegrow but with more front and backend functionality. If you dont require database options you can pick up the education basic version for 49 dollars a year.

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Sep 22, 2018 1
Enthusiast ,
Sep 22, 2018

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Thanks Osgood, visual editor you mean what I'm calling Design View?

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Sep 22, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 22, 2018

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Correct, Coda does not  have a design view.

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Sep 22, 2018 1
Mentor ,
Sep 22, 2018

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larry4545  wrote

My old DW CS3 is broken

Just curious -- Is that due to OS upgrade compatibility, licensing errors, or due to it no longer being compliment with web standards ?

larry4545  wrote

Pinegrow's preview was wacky looking.

Again just curious -- concerning what aspects ? Rendering PHP? Other ?

osgood_  wrote

Look at a web editor called Wappler, that is a visual editor along the same lines as Pinegrow but with more front and backend functionality.

That's perhaps with mixed reviews even by Wappler users, concerning the frontend side of things. I've noticed their users themselves bring up Pinegrow a lot comparatively.

So I guess many aspects going either way (< >) can be subjective, depending on users, criteria, features expectations, etc. Which is generally the case with any application and user experience.

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Sep 22, 2018 1
Enthusiast ,
Sep 22, 2018

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don't know WJ, just broke, but 10 years old now.. but with High Sierra..? did 2 post, it wont to change links sitewide anymore. And in a year wont work with mac at all.

Just peeked at Wappler, nicer than Coda, in that yes design view.

But no split view? And where is was in equivalent of property bar to check links and fonts? Anyway to change to code view to white background? What is this all new apps do black background, don't get that.

new DW CC is actually not so easy an interface as it once one.

Osgood: Geez per year? I'm trying to get away from yearly extortion bills. Darn.

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Sep 22, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Sep 22, 2018

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larry4545  wrote

don't know WJ, just broke, but 10 years old now.. but with High Sierra..? did 2 post, it wont to change links sitewide anymore.

Ah yes, I see your recent thread:

DW says no links, can't find when hundreds

Did this occurrence or breakage follow an OS update to High Sierra ?

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Sep 22, 2018 0
Enthusiast ,
Sep 22, 2018

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WJ I have no idea, but I think I noticed this before HIgh Sierra, I'm completely tapped out on it, but if you want to give it a stab please do.

Osgood/ WJ, propriety coding..??

I not flipping.. just have one simple old style html site so really old DW CS3 ver. 8 or 9 I think. is still ok.

With Wappler can't I adjust simple html code, change links, fonts that sort of basic stuff ok? (no proprietary code, normal html code everyone uses like an old copy of DW)  And also change links sitewide, find/ replace, just basic basic stuff? And maybe free community version would suffice?

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Sep 22, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 22, 2018

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Proprietory coding means the program has its own unique way of producing the code particularly if you use its front end javascript framwork as anyone that buys into Wappler will quickly end up doing.. This may be an issue, not for you as a developer, but your cllients if they ever need to find another developer to update/manage their website for some reason.

So is it ethical to use such a workflow or should you consider your clients needs even if they choose not to use your services in the future or you are unable to continue to manage their website. Personally l think l feel better using open source code as there is a larger echo system and the client would not have too much difficulty in finding someone who could work with the existing code.

If you just have the one site and dont want to do anything fancy then the free community edition may well suite your requirements. Download it and give it a go.

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Sep 22, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Sep 22, 2018

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larry4545  wrote

  • WJ I have no idea, but I think I noticed this before HIgh Sierra
  • have one simple old style html site so really old DW CS3 ver. 8 or 9 I think. is still ok.

CS3 shipped in 2007, that was back in OS X 10.5 days.

Your best bet would have been if CS3 was important to your workflow, to run an older OS version on a separate partition for it. Or have a separate machine running an older OS X. But by trying to run old software on news OS's you easily begin to encounter all kinds of weird glitches, this could be one of them, or some other incompatibility.

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Sep 22, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 23, 2018

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W_J_T  a écrit

Your best bet would have been if CS3 was important to your workflow, to run an older OS version on a separate partition for it. Or have a separate machine running an older OS X.

Using a virtual machine is a better way to go, it's easiest and simplest... don't you think ?

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Sep 23, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Sep 23, 2018

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It's another option certainly, yet it too depends on machine, setup, needed workflow, etc. Many practical options abound, but only the OP can determine what is best for them based upon their own criteria and setup.

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Sep 23, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Sep 23, 2018

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A couple of things to consider:

You can set up a virtual machine on your Mac. Install the last version of OS X on which CS3 worked. Install CS3. You're good to go. If what you want is to be able to run your trusted old configuration, and given the state of CC, it is a wise decision, then you can refocus your quest for to support to learning how to set up a virtual machine the way you need it. As for Adobe, if you own CS3, then Adobe is obligated to issue you a new "key" with which to run it. So, for that, simply contact Adobe support directly. This forum is not an Adobe support channel, so make sure you contact them directly.

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Sep 23, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 23, 2018

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Al,

CS3 activation servers were taken offline a while back.   Adobe support cannot help because CS3 is EOL.

Larry4545 will have to obtain a new installer and serial number that does not require activation.

Complete instructions are in the correct answer below.

Re-activating CS3 (Updated)

Also, instructions for installing CS3 on a Mac using Terminal.

Installing Creative Suite on macOS 10.12 (Sierra)

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Sep 23, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Sep 23, 2018

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I think it's incumbent on us to provide accurate information as much as possible. Firstly, I am running CS3 on Windows 10. Secondly, if someone owns a CS3 license then Adobe must provide a means to install it on a system that is capable of running it. Reaching a script-based talking head in India might not provide accurate information. My position is that Adobe is legally bound to provide an activation number. If they can't, then Adobe needs to allow open installation. It's really that simple. I'll let you know how I make out next time I need to install CS3, but I GUARANTEE you that I will get it installed.

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Sep 23, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 23, 2018

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Where did I say you could not install it?  Adobe has provided the means to obtain a new installer and a new serial number that does not require activation.

As an ACP, Al, you should know about the current status of CS3.  Please don't tell people to use their old installation disks, it won't work.  And please don't tell people to go to Support because they won't get any.  They will be directed to the download page cited in the link I posted above. 

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Sep 23, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Sep 23, 2018

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I honestly only saw the first sentence of your current post. Either my eyes failed me, or you edited your post to add something Honest to goodness, I read your post before and came away with the impression you were telling the poste that they could not use CS3 at all.

As an ACP, by the way, I am obligated to be proficient helping within my area of expertise, which is CSS and the power of extensions. I'll leave the rest of it to you, because you are really good at it.

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Sep 23, 2018 0
Enthusiast ,
Sep 23, 2018

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I'm OP, CS3 is wonderful, pre - clutter great interface. I love it. It's running on High Sierra but now , change sitewide . links wont work.

Adobe wont care/ help correct? Their model is to hook you on exorbitant subscription model.

Also, I just saw CC 2018. Much more obtuse and cluttered than CS3. Very dark and  ugly interface.

So I'm out of luck correct?

And CS3 wont work with next upgrade OS as not 64 bit. So over right?

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Sep 23, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 23, 2018

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larry4545  wrote

Adobe wont care/ help correct? Their model is to hook you on exorbitant subscription model.

No.  Adobe cannot help you with 10 year old software.   Keep using it if you want but do so at your own risk.  For best results, install CS3 on a Virtual Machine with an older OS.

larry4545  wrote

Also, I just saw CC 2018. Much more obtuse and cluttered than CS3. Very dark and  ugly interface.

DW CC has been completely rebuilt to better support modern computers & web technologies . From Preferences, you can pick your preferred interface colors.  Dark, light or something in-between.   The same goes for Code Colors.  See screenshot.

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Sep 23, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Sep 23, 2018

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Take a step back first.

The type of topic you started tends to bring about "interesting" tangential conversations. Here is the bottom line, so you do not have to wade through all of the posts:

1. You need to set up a virtual machine on your Mac and install the last version of OS X that ran CS3 for you.

2. If you have problems installing CS3, you need to contact Adobe via the page Nancy posted:

Re-activating CS3 (Updated)

That should get you to your happy place. If you have problems, my advice would be to start a new topic with a subject describing the topic. For example:

"How to Reactivate Dreamweaver CS3"

If you have problems installing a Virtual Machine, Apple should be able to get you sorted.

Good luck!

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Sep 23, 2018 1
Enthusiast ,
Sep 23, 2018

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thanks Nancy/ Al.

Nancy,

What about just rebooting into a an old OS with thumbdrive, would that be as good as virtual?

if notk What OS and how to get the OS?  Maybe one from 4-5 years ago would be best to be safe. (Mac)/ and what virtual do you like?

BTW notice that Blu Griffon can have the full code page next to full design page, nice, even better than DW's split view. Can DW do that now?

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Sep 23, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 23, 2018

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#1 I'm not a Mac user.  But I don't think you can boot up from a USB drive.   See CS3 System Requirements

Dreamweaver system requirements

#2 Best Virtual Machines

The Best Virtual Machines | Digital Trends

#3 Side-by-side viewing and editing in DW CC is much improved over Creative Suite.   Below an example of a CSS Flexbox layout in Split (Code / Live) View.   Get a free 7 Day Trial of DW CC and give it a whirl.   Free Dreamweaver | Download Adobe Dreamweaver CC full version

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Sep 23, 2018 0
Enthusiast ,
Sep 23, 2018

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thanks Nancy,

ok I went to menu and did see (yes have the trial cc), split vertically. Much nicer, so I went back to CS3 to see if I've been missing that option all these years and I did not see a split vertical there offered. Did I missi it, maybe it's there is CS3 but ..?

Final on that: Is there way to get the code on the left and the design on the right?

Final, any deal I can get from Adobe being a current photographer subscriber, or some student something... such a rip at $240 year after year, you are paying it?

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Sep 23, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 23, 2018

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#1 I don't know anything about inner workings of CS3, never used it.

#2  Go to VIEW menu.  Select Split >  choose from options.

#3 There is no additional discount for Photography Plan subscribers.

Eligible Teachers and Students get  60% off the ALL APPS Plan. 

Adobe Creative Cloud Education FAQ

If you qualify, students and teachers pay just $19.99/mo the first year and $29.99/mo after that.

NOTE:  12 month commitment required.  If you cancel early, there is a penalty fee.

Creative Cloud pricing and membership plans | Adobe Creative Cloud

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Sep 23, 2018 0
Enthusiast ,
Sep 23, 2018

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I saw split vertical, what saying, unless someone here can say, I don't see it on CS3 sadly. only horizontal. thanks.

I thought everyone pays $20 month for DW which is outrageous. $240 a year, year after year for web editing software???

So overpriced.  Used to be about what... $100 to upgrade every 3 years?

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Sep 23, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Sep 23, 2018

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ALsp  wrote

Take a step back first. The type of topic you started tends to bring about "interesting" tangential conversations. Here is the bottom line, so you do not have to wade through all of the posts:

Interestingly however, that no one took a step back and called into question, using 11 year old software in his previous thread (already mentioned above) as a possible point of issue. I guess something possibly worthwhile came out of all these posts you feel are inadequate to wade through.

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Sep 23, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Sep 23, 2018

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You really do like to fan fires, don't you?

CS3 works perfectly fine for someone with coding experience. Perhaps you have an English language issue, but the posts I was thinking about are not inadequate. I believe I used the word tangential. But, blather comes to mind, too.

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Sep 23, 2018 2
Mentor ,
Sep 23, 2018

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Oh geez. Yet another instance of your self proclaimed superiority towards everyone else whenever you step into a thread. Is this too gonna be another time when you get flustered and run off also. Each are historically reoccurring with you, both are marginally amusing.

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Sep 23, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Sep 23, 2018

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Why would I run off? And people like you don't fluster me, you sadden me. And, I'm sorry to say that if this is where you find your amusement... well, I don't think this needs to go any further. In any event, I hope Larry found some help and some useful suggestions to get his situation squared away. As for you, all I can add is that this is a Dreamweaver forum, and I'm pretty sure trying to keep topics relevant to Dreamweaver is not a bad thing. Perhaps you should gather some like-minded people and petition Adobe to create an anti-Dreamweaver forum. That might be a good use of your time and it could get you a happy place to hang out in.

And remember, it's not nice to personally insult people... even if you think they think they're superior to you.

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Sep 23, 2018 0
W_J_T LATEST
Mentor ,
Sep 23, 2018

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I knew you would come forth with more drivel.

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Sep 23, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 22, 2018

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Wappler is obviously a lot younger than Pinegrow, released only a few months ago, improvements will follow rapidly -  will Pinegrow be as pro active in introducing all the back end options and modern front end javascriot bindings into its editor?

Does one really want to use proprietory coding which Wappler produces....thers a lot to consider.

49 dollars annually seems reasonable to me if youre flipping out a few static websites a year.

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Sep 22, 2018 1
Mentor ,
Sep 22, 2018

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osgood_  wrote

Wappler is obviously a lot younger than Pinegrow, released only a few months ago, improvements will follow rapidly -  will Pinegrow be as pro active in introducing all the back end options and modern front end javascriot bindings into its editor?

I have no idea, the next major release is version 5 and have no idea what it will bring? Will Wappler, likewise soon support Wordpress, Foundation, various Visual Tools, and other features like Pinrgrow? Like previously stated above its all subjective.

But it seems each is on similar yet somewhat different paths, time will tell with each app and others.

osgood_  wrote

Does one really want to use proprietory coding which Wappler produces....thers a lot to consider.

That's a pretty big one for coders, fronted and backed alike with all the extensions and proprietary code baked in, backend especially.

osgood_  wrote

49 dollars annually seems reasonable to me if youre flipping out a few static websites a year.

Comparatively (cost wise), for individuals Pinegrow Pro is $99.

Pinegrow continues to work even if you choose to not update after the year of included updates. If you do desire to keep current the renewal cost is 50% of the original purchase cost. You can always use the last version you owned perpetually if you don't choose to keep it updated. With Wappler if you don't keep current with the subscription model all the extensions disable back to the free version of features to my knowledge, so that too is something to consider.

Of course I agree trivial costs should be easily justified in the course of business operations, for singular or multiple tools.

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Sep 22, 2018 0
Enthusiast ,
Sep 22, 2018

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GUYS I DON'T HAVE CLIENTS! HELP!

I just a freelance photographer working on one simple old html site of mine, yikes.

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Sep 22, 2018 0
Enthusiast ,
Sep 22, 2018

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Will reask, none of this got answered, got lost somehow in over complexes issues. Please keep it simple

HEre are my question again from OP of thread.

With Wappler can't I adjust simple html code, change links, fonts that sort of basic stuff ok? (no proprietary code, normal html code everyone uses like an old copy of DW)  And also change links sitewide, find/ replace, just basic basic stuff? And maybe free community version would suffice?

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Sep 22, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Sep 22, 2018

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I think that is where DW is failing and has become too bloody minded to see why its on its last legs and continuing to dwindle in popularity - its too expensive for what it currently offers and theire is no loyalty shown to its repeat customers in terms of  a discounted pricing structure for them.

I also use php storm, another code editor, where you can continue to use the last version you purchased plus you get significant discounts each year if you continue to support the developers. If smaller companies can do it so can Adobe.

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Sep 22, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Sep 22, 2018

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Its free so download it and open your site, see what happens and if you are able to edit it to your liking.

Or roll back your OS X to a version where CS3 works and is not broken. You never answered my question above about the Pinegrow preview, but assumedly your site is pretty darn old.

Provide a link to your site?

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Sep 22, 2018 1
LEGEND ,
Sep 22, 2018

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Yes, the free version of Wappler can do all that you require but dont expect it to be exactly like DW, its a different editor and like all editors they are not equal. Wapplers coding environment is one of the poorest lve experienced but its not a code editor, its a visual editor so very little condideration has been allocated to the coding environment because the vision of the developers is 'no coding is necessary

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Sep 22, 2018 1
Enthusiast ,
Sep 22, 2018

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WJ rolling back will be to tedious would not know how to do that. And then in a year, I'd have to boot into it. I suppose I could, let me know know to do that. I think then just put that OS onto a thumb drive and boot in?  Tedious but I guess could be done?

Ok let's say even OS before Sierra, get it onto a thumbdrive, I'll try.

Osgood: Ok so free wappler, "community version",  for visual editing, previews etc, what other programs are good in conjunction I should look at?

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Sep 22, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Sep 23, 2018

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I still don't understand why you choose to not respond regarding your initial comment on Pinegrow preview issues with your site. As stated above its $99 and no subscription, yet you keep complaining about the yearly cost of Dreamweaver, etc?

Likewise you wont share a link to your site so others can see what it is you are dealing with, so we can advise you on possibilities moving forward. Maybe moving forward is easier then holding onto the past, and in the end better to do so. You said you are a freelance photographer with one site. How big is your site (# of pages), what is the make up and complexity of it, how often do you actually make edits and updates on this singular site you need to work with?

larry4545  wrote

GUYS I DON'T HAVE CLIENTS! I just a freelance photographer working on one simple old html site of mine, yikes.

In the end, you just need to make a decision, take action one way or another.

past-future.jpg

As you said, you are only dealing with one site which is your own, not multiple sites or clients.

Make a decision  <-- | --> and get back to enjoying your photography skills and work.

I mean how long do you plan to hold onto your old site without updating it to modern standards and sticking with CS3, etc ? Maybe its time to consider moving forward with your site and software. Perhaps the universe is telling you now is the time do so.

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Sep 23, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 22, 2018

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Larry4545,

Try BlueGriffon.  You can try the free version at no risk.  If you ilke what you see and you want the extras, you can buy a basic license for 75 Euros.

BlueGriffon 

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Sep 22, 2018 1
Enthusiast ,
Sep 22, 2018

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Thanks Nancy will peek at it. Even CC DW 2018 is not what I remember and am used to.. black background, hard to deal with, boy love CS3 so easy and more intuitive.

What think of WPs idea of trying to stay with it? With old OS.. ? And what think of Blu G vs Wappler

Blu looks cool, you can bring up full code and design side by side, but where is property bar I used to for fonts/ and links?

Also, the full site is not there, you have to navigate to just one page?

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Sep 22, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Sep 22, 2018

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I think you'll be hard pressed to find the Site Management features of DW in any other code editor.  That's why I keep using DW.

HTML fonts are deprecated for many, many years.  These days we use CSS to style content.  If you're using legacy code from 10 years ago, you may have other problems that cannot be overcome until you fix errors and update your code to modern web standards.

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Sep 22, 2018 0
Enthusiast ,
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Site management is very general term.

So I'll reask question for others to jump in hopefully.

Those links are so general too, I bought a 600 page for CSS, and made it to page 40- way to boring and grueling for me. but I do  hire people who make CSS pages that I edit later...

I'll ask again for others (about 4 specific questions not answered and info given I did not ask for). :

What think of  WPs idea of trying to stay with CS3? With old OS.. ? And what think of Blu G vs Wappler?

Blu looks cool, you can bring up full code and design side by side, but where is property bar I used to for fonts/ and links?

Also, the full site is not there, you have to navigate to just one page ( or maybe they show the full site when you buy the license?

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Sep 22, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Sep 22, 2018

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As already asked above, provide a link to your site for us to look at.

You, yourself need to try the apps and see if they fit your needs. No one here can properly advise you based upon your own abilities and desires for a certain user experience, only you can determine that. Simply try the various apps, trials, demos, etc., and find out which if any work for your needs.

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Sep 22, 2018 1
LEGEND ,
Sep 23, 2018

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A little old but similar to the pre CC versions of Dw is -

http://westciv.com/style_master/index.html

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Sep 23, 2018 0